Yesterday I was playing on vassal with precision Strike and my opponent and I had a Mild Disagreement.

I assumed that precision Strike took effect during the Attackers Modify dice Step (before defense tokens, after roll) but he thought it took place during the resolve critical step(after defense tokens are spent)

We rolled for it and ended up useing my interpretation but for future reference who is correct?

The Pertinent part of the Card involved is:

Special Rule: When a squadron with Bomber or a ship is attacking, it may spend 1 die with a "Hit" icon to flip 1 random facedown damage card on the defender faceup.

No inherent timing is specified, so we jump to:

RRG, Page 5, "Effect Use and Timing"


• An effect that modifies attack dice can only be resolved during the “Resolve Attacks Effects” step of an attack unless another timing is specified.

So that's Part 3 of the Attack, which includes "Modify Dice", and happens Before Defense Tokens are Spent in Step 4.

And yes, RRG, Page 7, "Modifying Dice"

• Spend: When a die or die icon is spent, remove that die from the attack pool.

SPEND is indeed a way you Modify Dice, so the Dice Modification Step - Part 3 of an Attack - Is most Appropriate.

Conclusion: Spending the Hit to Flip a Card on the defender from Face Down to Face Up happens during the Modify Dice step, Simultaniously with Spending Accuracies to stop Defense Tokens, and occurs Before Defense Tokens are actually Spent. Ergo, if you flip the Crit that says the Defender must Discard a Defense Token, or Cannot Spend Exhausted Defense Tokens, that will take effect Immediately

Great =) that's what I thought

Yesterday I was playing on vassal with precision Strike and my opponent and I had a Mild Disagreement.

I assumed that precision Strike took effect during the Attackers Modify dice Step (before defense tokens, after roll) but he thought it took place during the resolve critical step(after defense tokens are spent)

We rolled for it and ended up useing my interpretation but for future reference who is correct?

You were right, he was wrong.

Edit: Precision Strike vs. Fickle Red Dice can really hurt... either they roll good and really hurt you... or they roll bad and just spend their lone dice to hurt you anyway. Makes me so sad

I have a related question, that I think this post answers but want to run it past some others before I argue it during a match:

If I am running Precision Strike, I can flip the card and get the token during an attack that also the destroys the ship, correct?

That is, enemy ship has one hull left. I roll three hits. I spend one to flip a card (and thus get the token), he braces to one hit (from the two hits still remaining), and takes his last hull damage and is eliminated.

So I get both the victory token and the points.

Yes. You get the Points for every Card that was either " Dealt" or " Flipped" Face Up during that attack .

So you can even roll, say, Hit, Hit, Crit... Spend a Hit to Flip one face up, have him Brace down to 2, and if that last card gets through - Resolve a standard Critical effect for a Face up card, and walk away with TWO victory Tokens...

Even if it was their last ship - remember that the game does not end immediately anymore, it ends at the end of the Round ... So there's plenty of time to cop everything...

And if they have Rieekan.... Man, you should see how many cards that can be Dealt out and Flipped face up when you've got a whole Bomber Wing unloading Dice into it after it has been destroyed ....

Gladiator's and MC30's with Assault Proton Torpedoes and an extra hit can get 30 po8nts a turn. . .

60. Double arcs, crit, flip.

And if they have Rieekan.... Man, you should see how many cards that can be Dealt out and Flipped face up when you've got a whole Bomber Wing unloading Dice into it after it has been destroyed ....

I thought in Armada we stopped dealing damage cards to destroyed ships?

Flipping existing cards up should work just fine, but are you sure that damage cards could still be dealt to it after it has been destroyed?

Flipping existing cards up should work just fine, but are you sure that damage cards could still be dealt to it after it has been destroyed?

Normally its because you Remove the Ship and its counted as Destroyed, ergo, for further attacks, it would not be there to shoot at...

With Rieekan, its not destroyed, so its entirely possible

There is no direct rules statement that says, with Rieekan, you would stop dealing cards... It may be worthwhile to ask about it... And I'm going to spend the next 20 minutes or so actually re-reading the Rulebook, so I'll attach an Edit line here...

(TO BE EDITED ONCE FURTHER RULES READING HAS BEEN DONE)

Wow. It would be bad to be on the receiving end of the Precision StRiekaan.

Flipping existing cards up should work just fine, but are you sure that damage cards could still be dealt to it after it has been destroyed?

Normally its because you Remove the Ship and its counted as Destroyed, ergo, for further attacks, it would not be there to shoot at...

With Rieekan, its not destroyed, so its entirely possible

There is no direct rules statement that says, with Rieekan, you would stop dealing cards... It may be worthwhile to ask about it... And I'm going to spend the next 20 minutes or so actually re-reading the Rulebook, so I'll attach an Edit line here...

(TO BE EDITED ONCE FURTHER RULES READING HAS BEEN DONE)

General Riekann: "When a friendly ship or friendly unique squadron is destroyed, it remains in the play area and is treated as if it was not destroyed until the end of the Status Phase."

If it is treated as if it was not destroyed, it should still be a valid target for attacks, overlapping, activation, objective card effects, etc.

Flipping existing cards up should work just fine, but are you sure that damage cards could still be dealt to it after it has been destroyed?

Normally its because you Remove the Ship and its counted as Destroyed, ergo, for further attacks, it would not be there to shoot at...

With Rieekan, its not destroyed, so its entirely possible

There is no direct rules statement that says, with Rieekan, you would stop dealing cards... It may be worthwhile to ask about it... And I'm going to spend the next 20 minutes or so actually re-reading the Rulebook, so I'll attach an Edit line here...

(TO BE EDITED ONCE FURTHER RULES READING HAS BEEN DONE)

General Riekann: "When a friendly ship or friendly unique squadron is destroyed, it remains in the play area and is treated as if it was not destroyed until the end of the Status Phase."

If it is treated as if it was not destroyed, it should still be a valid target for attacks, overlapping, activation, objective card effects, etc.

Yes, all of those are still valid.

Here's a question that came up in my last Vassal tournament game that goes with this thread.

I have a ship that has one hull remaining. My opponent attacks that ship, and does enough extra damage that it will certainly die, so he spends a die to flip a card. If that happens, and the card happens to be Structural Damage, does the ship get destroyed immediately during the modify dice step, meaning that the attacker can't get a second token from the critical effect? My commander was not Rieekan. The consensus from the observers was that my opponent would only get one victory token, but I was wondering if the whole attack should really be resolved.

The card ended up being something else, so this scenario didn't actually happen, and my opponent got two tokens. I'm just curious.

I'm with your Observers...

A Ship with Damage Cards equal to its hull is Immediately destroyed.


From RRG, Page 4, Damage: (Italic and Bold Emphasis mine)


• When a ship has damage cards equal to its hull value, it is immediately destroyed.

• When a ship suffers damage and a hull zone isn’t specified, the ship’s owner chooses which hull zone suffers all of that damage.

• Faceup damage cards have either an effect that must be resolved immediately when the card is dealt or a persistent effect that applies while the card is faceup.

• Faceup damage cards remain faceup unless an effect flips them facedown. While a damage card is faceup, its effect applies to the ship.

So with my quick highlighting there - the point is "Immediately". Twice.

If you flipped over Structural Damage, you would then immediately resolve that card, drawing another damage card and turning that card face down - which would result in you immediately removing the Ship from play as Destroyed.

Interesting...I've seen when people take more damage than needed to destroy a ship, they go ahead and deal themselves all the damage cards anyway. I've read all these rules many times, but I never questioned this practice because it really didn't seem to matter.

A corollary to this: I gather that if you shoot someone with XX-9 turbolasers, and the first damage is enough to destroy the defending ship, the attacker only gets one token, not two for the 2nd crit. Good to know!

Interesting...I've seen when people take more damage than needed to destroy a ship, they go ahead and deal themselves all the damage cards anyway. I've read all these rules many times, but I never questioned this practice because it really didn't seem to matter.

I have been told this is an X-Wing Hangover, but as I do not play X-Wing, I cannot comment on its validity.

Interesting...I've seen when people take more damage than needed to destroy a ship, they go ahead and deal themselves all the damage cards anyway. I've read all these rules many times, but I never questioned this practice because it really didn't seem to matter.

I have been told this is an X-Wing Hangover, but as I do not play X-Wing, I cannot comment on its validity.

Yep, I've heard that same thing too, early in the Armada lifecycle.

But Armada damage is dealt one card at a time. Couple that with Dras's immediatelies, and it does cause a potential lack of getting optimal points.

I have another question related to Precision Strike. Lets say an enemy ship with hull 8 already has 6 damage cards face down on it. You attack with an ISD and roll 8 damage on 8 dice with at least 1 critical. Can you spend more than 1 attack die flipping all 6 face down with that one attack or is the wording on the card mean you may ONLY flip 1 per attack? Only is not found in the text of the card so wouldn't that mean you may keep spending 1 die as much as you want. In this scenario you cancel 6 die with hits flipping all 6 face down damage cards, then the face up critical and last damage to get 8 victory tokens?

Only One Die.

• A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

Cannot occur again for that instance.

So you can only ever flip one card per attack. But it can be one card on every attack.

Only One Die.

• A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

Cannot occur again for that instance.

So you can only ever flip one card per attack. But it can be one card on every attack.

Thank you. That is what I was thinking. It would be way to powerful to be able to cancel more than 1 an attack like this scenario. That would be 7 extra victory points for 105 points plus the ship.

I'm with your Observers...

A Ship with Damage Cards equal to its hull is Immediately destroyed.

From RRG, Page 4, Damage: (Italic and Bold Emphasis mine)

• When a ship has damage cards equal to its hull value, it is immediately destroyed.

• When a ship suffers damage and a hull zone isn’t specified, the ship’s owner chooses which hull zone suffers all of that damage.

• Faceup damage cards have either an effect that must be resolved immediately when the card is dealt or a persistent effect that applies while the card is faceup.

• Faceup damage cards remain faceup unless an effect flips them facedown. While a damage card is faceup, its effect applies to the ship.

So with my quick highlighting there - the point is "Immediately". Twice.

If you flipped over Structural Damage, you would then immediately resolve that card, drawing another damage card and turning that card face down - which would result in you immediately removing the Ship from play as Destroyed.

Combined with Rieekan, this could potentially really hurt you: "When a friendly ship or friendly unique squadron is destroyed, it remains in the play area and is treated as if it was not destroyed until the end of the Status Phase."

So you can get extra cards when you have Rieekan. Which can run up the score a fair bit as I've seen in some games.

Combined with Rieekan, this could potentially really hurt you: "When a friendly ship or friendly unique squadron is destroyed, it remains in the play area and is treated as if it was not destroyed until the end of the Status Phase."

So you can get extra cards when you have Rieekan. Which can run up the score a fair bit as I've seen in some games.

Yep! That was the sentiment I expressed in post #6 of this thread

Combined with Rieekan, this could potentially really hurt you: "When a friendly ship or friendly unique squadron is destroyed, it remains in the play area and is treated as if it was not destroyed until the end of the Status Phase."

So you can get extra cards when you have Rieekan. Which can run up the score a fair bit as I've seen in some games.

Yep! That was the sentiment I expressed in post #6 of this thread

I am still waiting for the day that a Rieekan list picks my Precision Strike. . . I expect a 600 point game. . . 200-300 of that will be tokens though. . . I dont know how much I would lose though. . .