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Looks like you made a hash of that post!
Oh god it hurts 
What Excites You About Imperial Veterans?
I had completely disregarded TIE Bombers until some of the discussion here, Now I'm actually excited to try them out with the LRS + Homing Missile setup
Cool! I do want to point out that one of the best ways to defeat Shield Regen lists is to use a strong alpha strike. Ordnance is a good way to accomplish that. Even a single Tie Bomber will be much more viable in 100 pt games with some of these changes. 20 pts for Scimitar w/ LRS, EM, and Homing Missiles...just to help hit someone early. It can go at the end of the first round after most people have already spent their tokens to help finish off someone...even an ace!
Just to show what type of a Tie Bomber nut I am, I just special ordered a lid for my movement template tray. It's a tray that holds movement templates, but it didn't have a lid. I think I've convinced the seller to make lids that you can use rare earth magnets to connect them. Here's my custom lid:
That's dead sexy.
Interesting that you bring up WWII bombers.
Bombers were like herds of grazers with spines on their backs. They could try to fight off predators, but as soon as a lucky shot brought down one plane, that added extra blind spots to the others surrounding it in the formation. German pilots were very keen to find the doughnut holes and arcs of bombers in order to be able to attack unmolested. A real world case of arc dodging. Adding more guns (arcs) didn't fix the problem as it was still a case of a (relatively speaking) stationary target firing at very rapidly moving target that was itself enjoying a large lumbering object moving in a straight line.
My grandfather flew B-24s, 25s, and 26s over Germany. He told stories of the extents that they would go through to get flak or fighters away from their plane. They looted a bombed out clothing store for mannequins and put extra parachutes on them. When too much unwanted attention came their way, they would start throwing the dummies out to make the enemy pilots think they were bailing. A lot of scrap metal chunks welded together along with yet another spare chute produced what looked like a giant bomb. For kicks, they let it float out of the bomb bay over an area with heavy AA. Considering that both sides knew that the other was interested in making an atom bomb, it was interesting to see the flak stop cold as the Germans tried to figure out what was heading toward them.
The big thing that came about to give the bombers some relief was the P-51, as it had the range to escort the bombers and actually engage the enemy fighters on their terms.
I read an interesting story recently (not recently enough to source mind you) about a WWII flight crew that striped a bomber of all those pesky bomber accesories, and more guns and gunnery crew. They'd fly on bombing raids as a literal flying fortresses of machine gun fire to escort the real bombers. Like a kwing with 3 more turret slots, extra attack and no ordinance.
Interesting that you bring up WWII bombers.
Bombers were like herds of grazers with spines on their backs. They could try to fight off predators, but as soon as a lucky shot brought down one plane, that added extra blind spots to the others surrounding it in the formation. German pilots were very keen to find the doughnut holes and arcs of bombers in order to be able to attack unmolested. A real world case of arc dodging. Adding more guns (arcs) didn't fix the problem as it was still a case of a (relatively speaking) stationary target firing at very rapidly moving target that was itself enjoying a large lumbering object moving in a straight line.
My grandfather flew B-24s, 25s, and 26s over Germany. He told stories of the extents that they would go through to get flak or fighters away from their plane. They looted a bombed out clothing store for mannequins and put extra parachutes on them. When too much unwanted attention came their way, they would start throwing the dummies out to make the enemy pilots think they were bailing. A lot of scrap metal chunks welded together along with yet another spare chute produced what looked like a giant bomb. For kicks, they let it float out of the bomb bay over an area with heavy AA. Considering that both sides knew that the other was interested in making an atom bomb, it was interesting to see the flak stop cold as the Germans tried to figure out what was heading toward them.
The big thing that came about to give the bombers some relief was the P-51, as it had the range to escort the bombers and actually engage the enemy fighters on their terms.
I read an interesting story recently (not recently enough to source mind you) about a WWII flight crew that striped a bomber of all those pesky bomber accesories, and more guns and gunnery crew. They'd fly on bombing raids as a literal flying fortresses of machine gun fire to escort the real bombers. Like a kwing with 3 more turret slots, extra attack and no ordinance.
In the other direction, you had bombers that stripped all the bomb stuff AND guns out and were loaded with radio detectors to figure out where the German radar stations were located and how they worked.
I had completely disregarded TIE Bombers until some of the discussion here, Now I'm actually excited to try them out with the LRS + Homing Missile setup
Cool! I do want to point out that one of the best ways to defeat Shield Regen lists is to use a strong alpha strike. Ordnance is a good way to accomplish that. Even a single Tie Bomber will be much more viable in 100 pt games with some of these changes. 20 pts for Scimitar w/ LRS, EM, and Homing Missiles...just to help hit someone early. It can go at the end of the first round after most people have already spent their tokens to help finish off someone...even an ace!
Just to show what type of a Tie Bomber nut I am, I just special ordered a lid for my movement template tray. It's a tray that holds movement templates, but it didn't have a lid. I think I've convinced the seller to make lids that you can use rare earth magnets to connect them. Here's my custom lid:
That is suuuuper cool!
However, I might be missing something with your math, there. A Scimitar w/ LRS, Homing Missiles and EM comes to 23 points, not 20. Still looks like a fun, simple build, though
However, I might be missing something with your math, there. A Scimitar w/ LRS, Homing Missiles and EM comes to 23 points, not 20. Still looks like a fun, simple build, though
Duhhh.....sorry. Mind blank. Yeah, it's 23 pts. I have no idea what I was thinking.
However, I might be missing something with your math, there. A Scimitar w/ LRS, Homing Missiles and EM comes to 23 points, not 20. Still looks like a fun, simple build, though
Duhhh.....sorry. Mind blank. Yeah, it's 23 pts. I have no idea what I was thinking.
Wishfully thinking you'd like to run five of them?
Wishfully thinking you'd like to run five of them?However, I might be missing something with your math, there. A Scimitar w/ LRS, Homing Missiles and EM comes to 23 points, not 20. Still looks like a fun, simple build, though
Duhhh.....sorry. Mind blank. Yeah, it's 23 pts. I have no idea what I was thinking.
I read an interesting story recently (not recently enough to source mind you) about a WWII flight crew that striped a bomber of all those pesky bomber accesories, and more guns and gunnery crew. They'd fly on bombing raids as a literal flying fortresses of machine gun fire to escort the real bombers. Like a kwing with 3 more turret slots, extra attack and no ordinance.
In the other direction, you had bombers that stripped all the bomb stuff AND guns out and were loaded with radio detectors to figure out where the German radar stations were located and how they worked.
Sounds like a TIE Shuttle with Fleet Officer to me.
How about now neatly Tomas Bren fits alongside the Inquisitor and Soontir Fel?
I always feel uncomfortable with less than 4 ships in a list.....
Thomas bren with crackshot and a pair of homings slots in perfectly with two Jyke x7 Glaives 
Ooooh, now there's an idea. Maximum Imperial Veterans!
How about now neatly Tomas Bren fits alongside the Inquisitor and Soontir Fel?
Tomax won't be able to acquire Target Locks on ships at range 1 or 2 with Long Range Scanners. I'm not sure if you included the Tracers on The Inquisitor in an attempt to get around that but it won't work. The only thing in the game currently that will allow him to get a lock on a ship that close to him is Jendon.
Edited by WWHSD
Interesting that you bring up WWII bombers.
Bombers were like herds of grazers with spines on their backs. They could try to fight off predators, but as soon as a lucky shot brought down one plane, that added extra blind spots to the others surrounding it in the formation. German pilots were very keen to find the doughnut holes and arcs of bombers in order to be able to attack unmolested. A real world case of arc dodging. Adding more guns (arcs) didn't fix the problem as it was still a case of a (relatively speaking) stationary target firing at very rapidly moving target that was itself enjoying a large lumbering object moving in a straight line.
My grandfather flew B-24s, 25s, and 26s over Germany. He told stories of the extents that they would go through to get flak or fighters away from their plane. They looted a bombed out clothing store for mannequins and put extra parachutes on them. When too much unwanted attention came their way, they would start throwing the dummies out to make the enemy pilots think they were bailing. A lot of scrap metal chunks welded together along with yet another spare chute produced what looked like a giant bomb. For kicks, they let it float out of the bomb bay over an area with heavy AA. Considering that both sides knew that the other was interested in making an atom bomb, it was interesting to see the flak stop cold as the Germans tried to figure out what was heading toward them.
The big thing that came about to give the bombers some relief was the P-51, as it had the range to escort the bombers and actually engage the enemy fighters on their terms.
I read an interesting story recently (not recently enough to source mind you) about a WWII flight crew that striped a bomber of all those pesky bomber accesories, and more guns and gunnery crew. They'd fly on bombing raids as a literal flying fortresses of machine gun fire to escort the real bombers. Like a kwing with 3 more turret slots, extra attack and no ordinance.
That was the YB-40, it had an extra dorsal turret, twin 50's on each side mount, a remote controlled chin turret, 'cheek' emplacements, and ammo and armor in lieu of bombs.
It was very heavy however, and the extra guns messed with airflow. This meant that the whole formation either had to slow down to keep it within range. The problem was even worse after dropping the bombs as now the bombers were a lot lighter but still had to hang back for the gunship. On top of this, formations were huge. A second dorsal turret was rather visible to enemy fighters. If the gunship is in one area of the box, just attack another. The fact that the YB-40s were mostly used to protect the flight commander's aircraft exacerbated this issue. The gunship couldn't change its position within the box to engage fighters without risking having a bomb dropped on it or impacting another bomber.
Any maneuvering would also have required the formation to slow down further as moving in a curved line through open air is a longer distance than moving in a straight line. If all the other bombers are moving in straight lines, then the gunship would have to go faster to make up for the distance difference. Since the gunship was already the limiting factor on speed though...
Finally, the extra weight lowered the effective range of the bombers which meant either ignoring targets far off from their airfields or risk losing the gunships when they ran out of fuel.
All these factors, combined with the fact that the P-51 was already in production, meant that the YB-40 was more of a stopgap measure until sufficient Mustangs were in the sky to escort all bomber formations.
To bring your K-Wing into the picture, imagine having a K-Wing providing cover fire for Y-Wings. They both have the same white forward movement, but the Y-Wings could also go 4 and get a stress every other turn. Assuming that the K-Wing was in the middle of the Y-Wings, you could have Defenders or Phantoms attacking at range 3 of the Y-Wings and the K-Wing couldn't respond. If it was a matter of winning the game to have the Y-Wings get to their target and fire, then the K-Wing also endangers that by taking away the Y-Wings' 4 movement. Better to use X-Wings to take the fight to the enemy as there will be more of them for the same points and they can move 4 every turn if need be.
Thomas bren with crackshot and a pair of homings slots in perfectly with two Jyke x7 Glaives
That is rough. Do you give him LRS for max Ace hatred or GC to increase total damage? I'm leaning toward LRS. He's super punchy, and way easier to kill than the Defenders, so you'll want that Homing Missile off early against the ship he wants to kill, and if he needs to switch targets, Crack Shot keeps him a solid contributor.
Thomas bren with crackshot and a pair of homings slots in perfectly with two Jyke x7 Glaives
That is rough. Do you give him LRS for max Ace hatred or GC to increase total damage? I'm leaning toward LRS. He's super punchy, and way easier to kill than the Defenders, so you'll want that Homing Missile off early against the ship he wants to kill, and if he needs to switch targets, Crack Shot keeps him a solid contributor.
Would Deadeye be a workaround for LRS? Not on Thomas specifically, but maybe on a veteran or something.
Thomas bren with crackshot and a pair of homings slots in perfectly with two Jyke x7 Glaives
That is rough. Do you give him LRS for max Ace hatred or GC to increase total damage? I'm leaning toward LRS. He's super punchy, and way easier to kill than the Defenders, so you'll want that Homing Missile off early against the ship he wants to kill, and if he needs to switch targets, Crack Shot keeps him a solid contributor.
Would Deadeye be a workaround for LRS? Not on Thomas specifically, but maybe on a veteran or something.
Yeah, Deadeye never has you actually acquire a Target Lock. It just lets you use a focus token instead of target lock for the purpose of firing off ordnance.
deadeye would be a workaround with GC, since now you deal with modifying dice and getting around low PS TLs
personally believe that's something reserved for jumpy, though, as r4 will let you also re-roll your ordnance in addition to the GC mod
I read an interesting story recently (not recently enough to source mind you) about a WWII flight crew that striped a bomber of all those pesky bomber accesories, and more guns and gunnery crew. They'd fly on bombing raids as a literal flying fortresses of machine gun fire to escort the real bombers. Like a kwing with 3 more turret slots, extra attack and no ordinance.
I don't think you're talking about a flight crew but rather that experiment prototype that flyboymb mentions above. They certainly added firepower to the Fortress but that made it completely unsuitable for the job it was designed to do.
When I think of stripping bombers in WWII is was usually anything that would let them fly further and/or faster.
I'm imagining that the two homing missiles will go excellently with any ship taking LRS, seeing as you don't need to expend your TL to fire them. TL in the opening round, focus when you get close, only spend your TL if you will be able to reacquire it the next round. Just keep pumping them full of Homing Missiles or Advanced Homing Missiles, are range requires.
Everything. Red Defender, new titles, Bomber upgrades, the new pilots, it's all exciting to me!
Mostly a third Defender & some upgrades for it. Can't wait!
Everything. Red Defender, new titles, Bomber upgrades, the new pilots, it's all exciting to me!
Mostly a third Defender & some upgrades for it. Can't wait!
I plan to get two sets, that will give me a total of 4 Bombers and 5 Defenders. This makes me happy.
Everything. Red Defender, new titles, Bomber upgrades, the new pilots, it's all exciting to me!
Mostly a third Defender & some upgrades for it. Can't wait!
I plan to get two sets, that will give me a total of 4 Bombers and 5 Defenders. This makes me happy.
I like your style sir!