I WAS most excited by the cool red Defender and the X7 title.

After reading this thread I'm now equally excited to try out LRS Bombers.

Controversial Opinion Alert: I don't WANT ordnance to be viable for every ship that can carry it or top-tier super viable with no effort. I can't imagine much that'd be worse for X-Wing than a Duelling Alpha Strike ordnance meta where games get decided by PS bids and dice luck during the initial merge. And this is coming from someone who's pretty deeply averse to Turretwing. But Chimp/LRS-enabled ordnance spam that's viable for certain ships but has obvious drawbacks, is tricky to set up and has counters? Yes fricking please.

I dunno it's all good and we haven't had it all spoiled yet.

But mostly it's the vindication of knowing our efforts aren't wasted the community got behind the defender and bomber and the results will be ours soon.

Now for the gunship, missile boat, clawcraft and all the other decent eu ships.

@Buddyfett

The argument could be made that LRS is a decent pick for low pilot skill Bombers that move before the enemy ships and would be out of range to use target lock.

Thread tracers is still a thing you could use in place though.

Anyway, even if you don't like LRS, Imperial Veterans comes with 3 new pilot cards for bombers. The new ace Tomax is pretty fantastic. And PS 5 Gamma Veterans can take Deadeye, so can forgo target locks altogether. You can use the new cards for your old models. I don't know if you consider new pilot cards to use with the old ships is something new. I only own two of the old bombers, so getting 2 of these new packs gets me all I need, but I suppose people that already own 4 bombers might be annoyed.

Do you really want to see that sort of alpha strike in the game? I don't. It's a poor fix to the problem.

I want Imperial Vets to make existing card better, not replace them. Infinite use Crackshot guy and EPT Generics will see use, but that's clearly not my problem.

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Captain Jonus (22)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This would average a 3,4375 damage per torpedoes if my maths are not wrong. If my maths are wrong, it means it is more average damage!

It would be more efficient to go with 4 Gammas with LRS and Homing Missiles than Jonus. Jonus is a weak point in the list and will be blasted out probably before your 2nd missile is fired. I have used him a lot and this is what happens. Also, you get good dice results with Homing Missile w/ TL and Focus, but with 4 ships instead of just 3.

4 Gammas with LRS and Homing Missiles is 104 points (I assume Extra Munition).

Yeah, if you get 2 of each, it might not be such a hit. Imperial fanboys and fangirls will get at least two Punishers for those sweet Twin Ion Engine Mk. II mods, as well as the only source of Flechette Torpedoes outside of Rebel Transport and E-wing expansions.

Those K-wings come with Conner Net too, which is a great bomb. They also include 2 Twin Laser Turrets for use with Scum Y-wings to complement the Punishing One you might pick up.

Punishing One comes with 2 Guidance Chips. I just noticed.

But if you don't feel the need to put 4 bombers/punishers in your list, you won't need 4 Extra Munitions. Maybe you want a TIE Advanced Prototype with Thread Tracers, or a Defender TIE/D with Tractor Beam to really make those Proton Torpedoes sting.

But it's not like I'm really strict about requiring upgrade cards on my kitchen table.

You also get a copy in the TIE Adv. prototype.

4 Gammas with LRS and Homing Missiles is 104 points (I assume Extra Munition).

Gamma (18) + Extra Munitions (2) + Homing Missile (5) = 25 pts.

I dunno it's all good and we haven't had it all spoiled yet.

But mostly it's the vindication of knowing our efforts aren't wasted the community got behind the defender and bomber and the results will be ours soon.

Now for the gunship, missile boat, clawcraft and all the other decent eu ships.

GUNBOAT

Or bungoat. Either one.

@Buddyfett

The argument could be made that LRS is a decent pick for low pilot skill Bombers that move before the enemy ships and would be out of range to use target lock.

Thread tracers is still a thing you could use in place though.

Anyway, even if you don't like LRS, Imperial Veterans comes with 3 new pilot cards for bombers. The new ace Tomax is pretty fantastic. And PS 5 Gamma Veterans can take Deadeye, so can forgo target locks altogether. You can use the new cards for your old models. I don't know if you consider new pilot cards to use with the old ships is something new. I only own two of the old bombers, so getting 2 of these new packs gets me all I need, but I suppose people that already own 4 bombers might be annoyed.

Do you really want to see that sort of alpha strike in the game? I don't. It's a poor fix to the problem.

I want Imperial Vets to make existing card better, not replace them. Infinite use Crackshot guy and EPT Generics will see use, but that's clearly not my problem.

Wait....are you saying you DON'T want to see a 4 generic Tie Bomber meta in the game? I do! Well, it is already happening at my local store. I came in 3rd at my last Store Champ with an all Tie Bomber list and that was even before EM.

I will say that the old generics will benefit greatly from the new cards. The old named guys? Well....they were overpriced to begin with, so what can you do? You can't really reduce the price of all Bombers without making the generics OP. Jonus doesn't give a bonus to himself and has a bigger target on his forehead than Howlrunner in an All Bomber list. Rhymer got his "fix" with Adv. Homing Missiles and Extra Munitions. Still too expensive, though.

I dunno it's all good and we haven't had it all spoiled yet.

But mostly it's the vindication of knowing our efforts aren't wasted the community got behind the defender and bomber and the results will be ours soon.

Now for the gunship, missile boat, clawcraft and all the other decent eu ships.

GUNBOAT

Or bungoat. Either one.

Autocorrect wins again.

To clarify, this is coming from the point of view of someone who puts a lot of value on early damage, and that's exactly what LRS improves. GC certainly is more useful on a high PS "ordnance ace" that expects to be firing 3+ shots over the course of a game, and has the PS to get a reliable early TL, but I think that might be the weakest way to use ordnance overall, because you'll be fighting a lot more at close range where the ordnance advantage isn't as strong, and traditional arc-dodging is a stronger counter. To me, Ordnance is all about the first turn, where you're at range 3 and shooting 4 dice with mods vs AGI instead of 2 or 3 with mods against +1 AGI. That's a huge swing. Once you get close, all the advantages of missiles and torps fade, and all their disadvantages get much bigger. LRS plays to the phase of the game where ordnance is strongest.

I will say that GC does make a single ordnance support ship a possibility. It doesn't have to be an ace, but Tomax Bren comes to mind. He's got the PS to get the TL and can use Crack Shot during the shot. I wouldn't load him up with more than say 1 ordnance and EM, but he gets to use Crack Shot after he's shot his load.

Way back in Waves 1 & 2 I used to use a formation of Tie Fighters and Vader w/ Backstabber on the flanks. Vader had Concussion Missile that would do good damage with a Focus and flip a hit. It was an Alpha Strike that was followed up by Backstabber and any of the Tie Fighters that needed to finish the target off. It was brutally effective. I did try swapping Backstabber out for a Tie Bomber at the time and it had decent results. I think you could probably do something similar with a Tie Bomber with Guidance Chip. The ability to slap one ship for a lot of damage in the first round seriously hurts your opponent, even if it's not their main ship. Take a solid support ship and smash it will hurt his plans. You would probably need something other than a Scimitar to make it work, though.

"Bomber Ace" is probably too strong a word. To make LRS better than GC, in my view of ordnance, you need a ship that you can reasonably expect to get a first-engagement Target Lock on its own, and you need to expect that ship to survive long enough and be in position long enough to get use multiple ordnance salvos. It depends on what you're trying to kill, but that pushes the preferred ship build toward the higher end.

My current quad bomber fantasy list:

Gamma Vet 19, Crack Shot 1, Homing Missile 5, EM 2, LRS 0 = 27

Gamma Vet 19, Crack Shot 1, Homing Missile 5, EM 2, LRS 0 = 27

Gamma Vet 19, Deadeye 1, Homing Missile 5, EM 2, GC 0 = 27

Scimitar 16, Shuttle Title 0, Vader 3 (maybe Fleet Officer instead) = 19

100 points

You've got two early Target Lockers that can hammer anything with a TL/Focus/Crackshot/Ignore Evade Homing Missile (or save the Crack Shot as needed), a flex missile shooter in the Deadeye Vet, and a finishing unit with the Vader Bomber. You have a lot of flexibility how you attack, because the Homing Missiles don't require you do spend the TL, so if you roll really well or really badly you can save the TL for when ships get closer. You also have the Crack Shot that can be spent on Primary attacks, so if you think the Homing Missile will be overkill or you want to engage a non-TL target, you can use Crack Shot as some extra insurance that the damage goes through.

My current quad bomber fantasy list:

Gamma Vet 19, Crack Shot 1, Homing Missile 5, EM 2, LRS 0 = 27

Gamma Vet 19, Crack Shot 1, Homing Missile 5, EM 2, LRS 0 = 27

Gamma Vet 19, Deadeye 1, Homing Missile 5, EM 2, GC 0 = 27

Scimitar 16, Shuttle Title 0, Vader 3 (maybe Fleet Officer instead) = 19

100 points

You've got two early Target Lockers that can hammer anything with a TL/Focus/Crackshot/Ignore Evade Homing Missile (or save the Crack Shot as needed), a flex missile shooter in the Deadeye Vet, and a finishing unit with the Vader Bomber. You have a lot of flexibility how you attack, because the Homing Missiles don't require you do spend the TL, so if you roll really well or really badly you can save the TL for when ships get closer. You also have the Crack Shot that can be spent on Primary attacks, so if you think the Homing Missile will be overkill or you want to engage a non-TL target, you can use Crack Shot as some extra insurance that the damage goes through.

It would be neat to try. I think I'd lean more towards 4 x Gamma w/ LRS, Homing, and EM. It beats TLT's, but you lose the Seismic. I should probably try that.

To clarify, this is coming from the point of view of someone who puts a lot of value on early damage, and that's exactly what LRS improves. GC certainly is more useful on a high PS "ordnance ace" that expects to be firing 3+ shots over the course of a game, and has the PS to get a reliable early TL, but I think that might be the weakest way to use ordnance overall, because you'll be fighting a lot more at close range where the ordnance advantage isn't as strong, and traditional arc-dodging is a stronger counter. To me, Ordnance is all about the first turn, where you're at range 3 and shooting 4 dice with mods vs AGI instead of 2 or 3 with mods against +1 AGI. That's a huge swing. Once you get close, all the advantages of missiles and torps fade, and all their disadvantages get much bigger. LRS plays to the phase of the game where ordnance is strongest.

I will say that GC does make a single ordnance support ship a possibility. It doesn't have to be an ace, but Tomax Bren comes to mind. He's got the PS to get the TL and can use Crack Shot during the shot. I wouldn't load him up with more than say 1 ordnance and EM, but he gets to use Crack Shot after he's shot his load.

Way back in Waves 1 & 2 I used to use a formation of Tie Fighters and Vader w/ Backstabber on the flanks. Vader had Concussion Missile that would do good damage with a Focus and flip a hit. It was an Alpha Strike that was followed up by Backstabber and any of the Tie Fighters that needed to finish the target off. It was brutally effective. I did try swapping Backstabber out for a Tie Bomber at the time and it had decent results. I think you could probably do something similar with a Tie Bomber with Guidance Chip. The ability to slap one ship for a lot of damage in the first round seriously hurts your opponent, even if it's not their main ship. Take a solid support ship and smash it will hurt his plans. You would probably need something other than a Scimitar to make it work, though.

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Captain Jonus (22)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This would average a 3,4375 damage per torpedoes if my maths are not wrong. If my maths are wrong, it means it is more average damage!

It would be more efficient to go with 4 Gammas with LRS and Homing Missiles than Jonus. Jonus is a weak point in the list and will be blasted out probably before your 2nd missile is fired. I have used him a lot and this is what happens. Also, you get good dice results with Homing Missile w/ TL and Focus, but with 4 ships instead of just 3.

The thing about LRS, your enemies could go from range 4 to range two, and it just may end up your are pointing at the enemy you don't have target locked. With Deadeye and Chips, you aren't punished for telegraphing your targets in an earlier round.

Although I would use Cuncussion Missiles instead of Proton Torpedoes and run Tomax Bren with Fleet Officer and Cool Hand instead of Jonus. Instead of a 4th bomber, I might throw in a cheap Advanced Prototype for variety and some more nimble harassment.

True that one enemy can go from R4 to close range, but don't forget that you shouldn't have your ships flying in formation. So, you can fly them loose and make sure to cover a number of arcs. Also, it takes some practice to figure out who to TL, but I don't think it will be too hard to figure out once you get there.

You know, there are a number of games you can play with putting TL's on people. You can always change last minute and that can mess with people. Or have two Bombers on one guy and two on another. I mean, most ships can't take more than 2 Homing Missiles fired at them, especially with a Focus, too. So, most likely, you will be able to take out one ship in the first pass over.

I also want to point out that sometimes it's OK to blast the support ships to pieces and save the big fish for later. Doesn't work for Soontir Fel and a few others, but other guys are OK to wait.

The TIE Advanced Prototype expansion includes Guidance Chips, Thread Tracers, Homing Missiles, and Deadeye.

Deadeye was previously only available in the A-wing expansion. I'm not sure why so many good cards for Bombers are coming with the TAP, but I won't complain.

It doesn't hurt that the TAP looks like a decent ship too.

TAP with missiles isn't a bad ship! Grab the TL for the free Evade and then use it to fire a Concussion Missile!

TAP with missiles isn't a bad ship! Grab the TL for the free Evade and then use it to fire a Concussion Missile!

I think you'll see pockets more often. Especially on the inquisitor.

TAP with missiles isn't a bad ship! Grab the TL for the free Evade and then use it to fire a Concussion Missile!

not bad, but the PS 2 is going for the same price as the scimitar

everything's relative

there is something to be said about potential of Juke missiles ala Rudor (so far; maybe the PS 4 has an ept), other than the fact that we'll miss thrusters dearly

TAP with missiles isn't a bad ship! Grab the TL for the free Evade and then use it to fire a Concussion Missile!

I think you'll see pockets more often. Especially on the inquisitor.

http://imgur.com/jTuWJ3q

We've kind of been discussing LRS vs GC in black and white, like you have to pick one or another when you build a Bomber squad, but there's probably an optimal mix. It doesn't have to be 4 LRS vs 4 GC, it could be 2 and 2, or 1 and 3, all depending on the main threat you're trying to build against. You build a squad, figure out how far tactics can take you against certain opponents, find the bad matchups, and build your ordnance load to handle them best. The optimal loadout will probably vary a lot from player to player, because everyone has different strengths as a player. The fact that TIE Bombers have all these options is pretty excellent, though.

An interesting meta advantage of a TIE Bomber squad is that as the meta shifts, you can shift your payload to counter what's strongest/most prevalent, and not have to learn a new squad.

TAP with missiles isn't a bad ship! Grab the TL for the free Evade and then use it to fire a Concussion Missile!

I think you'll see pockets more often. Especially on the inquisitor.

Oh! I never thought of that. Wickedly fun....

Inquisitor is primary weapon guys, you cant fire range 3 prockets.

Inquisitor is primary weapon guys, you cant fire range 3 prockets.

Sure, but it does give you a nasty punch at close range, where you're otherwise relatively weak.

Problem with TAP is that the title gives TL+Evade, while Prockets need a focus. So, it's probably great on the baron with his free action, someone shoots him, he focuses and drops a rocket on someone. Or if you have PtL, but then you dont get Juke.

TAP with missiles isn't a bad ship! Grab the TL for the free Evade and then use it to fire a Concussion Missile!

I think you'll see pockets more often. Especially on the inquisitor.

http://imgur.com/jTuWJ3q

Sweet! A place to shove my wallet and keys!

Inquisitor is primary weapon guys, you cant fire range 3 prockets.

I'm aware. But 5 Dice at range one is always nice.