I'm not a huge fan of the bomber upgrades mostly because it just makes the tie shuttle into s weaker stress bot and still doesn't make it a decent ordinance platform. Guidance chips still aren't enough. I would of liked an additional title for tie bombers granting double mods for either long range scanner and guidance chip bombers or tie mk2 and shuttle or guidance chip bombers to make them viable. The defender fixes are hot however. Multiple crackshot are awesome.

Well are you missing out then

Ya they don't shoot fancy missles, but having board control is great. If anything it does not make the bombers weaker

Puts the fear of God into anything that does not want double stress, or any stres for that matter

It's the new panic attack for Imperials and I like it.

Shoot at bomber take a stress.

Get into range 1 take a stress.

Didn't avoid range two arc another stress.

Intel agent, let's see where your going.

I've been using vessery with ion Cannon for that added board control, but I'm highly debating tractor beam

Reduce that agility and makes it even easier for those bombers to get that dmg through.

Idk, but as I said, I've gone two games with it and won both.

Bombers are tanky and many a times one will escape with one or two health while there are still fully health bombers on the board

Out of both games so far only lost 1 ship. First game was against elite 6 ship tie swarm where the lowest ps my opponent had was ps3, and other game was Vader and veteran instincts vessery

Point is bombers don't need missiles to be useful.

Guidance Drea or w.e her name is could be quite painful

The pirate queen and her toothy grinned little friend were already the most combo to have four torp hits every time, but free modded dice? Please and thank you.

She'll be pleased to have that dorsal turret (as opposed to my more standard autoblaster choice) once her tubes are empty.

But Bombers are now something completely different: viable ordnance carriers

So, what do you guys think of a Vader/Vessery/Inquisitor list? Those are probably the two best aces for Vessery to mooch off of (well, maybe a Adv Maarek might e better?) since Vader won't ever drop his and if the Inquisitor rolls decently he can save his for Vessery.

Vader: VI, TIE mk2, ATC, tie X1 - 32

Vessery: juke, x7, TIE ml2 - 36

Inquisitor: PTL, thrusters, tie v1 - 31

Total: 99

Defenders are my favourite ship, this looks like they will get a fix that will make them a more scary proposition to face, plus the additional benefit of more variety on bombers and EPT Defenders. This release has got me more excited then wave 8, of which at the moment I am not intrested in buying anything.

Now how do I convince my self not to buy three packs so I can fly a trio of sweet red Defenders, curse you FFG and your Evil business ways!!!

So, what do you guys think of a Vader/Vessery/Inquisitor list? Those are probably the two best aces for Vessery to mooch off of (well, maybe a Adv Maarek might e better?) since Vader won't ever drop his and if the Inquisitor rolls decently he can save his for Vessery.

Vader: VI, TIE mk2, ATC, tie X1 - 32

Vessery: juke, x7, TIE ml2 - 36

Inquisitor: PTL, thrusters, tie v1 - 31

Total: 99

Omega Leader doesn't want to spend his lock either. Then there is any ship that can take FCS that will still have the enemy target locked after the attack. TIE Phantoms, Shuttles, Punishers. Plenty of options, just whatever you like best.

But Bombers are now something completely different: viable ordnance carriers

FFS the title even REMOVES the ability to carry ordnance!

The title is its own thing, a way to get more support for Imp side. The real meat and potatoes is the new modifications in Veterans and TIE Inquisitor. And it is not like the TIE Advanced Prototype is a bad ship. Buying a pair or more isn't a waste of money.

I'm just sticking at two, though. I don't care for spam lists, I like to mix it up.

Well I was thinkig of painting up among other things a TIE Defender and Bomber in Zann Consortium colors..... Maybe I'll get the box and trade it around with my Imp playing friends and keep the non Imp stuff - not terribly excited tho.

So, what do you guys think of a Vader/Vessery/Inquisitor list? Those are probably the two best aces for Vessery to mooch off of (well, maybe a Adv Maarek might e better?) since Vader won't ever drop his and if the Inquisitor rolls decently he can save his for Vessery.

Vader: VI, TIE mk2, ATC, tie X1 - 32

Vessery: juke, x7, TIE ml2 - 36

Inquisitor: PTL, thrusters, tie v1 - 31

Total: 99

Omega Leader doesn't want to spend his lock either. Then there is any ship that can take FCS that will still have the enemy target locked after the attack. TIE Phantoms, Shuttles, Punishers. Plenty of options, just whatever you like best.

But Bombers are now something completely different: viable ordnance carriers

FFS the title even REMOVES the ability to carry ordnance!

The title is its own thing, a way to get more support for Imp side. The real meat and potatoes is the new modifications in Veterans and TIE Inquisitor. And it is not like the TIE Advanced Prototype is a bad ship. Buying a pair or more isn't a waste of money.

I'm just sticking at two, though. I don't care for spam lists, I like to mix it up.

Like I said in an earlier reply to ficklegreendice, nothing in this expansion makes the existing bombers better. There is no way in hell you are running long range scanners when guidance chips exist and they come out before imperial vets.

I like the TIE shuttle support ship. But I wish there had been something to boost the bombers main role, rather then to change it completely and leave ordinance to the punisher.

Did I say Maarek Stele in a TIE Defender? I forgot Maarek Stele in a TIE Defender.

Maarek Stele in a TIE Defender.

Now how do I convince my self not to buy three packs so I can fly a trio of sweet red Defenders, curse you FFG and your Evil business ways!!!

You wait until I buy a pack (i.e. day of release), and swap my red Defender for one of your blue ones?

Did I say Maarek Stele in a TIE Defender? I forgot Maarek Stele in a TIE Defender.

Maarek Stele in a TIE Defender.

Oh the man who stole the Defender from Scum

We stole it first - shoo

@Buddyfett

The argument could be made that LRS is a decent pick for low pilot skill Bombers that move before the enemy ships and would be out of range to use target lock.

Thread tracers is still a thing you could use in place though.

Anyway, even if you don't like LRS, Imperial Veterans comes with 3 new pilot cards for bombers. The new ace Tomax is pretty fantastic. And PS 5 Gamma Veterans can take Deadeye, so can forgo target locks altogether. You can use the new cards for your old models. I don't know if you consider new pilot cards to use with the old ships is something new. I only own two of the old bombers, so getting 2 of these new packs gets me all I need, but I suppose people that already own 4 bombers might be annoyed.

I only own two of the old bombers, so getting 2 of these new packs gets me all I need, but I suppose people that already own 4 bombers might be annoyed.

Even if you do own four, Veterans come with two Long Range Scanners, and Chimps come on both the TAP and the Punishing One expansions, so there really should be plenty. The real issue here is having to get four Punishers/K-Wings to get the four Extra Munitions cards.

Yeah, if you get 2 of each, it might not be such a hit. Imperial fanboys and fangirls will get at least two Punishers for those sweet Twin Ion Engine Mk. II mods, as well as the only source of Flechette Torpedoes outside of Rebel Transport and E-wing expansions.

Those K-wings come with Conner Net too, which is a great bomb. They also include 2 Twin Laser Turrets for use with Scum Y-wings to complement the Punishing One you might pick up.

Punishing One comes with 2 Guidance Chips. I just noticed.

But if you don't feel the need to put 4 bombers/punishers in your list, you won't need 4 Extra Munitions. Maybe you want a TIE Advanced Prototype with Thread Tracers, or a Defender TIE/D with Tractor Beam to really make those Proton Torpedoes sting.

But it's not like I'm really strict about requiring upgrade cards on my kitchen table.

Nothing, It doesn't change how the ship is flown, if anything the evade title makes you more predictable. The titles are only making Vessery and Generics better. It doesn't do anything new with the ship. Just makes existing lists like the Jonus Brothers better. Very disappointing.

You're aware Jonus Brothers doesn't work with either title, right?

What? Jonus brothers works with the D title. Re-rolling cannon shots followed by a primary shot supported by a Jonus shuttle with that new crew and/or a Fleet officer. With the Jonus reroll you can have your focus tokens stripped by attacks and save the TL's for the Primary attack. It will be a list. What are you talking about?

Delta w D title and Ion x2

Jonus with Swarm tactics, Shuttle title, fleet officer, Ion Mk.2.

You've got 6 points to play with. This isn't new it's just a more efficient version of an old list.

Back to my original criticism.

Jonus Brothers uses the Heavy Laser Cannon and the effective mini target lock Jonus gives on each shot.

With TIE/D you're only rerolling the Flechette, Ion Cannon or Tractor Beam shot, which do a maximum of one damage. The damage dealing shot is unaffected by Jonus's ability, and all he does for the cannon is make it more likely to hit, whereas with the HLC he can increase the damage that gets through. Jonus really isn't worth it there unless you're using a TIE shuttle anyway. You're better off with a third TIE defender.

First off, I do appreciate you responding when I asked you to explain your point of view. I hope I'm not too aggressive with my opinion. I'm sorry if I'm talking down. I've been drinking a lot of coffee

guidance chip doesn't restrict you from focusing. The ordnance you take generally does because you are using your action to get a target lock instead and very likely discarding that target lock just to use that ordnance (5pt homing missile being the exception). Single converted hit is still statistically worse then a focus token.

I will say that Homing Missile is one of the things that fixes ordnance. Yes, it would be nicer if there was a overall rule, but I've just found that Homing Missiles solve a lot of the issues of ordnance. They cost a lot, but if you can get Extra Munitions on that ship, then you reduce that cost and have a viable ordnance carrier.

There is also Ion Pulse Missile, as well, that lets you keep the TL and is great for Ionizing that important ship that you really need to take down. With Guidance Chip and the TL, you should be able to hit most ships.

Besides that, there are two other ordnances that natively modify the dice. I really wish someone would do the math-wing for them and with all the upgrades. Those are Concussion Missiles and Proton Torpedoes. Concussion Missiles turn one blank into a hit natively and only really work well with Guidance Chip if you roll really bad. I agree that having a Focus would be ideal here. Proton Torpedo, though, is very interesting. It lets you turn one eyeball into a crit. That's kind of like a half Focus. I think Proton Torps combined with Guidance Chip are quite a good combo. The most average roll you will get will be 2 hits, 1 eyeball, and 1 blank. That combo will sort things out for you and end result is 3 hits and 1 crit. Fantastic. Yes, if you happen to roll 2+ eyeballs you are maxing it out or if you roll 2+ blanks, but you are at least going to get SOMETHING for your dice. I'd say that unless you roll really badly, you should get enough hits to justify the attack. That is my opinion.

Overall, I think Guidance Chip works on a lot of ordnance carriers to help make any ordnance carrier worth while. It doesn't make it amazing every time, but it ups the averages of the amount of damage you do. Yes, there will be times when it flubs, but there will be more times when you do enough damage to justify using it.

Total side note, but what about Wedge w/ Guidance Chip, Proton Torpedo, and Crack Shot? Reduce the enemy's evade dice by 1 and then reduce one of their evades for a good chance of blasting someone! OK...maybe not top level working, but still pretty dang neat.

@Buddyfett

The argument could be made that LRS is a decent pick for low pilot skill Bombers that move before the enemy ships and would be out of range to use target lock.

Thread tracers is still a thing you could use in place though.

Anyway, even if you don't like LRS, Imperial Veterans comes with 3 new pilot cards for bombers. The new ace Tomax is pretty fantastic. And PS 5 Gamma Veterans can take Deadeye, so can forgo target locks altogether. You can use the new cards for your old models. I don't know if you consider new pilot cards to use with the old ships is something new. I only own two of the old bombers, so getting 2 of these new packs gets me all I need, but I suppose people that already own 4 bombers might be annoyed.

Hmmmmmm, Gammas with Deadeye, Chimps, and Proton Torps? Yes, please.

Suddenly, everybody's chimpin'.

Hmmmmmm, Gammas with Deadeye, Chimps, and Proton Torps? Yes, please.

Suddenly, everybody's chimpin'.

First squad I make with 'em is gonna be called '1,000 Typewriters'.

Mine's going to be called "Chimpin' Ain't Easy"

I think I like LRS bomber builds way better than GC builds. LRS makes it so easy to stack TL and Focus on a shot, and that TL+Focus for a Homing Missile (my preferred ordnance) is substantially better than a TL + GC that is the alternative. The LRS build loses flexibility, but I'm having trouble imagining situations where it would matter. Most TIE Bomber builds are around 25 points, and most of the early game Target Locks you're going to put out are going to be on stuff that's either more expensive (aces) or critical to a squad's function (stuff like Howlrunner or Biggs). If you force either out of formation because of the TL, it's a win, and you can still switch Target Locks at the Range 3 engagement to someone of lower PS if you want. You won't get to stack the Focus, but if that's the cost of inducing inefficiency in the opponent's squad, it's not a bad one. Additionally, you can use that Focus for defense in that opening round. Sometimes higher PS ships will do so much damage that you'd be dead without that Focus token, and you can use it for defense and still have the TL to fire your warheads.

To clarify, this is coming from the point of view of someone who puts a lot of value on early damage, and that's exactly what LRS improves. GC certainly is more useful on a high PS "ordnance ace" that expects to be firing 3+ shots over the course of a game, and has the PS to get a reliable early TL, but I think that might be the weakest way to use ordnance overall, because you'll be fighting a lot more at close range where the ordnance advantage isn't as strong, and traditional arc-dodging is a stronger counter. To me, Ordnance is all about the first turn, where you're at range 3 and shooting 4 dice with mods vs AGI instead of 2 or 3 with mods against +1 AGI. That's a huge swing. Once you get close, all the advantages of missiles and torps fade, and all their disadvantages get much bigger. LRS plays to the phase of the game where ordnance is strongest.

Hmmmmmm, Gammas with Deadeye, Chimps, and Proton Torps? Yes, please.

Suddenly, everybody's chimpin'.

First squad I make with 'em is gonna be called '1,000 Typewriters'.

I wish I could like this more than once

#

This would average a 3,4375 damage per torpedoes if my maths are not wrong. If my maths are wrong, it means it is more average damage!

To clarify, this is coming from the point of view of someone who puts a lot of value on early damage, and that's exactly what LRS improves. GC certainly is more useful on a high PS "ordnance ace" that expects to be firing 3+ shots over the course of a game, and has the PS to get a reliable early TL, but I think that might be the weakest way to use ordnance overall, because you'll be fighting a lot more at close range where the ordnance advantage isn't as strong, and traditional arc-dodging is a stronger counter. To me, Ordnance is all about the first turn, where you're at range 3 and shooting 4 dice with mods vs AGI instead of 2 or 3 with mods against +1 AGI. That's a huge swing. Once you get close, all the advantages of missiles and torps fade, and all their disadvantages get much bigger. LRS plays to the phase of the game where ordnance is strongest.

I will say that GC does make a single ordnance support ship a possibility. It doesn't have to be an ace, but Tomax Bren comes to mind. He's got the PS to get the TL and can use Crack Shot during the shot. I wouldn't load him up with more than say 1 ordnance and EM, but he gets to use Crack Shot after he's shot his load.

Way back in Waves 1 & 2 I used to use a formation of Tie Fighters and Vader w/ Backstabber on the flanks. Vader had Concussion Missile that would do good damage with a Focus and flip a hit. It was an Alpha Strike that was followed up by Backstabber and any of the Tie Fighters that needed to finish the target off. It was brutally effective. I did try swapping Backstabber out for a Tie Bomber at the time and it had decent results. I think you could probably do something similar with a Tie Bomber with Guidance Chip. The ability to slap one ship for a lot of damage in the first round seriously hurts your opponent, even if it's not their main ship. Take a solid support ship and smash it will hurt his plans. You would probably need something other than a Scimitar to make it work, though.

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Guidance Chips (0)

Captain Jonus (22)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This would average a 3,4375 damage per torpedoes if my maths are not wrong. If my maths are wrong, it means it is more average damage!

It would be more efficient to go with 4 Gammas with LRS and Homing Missiles than Jonus. Jonus is a weak point in the list and will be blasted out probably before your 2nd missile is fired. I have used him a lot and this is what happens. Also, you get good dice results with Homing Missile w/ TL and Focus, but with 4 ships instead of just 3.