The idea of a Y-wing with R3-A2, tactician and TLT is just utterly nasty. It might take some setup but dumping 4 stress tokens on a ship using a ship that costs 22 points might be a tad too crazy, and utter death to most aces.

28 points. Did you forget to add the points for the TLT? Also, it wouldn't work, as the BTL-A4 title can't exactly be combined with a BTL-S3 title which would provide the crew slot. The Y-Wing with crew would get ONE attack, primary OR secondary.

But yeah. The standard Y-Wing in the game is supposed to be the BTL-S3 (with the second crew being the turret gunner). That said, a Y-Wing with both Crew and Astromech sounds like it could be a lot of fun and be very thematic.

Edit: Found it! TLT + Tactician + R3-A2 +BTL-A4 = 5 stress. Ya. Don't think we want that possibility.

See above. You can't have more than one title on a ship, so you wouldn't be able to combine a hypothetical BTL-S3 title which adds a crew slot with the BTL-A4 title. Nothing to worry about here.

What if the title that gave the Y-Wing crew removed the astro slot?

I'd rather say we remove the Turret slot... Because guess where the Crewmember sits, right in the gunner seat.

Now that would not be so OP suddenly, and could make you use ordnance instead!

So my suggestion: add crew slot and another torpedo slot, remove turret.

At -2 points!

No - quite the opposite - the person who sat in the crew seat's job was to operate the turret and nothing else - a BTL-S3 title which adds some kind of crew option needs to make a turret a mandatory condition of equipping the card

But the standard issue Y-Wing we have has a turret and therefore soneone operating it. And unless the S3 adds a seat somehow to the ship, so it can have a crew of 3 i would suppose that we could not take a crewmember until now because it was implied that the backseater was occupied with gunning instead of having other game effects.

This is true for many ships in X-Wing. The K-Wing has a Crewmember in the second Cockpit = Crew slot and a 2 manned Turrets = one turret upgrade and the PWT i suppose!

I guess the turret represents both the weapon and the gunner that's operating it - that's why the BTL-A4 title fixes the turret in a forward firing position, because the A4 was a single seater variant with no-one to operate the turret other than the pilot.

That's also why if the Y-Wing gains a crew slot it should be a limited slot - the guy in the crew seat was a gunner - so any crew abilities should be restricted to things that synergize with the turret - that way you avoid treading on the HWK's toes, keep control over interactions with astromechs, and keep with the theme of what the BTL-A3 actually did.

The way I would visualise it is that the turret upgrade represents a turret operated by a rookie gunner straight out of flight school - the crew slot contains an experienced veteran gunner who has learned a few tricks - much the same way as we get generic and named pilots

Crew on /fo : yes

Crew on Y-wing : no

We don't need tactician TLT stressbot stresshogs.

Edit: Found it! TLT + Tactician + R3-A2 +BTL-A4 = 5 stress. Ya. Don't think we want that possibility.

See above. You can't have more than one title on a ship, so you wouldn't be able to combine a hypothetical BTL-S3 title which adds a crew slot with the BTL-A4 title. Nothing to worry about here.

it doesnt matter if it's 5 stress or 3 stress, all of that stress at once is still something to worry about, are you serious? If you hit a ship with 3 stress at once, god forbid it has a stress already, that ship isn't doing anything for the next 3-4 turns, ASSUMING it survives that long. It's an incredibly overpowered combo and i would sooner die than let that be a thing the game lets you do, ESPECIALLY on the single most successful Rebel ship at the moment. Y-Wing is doing amazing now. It might get more pilots at some point in the far future, but what's being suggested isn't a fix, because the Y-Wing isn't broken.

The Y-wing does not need any more help. It is a grand ship that sees lots of play. Could the Rebel Y-wing use more pilots? Sure. It is sad that a Wave 1 ship still only has 4 pilot cards assigned to it.

Crew on /fo : yes

Crew on Y-wing : no

We don't need tactician TLT stressbot stresshogs.

Tacticians didn't sit in the gunner's chair - neither did defensive droids, wookies with hydro spanners, Sullustan co-pilots etc

Gunners sat in the gunners chair

What if the title that gave the Y-Wing crew removed the astro slot?

I'd rather say we remove the Turret slot... Because guess where the Crewmember sits, right in the gunner seat.

Now that would not be so OP suddenly, and could make you use ordnance instead!

So my suggestion: add crew slot and another torpedo slot, remove turret.

At -2 points!

No - quite the opposite - the person who sat in the crew seat's job was to operate the turret and nothing else - a BTL-S3 title which adds some kind of crew option needs to make a turret a mandatory condition of equipping the card

But the standard issue Y-Wing we have has a turret and therefore soneone operating it. And unless the S3 adds a seat somehow to the ship, so it can have a crew of 3 i would suppose that we could not take a crewmember until now because it was implied that the backseater was occupied with gunning instead of having other game effects.

This is true for many ships in X-Wing. The K-Wing has a Crewmember in the second Cockpit = Crew slot and a 2 manned Turrets = one turret upgrade and the PWT i suppose!

I guess the turret represents both the weapon and the gunner that's operating it - that's why the BTL-A4 title fixes the turret in a forward firing position, because the A4 was a single seater variant with no-one to operate the turret other than the pilot.

That's also why if the Y-Wing gains a crew slot it should be a limited slot - the guy in the crew seat was a gunner - so any crew abilities should be restricted to things that synergize with the turret - that way you avoid treading on the HWK's toes, keep control over interactions with astromechs, and keep with the theme of what the BTL-A3 actually did.

The way I would visualise it is that the turret upgrade represents a turret operated by a rookie gunner straight out of flight school - the crew slot contains an experienced veteran gunner who has learned a few tricks - much the same way as we get generic and named pilots

In game terms an Astromech-Crewmember combo would not be so bad, on a 2 attack ship with torp slots. But it would most likely not destroy the meta! (Btw, Dengar gets the combo with Scum droids AND PWT)

That's why i proposed to remove the turret slot and give it a crewmember at -2 points. This would make for a very cheap Y-Wing at 16 points where you could have interesting support options, or save enough points to get ordnance going, all while not having a lot of primary weapon firepower and preventing insane tactician BTL-A4 Turret combos.

You could still drop 2 stress at R2 with a tactician i suppose, (But so can Zeb Orrelios with TLT/ Tactician, or the Stresswing. And the Y would not even have such reliable firepower with no TLT.

I understand that there is an outcry as soon as people talk about giving the Y-Wing another option, but then again that's probably more because they are afraid of mass TLTs with Recon Specialist or TLT stress combos, and therefore not so much of the ship itself but rather from the weapon option!

The more important thing however would be to give the ship some new pilot options with EPT slots, maybe even reprint Horton Salm/Dutch with EPT slots.

Yes indeed, that's also what i would think. A Turret represemts the turret plus the crewmember manning it. So you could give the ship a Crewmember, but then the turret remains unmanned because the guy is manning the scanners, targeting the torps, dropping Bombs or plotting a new course (okay that's an Astromechs job technically spoken).

That's why i proposed to remove the turret slot and give it a crewmember at -2 points. This would make for a very cheap Y-Wing at 16 points where you could have interesting support options, or save enough points to get ordnance going, all while not having a lot of primary weapon firepower and preventing insane tactician BTL-A4 Turret combos.

You could still drop 2 stress at R2 with a tactician i suppose.

The more important thing however would be to give the ship some new pilot options with EPT slots, maybe even reprint Horton Salm/Dutch with EPT slots.

I understand why you suggested it - but it just doesn't fit thematically - Y-Wings with crew seats were BTL-S3s which were equipped with turrets that were operated by gunners. That was the only config and crew for a 2 seat Y-Wing.

There's a far simpler way to give the wishbone a crew slot, avoid broken interactions, and not tread on the toes of the 16 point support ship that the Rebels have already got - Y-Wing Only crew

it doesn't matter if it's 5 stress or 3 stress, all of that stress at once is still something to worry about, are you serious? If you hit a ship with 3 stress at once, god forbid it has a stress already, that ship isn't doing anything for the next 3-4 turns, ASSUMING it survives that long. It's an incredibly overpowered combo and i would sooner die than let that be a thing the game lets you do, ESPECIALLY on the single most successful Rebel ship at the moment...

It would be three stress maximum (and a maximum of two damage) at RANGE TWO, PRIMARY ARC ONLY.

To be blunt, if you see such a ship on the other side of the table from you and allow it to catch you at range two in it's primary arc, then you deserve all the stress you get.

REBEL crew and ASTROMECHS would be utterly bork. Utterly. If the rebel crew themselves weren't already utterly sky borking aready. Cough Ghost cough more large rebel turret ship madness.

Srsly 1 ship build yo? thats not flying.

I'm very salty.

R2d2 with Nein numb on a tlt y, skirt the edge of the battle regenerating shields while a tlt y with tac and r3a2 (3 stress to target with none received, remember the crew slot would be a title.) And maybe round it out with a rec spec r5p9 with whatever else you want? Yeah I'd be down with that.

Sarcasm aside I do agree somewhat with the op. We only see ys as generic tlts or generic stresshogs, a way to varietize it's roles would help the game, but I think it's low on the priority list.

Yes indeed, that's also what i would think. A Turret represemts the turret plus the crewmember manning it. So you could give the ship a Crewmember, but then the turret remains unmanned because the guy is manning the scanners, targeting the torps, dropping Bombs or plotting a new course (okay that's an Astromechs job technically spoken).

That's why i proposed to remove the turret slot and give it a crewmember at -2 points. This would make for a very cheap Y-Wing at 16 points where you could have interesting support options, or save enough points to get ordnance going, all while not having a lot of primary weapon firepower and preventing insane tactician BTL-A4 Turret combos.

You could still drop 2 stress at R2 with a tactician i suppose.

The more important thing however would be to give the ship some new pilot options with EPT slots, maybe even reprint Horton Salm/Dutch with EPT slots.

I understand why you suggested it - but it just doesn't fit thematically - Y-Wings with crew seats were BTL-S3s which were equipped with turrets that were operated by gunners. That was the only config and crew for a 2 seat Y-Wing.

There's a far simpler way to give the wishbone a crew slot, avoid broken interactions, and not tread on the toes of the 16 point support ship that the Rebels have already got - Y-Wing Only crew

I think that it does not make sense the other way round. I can't think of any ship that has crew and a turret slot if it is a two-seater except the HWK, which is supposed to have more advanced avionics than other ships fluff-wise, so maybe the Pilot or Co-Pilot find more time to support and fire the turret...

And i also think that one ship only crew is pretty much a waste to bring out., along with an extra title so that this ship can take it. I don't see that happening.

It does make a lot of sense however to just add someone to a two-seat ship that is not a gunner nor will use the gun but who will instead do other duties, like in a lot of older Jet fighters (the F-14 for example). That's where other crew can step in and that also makes a lot more sense gamewise. Because it will not break the meta like that.

It would be alike to the Tie Shuttle Title which takes away all Bombs and Missiles and gives two crew seats. Just that here, it is only one, and you take away one of the Y-Wings best assets (while ordnance is still a bit meh), therefore the -2 reduction.

The -2 is not mandatory however. And i would probably make the title cost 0 and give the crew a 2 point reduction instead, so we could still not have a16 point Y-Wing, just have more motivation to get some crew on it like it is supposed to!

They might fear that this takes away the Attack shuttle's or HWK's position. However those two can keep their Turret and at least the HWK is such a poor option that it probably needs help itself to get relevant in the meta. Y-wing Crew or not would not change anything there really!

I've seen people suggest that a small ship with a crew slot, turret, and astromech would be overpowered.

Subtract the astromech slot from your list and you've the K-Wing. I doubt there are many out there who claim the K-Wing is overpowered.

But the astromech slot is what completes the insanity. R2-D2 on Miranda would be absurd. R5-P9 + Recon Specialist would also be absurd on anything with a crew slot and mech slot. And these are just things from off the top of my head. I'm sure there's gotta be an insane combo or 2 for R3-A2 + crew as well.

While the Y-wing is lacking a bit in pilots, it certainly is not in usage. For that reason, I don't forsee it being revisited for a long while.

Edit: Found it! TLT + Tactician + R3-A2 +BTL-A4 = 5 stress. Ya. Don't think we want that possibility.

Not sure that would work, Tactician (2 from TLT), R3-A2 (1), and you can't have 2 titles so you give up the double tap. so 3 stress at range 2, 1 stress at range 3 and 1 stress at range 1. Not sure if this is broken or not. Ion stresshog give 2 stress and an ion at range 2 that seems worse than 3 stress because you can't clear the stress until after you execute the white straight from the ion affect.

edit: ninja'd

Edit: Found it! TLT + Tactician + R3-A2 +BTL-A4 = 5 stress. Ya. Don't think we want that possibility.

See above. You can't have more than one title on a ship, so you wouldn't be able to combine a hypothetical BTL-S3 title which adds a crew slot with the BTL-A4 title. Nothing to worry about here.

it doesnt matter if it's 5 stress or 3 stress, all of that stress at once is still something to worry about, are you serious? If you hit a ship with 3 stress at once, god forbid it has a stress already, that ship isn't doing anything for the next 3-4 turns, ASSUMING it survives that long. It's an incredibly overpowered combo and i would sooner die than let that be a thing the game lets you do, ESPECIALLY on the single most successful Rebel ship at the moment. Y-Wing is doing amazing now. It might get more pilots at some point in the far future, but what's being suggested isn't a fix, because the Y-Wing isn't broken.

Not sure if this is broken or not. Ion stresshog give 2 stress and an ion at range 2 that seems worse than 3 stress because you can't clear the stress until after you execute the white straight from the ion affect.

(...)

They might fear that this takes away the Attack shuttle's or HWK's position. However those two can keep their Turret and at least the HWK is such a poor option that it probably needs help itself to get relevant in the meta. Y-wing Crew or not would not change anything there really!

1) i have all factions

2) sarcasm on

Did I get your argument right there??

And as the HWK has problems (dial, worthless primary), and might need a little push, it is not a problem to overpower the Y and let it surpass the HWK. Because than the rebel players certainly are in need of and will get a HWK push as well.

And while we are on it we might also do a T65 push, and ..and...

3) sarcasm off. Powercreep anyone?

Yes indeed, that's also what i would think. A Turret represemts the turret plus the crewmember manning it. So you could give the ship a Crewmember, but then the turret remains unmanned because the guy is manning the scanners, targeting the torps, dropping Bombs or plotting a new course (okay that's an Astromechs job technically spoken).

That's why i proposed to remove the turret slot and give it a crewmember at -2 points. This would make for a very cheap Y-Wing at 16 points where you could have interesting support options, or save enough points to get ordnance going, all while not having a lot of primary weapon firepower and preventing insane tactician BTL-A4 Turret combos.

You could still drop 2 stress at R2 with a tactician i suppose.

The more important thing however would be to give the ship some new pilot options with EPT slots, maybe even reprint Horton Salm/Dutch with EPT slots.

I understand why you suggested it - but it just doesn't fit thematically - Y-Wings with crew seats were BTL-S3s which were equipped with turrets that were operated by gunners. That was the only config and crew for a 2 seat Y-Wing.

There's a far simpler way to give the wishbone a crew slot, avoid broken interactions, and not tread on the toes of the 16 point support ship that the Rebels have already got - Y-Wing Only crew

I think that it does not make sense the other way round. I can't think of any ship that has crew and a turret slot if it is a two-seater except the HWK, which is supposed to have more advanced avionics than other ships fluff-wise, so maybe the Pilot or Co-Pilot find more time to support and fire the turret...

And i also think that one ship only crew is pretty much a waste to bring out., along with an extra title so that this ship can take it. I don't see that happening.

It does make a lot of sense however to just add someone to a two-seat ship that is not a gunner nor will use the gun but who will instead do other duties, like in a lot of older Jet fighters (the F-14 for example). That's where other crew can step in and that also makes a lot more sense gamewise. Because it will not break the meta like that.

It would be alike to the Tie Shuttle Title which takes away all Bombs and Missiles and gives two crew seats. Just that here, it is only one, and you take away one of the Y-Wings best assets (while ordnance is still a bit meh), therefore the -2 reduction.

The -2 is not mandatory however. And i would probably make the title cost 0 and give the crew a 2 point reduction instead, so we could still not have a16 point Y-Wing, just have more motivation to get some crew on it like it is supposed to!

They might fear that this takes away the Attack shuttle's or HWK's position. However those two can keep their Turret and at least the HWK is such a poor option that it probably needs help itself to get relevant in the meta. Y-wing Crew or not would not change anything there really!

I get what you're saying, and I'm all for gameplay requirements trumping the fluff. However creating a new variant of the Y-Wing that never existed in the fluff in order to circumvent the shortcomings of a different ship is an incredibly convoluted way of going about it - if the HWK is under-performing then fix it - don't consign it to the scrapheap.

The Y-Wing was never "Meant to" carry crew - it had a gunner who operated the turret on specific variants and that's not really the same thing

(...)

They might fear that this takes away the Attack shuttle's or HWK's position. However those two can keep their Turret and at least the HWK is such a poor option that it probably needs help itself to get relevant in the meta. Y-wing Crew or not would not change anything there really!

1) i have all factions

2) sarcasm on

Did I get your argument right there??

And as the HWK has problems (dial, worthless primary), and might need a little push, it is not a problem to overpower the Y and let it surpass the HWK. Because than the rebel players certainly are in need of and will get a HWK push as well.

And while we are on it we might also do a T65 push, and ..and...

3) sarcasm off. Powercreep anyone?

IF the Y-Wing is overpowered, it would certainly not be by a creew slot if you take away its turret like i suggested. (The reason would be TLT actually)

The T-65 is still in need of a proper title and fix, because IA is not the last word spoken on that. Expect it to happen whether you like it or not!

And the HWK has always been a rather poor choice. Nobody really cares for the ship, but there is no reason not to give it a little nudge, and it should certainly not be brought up as a reason not to do anything for other ships

FFG is fixing a lot of ships one or two at a time. Advanced, A-Wing, Defender, Bomber... because they are crap, and if you want to call ths powercreep, be my guest!

I also play all 3 factions just fyi!

Yes indeed, that's also what i would think. A Turret represemts the turret plus the crewmember manning it. So you could give the ship a Crewmember, but then the turret remains unmanned because the guy is manning the scanners, targeting the torps, dropping Bombs or plotting a new course (okay that's an Astromechs job technically spoken).

That's why i proposed to remove the turret slot and give it a crewmember at -2 points. This would make for a very cheap Y-Wing at 16 points where you could have interesting support options, or save enough points to get ordnance going, all while not having a lot of primary weapon firepower and preventing insane tactician BTL-A4 Turret combos.

You could still drop 2 stress at R2 with a tactician i suppose.

The more important thing however would be to give the ship some new pilot options with EPT slots, maybe even reprint Horton Salm/Dutch with EPT slots.

I understand why you suggested it - but it just doesn't fit thematically - Y-Wings with crew seats were BTL-S3s which were equipped with turrets that were operated by gunners. That was the only config and crew for a 2 seat Y-Wing.

There's a far simpler way to give the wishbone a crew slot, avoid broken interactions, and not tread on the toes of the 16 point support ship that the Rebels have already got - Y-Wing Only crew

I think that it does not make sense the other way round. I can't think of any ship that has crew and a turret slot if it is a two-seater except the HWK, which is supposed to have more advanced avionics than other ships fluff-wise, so maybe the Pilot or Co-Pilot find more time to support and fire the turret...

And i also think that one ship only crew is pretty much a waste to bring out., along with an extra title so that this ship can take it. I don't see that happening.

It does make a lot of sense however to just add someone to a two-seat ship that is not a gunner nor will use the gun but who will instead do other duties, like in a lot of older Jet fighters (the F-14 for example). That's where other crew can step in and that also makes a lot more sense gamewise. Because it will not break the meta like that.

It would be alike to the Tie Shuttle Title which takes away all Bombs and Missiles and gives two crew seats. Just that here, it is only one, and you take away one of the Y-Wings best assets (while ordnance is still a bit meh), therefore the -2 reduction.

The -2 is not mandatory however. And i would probably make the title cost 0 and give the crew a 2 point reduction instead, so we could still not have a16 point Y-Wing, just have more motivation to get some crew on it like it is supposed to!

They might fear that this takes away the Attack shuttle's or HWK's position. However those two can keep their Turret and at least the HWK is such a poor option that it probably needs help itself to get relevant in the meta. Y-wing Crew or not would not change anything there really!

I get what you're saying, and I'm all for gameplay requirements trumping the fluff. However creating a new variant of the Y-Wing that never existed in the fluff in order to circumvent the shortcomings of a different ship is an incredibly convoluted way of going about it - if the HWK is under-performing then fix it - don't consign it to the scrapheap.

The Y-Wing was never "Meant to" carry crew - it had a gunner who operated the turret on specific variants and that's not really the same thing

This is all based on the premise that we would get an S3 variant with crew like someone else suggested (and he didnt suggest any limitations, just add a crew slot). I don't say we need this actually, but i wanted to give my view on the most practical way of achieving this IF we get such a variant.

It's an absolute sin that Davish "Pops" Krail isn't in the game. His performance in the first trench run seems to be direct inspiration for the "Wingman" card.

Scratch all those pilots in the original post and replace them with :

Norra Wexley (y-wing) and Thane Kyrell (x-wing) and I'd be happy.

I would definitely be into seeing these characters show up.

It's an absolute sin that Davish "Pops" Krail isn't in the game. His performance in the first trench run seems to be direct inspiration for the "Wingman" card.

If we do it he needs an Elite slot and a pilot ability that meshes with Stay On Target

It's an absolute sin that Davish "Pops" Krail isn't in the game. His performance in the first trench run seems to be direct inspiration for the "Wingman" card.

If we do it he needs an Elite slot and a pilot ability that meshes with Stay On Target

Well if we get a crew slot Y-Wing or not does indeed not matter a lot (it is not even on my wishlist), but new pilots with EPT slot and if only possible also a reprint for the old ones with one would seem the most important fix for the Y-Wing. Every other ship can be fixed in a different way, but Dutch and Horton really would need a reprint with EPT. The EPT droid is no solution because it adds cost to theirs and takes up the valuable astromech slot.

Let's be honest, the Y-Wing has a lot of good options and is not the ship most in need of more.

But it absolutely lacks pilots and is scandalous that the rebel Wave 1 named ones had no elite slot. That has always been unjust and i am still not sure if that was not just a mistake that FFG let slip through to production and that did only happen because they were not prepared for such a huge success of their game, so balancing was not yet a real issue back then.

The Y wing needs a couple of pilots for rebels with an EPT. It's the one thing they are lacking, and it's probably the only ship in the game that does not have one. the scum pilots have it, the rebels need it too.

I agree the Y-Wing does not need a crew option, as the second seat belonged to the turret gunner (or sometimes a passenger just being ferried along on a non-combat excursion).

However...

1) The Y-Wing does need more named Rebel pilots with EPTs. And why not a Leia Organa pilot? The Y-Wing was her ship of choice in the old Marvel comics series... It would be nice to have her actually participate in this game along Han, Chewie, Lando, and Luke.

2) Thematically, we need a way to make the ion cannon more desirable than the Twin Laser Turret (lasers instead of blasters?) so how about long-range ion turrets or rapid-fire ion turrets? Anyway, I propose some new turret options.

3) More astromechs. As these can be used by the X-, E-, and Y-Wings, the sky is the limit. How about one that helps deal more damage? Or one that removes stress? Perhaps a Y-Wing-only astromech that boosts turret range and/or damage (providing a possible "fix" for my second point)?

Hopefully, we get at least one new Y-Wing in the sure-to-arrive Rebel Veterans pack.

What if the title that gave the Y-Wing crew removed the astro slot?

Not a good canon situation. Don't prefer it.