Can the player flying Tarn Mison and the R7 cause the player with Omega Leader to reroll his attack dice if Omega Leader has a target lock on Tarn?
Omega Leader vs Tarn Mison with an R7 astromech
No. Omega Leader's ability prevents the locked ship from modifying any dice when attacking or attacked by Omega, so that would include modifying the attack dice as a defender.
Edited by PandademicI would be wrong about this
Edited by ShenanniganOmega leaders card text only applies to the enemy ship modifying their dice.
That's not what the card says however.
Enemy ships that you have locked cannot modify any dice when attacking you or defending against your attacks.
It says any, so that means dice rolled for the Omega Leader as well.
I would be wrong about this
Wanted to address your edit. ![]()
You could actually be right. This is why the debate of RAW vs RAI gets so tricky. I could see it that FFG intended Omega leader to only be talking about cards rolled by the ship that it has a TL on. In that case the word any actually means both red and green dice.
But given how the card is worded, RAW we have no good reason to play it that way, we have to do what the card says to do, not what we think it means.
Edited by VanorDM
It says any, so that means dice rolled for the Omega Leader as well.This is why the debate of RAW vs RAI gets so tricky. I could see it that FFG intended Omega leader to only be talking about cards rolled by the ship that it has a TL on. In that case the word any actually means both red and green dice.
But given how the card is worded, RAW we have no good reason to play it that way, we have to do what the card says to do, not what we think it means.
The way I see it, Omega Leader target locks an enemy ship. That ship now can't modify either its attack dice or Omega Leader's defense dice when attacking Omega Leader. And it also can't modify Omega Leader's attack dice or its own defense dice if Omega Leader attacks it.
But the last line of your post implies this is incorrect. Am I missing something here?
But the last line of your post implies this is incorrect.
No, I think you're right and saying the same thing I am.
I do think it's maybe not likely but possible that it's not supposed to work that way. I can't give a good logical reason why it wouldn't, and the text is completely clear. So there's really no question how it works RAW.
I'm just saying that in theory FFG could mean 'any' to be only dice rolled by the defender, and not dice rolled by Omega Leader. But there's no good argument that would counter the way the card is written, only that sometimes FFG isn't completely clear what they intend when they write the text of a card.
If I read only R7's and Omega's ability and really went deep into it, then there could be an argument because the defender is only selecting which dice to modify; the attacker is the one actually rerolling (modifying) them.
However,I would also need to apply that same logic to the step 3 of the attack phase (reference guide):
"The defender can resolve any card abilities that allow him to modify the attack dice."
So if I wanted to apply the such strick wording, then R7's ability could never be triggered, at all.
So no, despite my best efforts, I can't prove a case where R7's ability could be used against Omega Leader if he has a target lock on the defender.
Rerolling dice is one of the ways you can modify dice. The R7 astromech forces the attacker to reroll dice. Therefore, the attacker is forced to modify dice and Omega Leader's ability does not trigger.
This might not be the correct interpretation, but I think it is RAW. But it is important to note that the opposite might be RAW as well.
This might not be the correct interpretation, but I think it is RAW.
No, because the ship with the target lock is the one that's causing the dice to be modified, in this case rerolled.
Who actually does the rolling doesn't matter. What matters is where the effect is coming from.
No, because the ship with the target lock is the one that's causing the dice to be modified, in this case rerolled.Who actually does the rolling doesn't matter. What matters is where the effect is coming from.This might not be the correct interpretation, but I think it is RAW.
The section on modifying dice clearly explains how you modify through rerolling. You pick up the dice and roll them. That is one way of modifying them. So in this case, the attacker is modifying the dice because he rerolls them, not the defender. I'll admit that he [the attacker] is forced to, but that would only mean he is forced to modify his red dice.
Edited by LingulaAnd yet the fact remains that the defender cannot modify ANY dice. The use of the droid is making a modification, so it's not allowed.
You pick up the dice and roll them.
Again, who does the actual rolling doesn't matter. What matters is where the effect is coming from. If the effect is coming from the ship that OL has a TL on, then it is not allowed.
Again, who does the actual rolling doesn't matter. What matters is where the effect is coming from. If the effect is coming from the ship that OL has a TL on, then it is not allowed.You pick up the dice and roll them.
This is not supported by the text. R7 makes it clear who does the rerolling and the definition of modifying dice makes it clear that rerolling is modifying. And since we're in RAW territory here, that is what matters.
And since we're in RAW territory here, that is what matters.
And again... RAW it is the ship with R7 that is causing the modification.
And since we're in RAW territory here, that is what matters.
And again... RAW it is the ship with R7 that is causing the modification.
And RAW (from page 5) states "The defender can resolve any card abilities (insert R7 here) that allow him to modify the attack dice.".
So it seems that FFG consider the use of a defender's card ability to modify the attack dice to be a defender modification. As VanorDM has pointed out, the person doing the rolling is immaterial when it's the source of that roll that actually matters. And in the case of Tarn/R7, he simply can't force the reroll.
And again... RAW it is the ship with R7 that is causing the modification.And since we're in RAW territory here, that is what matters.
Yes, he is causing the modification, but not doing that modification. The card clearly states this. Modifications are adding results or changing or rerolling dice. The R7 astromech doesn't actually do any of these things itself, but forces the attacker to reroll. This is specifically mentioned on the card.
And when do you use R7? During the Defender Modifies Attack Dice step.
Instead of running this debate round in circles, why don't you email FFG for a definitive answer and post the reply here for all to see.
Yes, he is causing the modification, but not doing that modification.
There is no RAW distinction there. As Parravon points out the rules quite clearly state the Defender can modify the attacker's dice, but Omega Leader does not allow a ship he has a TL on to do that.
The modification is coming from the defender, who is doing the modification simply doesn't matter in the least, RAW.
Edit and Parravon is right... If you won't take our word for it email FFG. But I'm done posting the same thing over and over again just worded slightly differently each time.
Edited by VanorDMAs far as I know, all the abilities that let you force a reroll of your opponent's dice are worded that way (see R4-B11, Elusiveness), probably because if they just instructed you to reroll your opponent's dice, in a week we'd have a thread on here from somebody saying "My opponent touched my dice without waiting for my consent, so I killed him and his whole family with a folding chair. Now apparently I'm the *******??!?!"
If Wes Janson had VI could he stop Omega Leader from using his ability? Since they are both PS 8 I figure Veterian Instincts to allow him to shoot first.
If Wes Janson had VI could he stop Omega Leader from using his ability? Since they are both PS 8 I figure Veterian Instincts to allow him to shoot first.
Yep.
Even just Initiative would work in that case.
As a side note... Wes is great against Tie Advanced. Wes with VI strips Vader or other lower PS adv of their TL so they can't use ATC.