First off, I apologize for the excessive introduction to the actual topic. The thread title is basically a TL; DR if you don't want to see the rationale behind posing this question. Or you can look at the bolded questions a little further down. Anyway, onne complaint I've been seeing on these forums of late is that important cards like Comms Relay, Wired, Integrated Astromech, and Guidance Chip* only come in one blister with a single copy of the card. A lot of people seem to feel this represents some sort of shift on FFG's policy. I'd argue they're right- But it isn't the change they argue it is.

With two exceptions, small ship expansions have come with either 4 pilots and 5 different upgrade cards, or 6 pilots and 2 different upgrade cards (The Y-wing had 2 copies of proton torpedoes, the HWK-290 had an extra upgrade card because... reasons). The Tie Advanced Prototype, T-70 X-wing, and Tie/FO Fighter are not unusual there. However, they do seem to be part of a shift to more actively publishing fixes to existing mechanics on the part of FFG. Now, a number of people are peeved at the idea of having to get their fix-cards in new product. This inevitably leads to the arguments around the upgrade card system we've been having for a long time. To be honest, I'd written it off as the same way FFG approaches their other games- LCG expansions come with something for every faction. However, recently, one difference did occur to me- With one exception in the Star Wars LCG, every LCG expansion comes with as many copies of a card as you can legally run**.

Now, the maximum number of copies you can use of any one upgrade card varies between upgrade types as well as their costs. which would make this policy impractical to implement fully. But what if FFG included just one more copy of each non-unique upgrade included in an expansion? This would make most upgrades a lot more widely available, since you'd get what you needed for your new ship and enough for one more ship. Furthermore, excess copies could be traded away to other people. However, When FFG started releasing a set number of upgrade cards in each expansion, they presumably had a reason, most likely revenue-related. To make up for lost revenue, they'd have to increase the cost of each expansion. So, my question to the forums is, How would you feel if FFG increased the cost of all expansions, but also began including an extra copy of each non-unique upgrade card available in the expansion, and how much would you be willing to pay if they did?

*Which is also available in the punishing one expansion, but not everybody has been pouring over the What We Know threads, I guess.

** The sole exceptions to this policy are LCG Core sets and the Star Wars LCG expansion Edge of Darkness. In both cases, the goal is to provide a wealth of options as these products serve as introductions to the game.

The thing to remember, is that the LCG packs still do not have more than 60 cards per pack. FFG has been pretty adamant on how many upgrades come in a pack.

Also, patience has been rewarded in the past.

As long as they are not providing a fix, they provide cards needed for the ships in the package. It is reasonable and competitive. I do not see them changing this.

As a consumer, I do not want them changing this. If this was a game for a single season... maybe this would be the way to do it. As I prefer to be playing this game till 2020 and beyond, I need for there to be a viable and profitable long term plan. I do not see FFG gouging its customers for very high quality products. I will keep paying consistently for this or better quality and quantity of product.

$00.00

The thing to remember, is that the LCG packs still do not have more than 60 cards per pack. FFG has been pretty adamant on how many upgrades come in a pack.

Also, patience has been rewarded in the past.

True. Hence the idea of increasing MSRP.

Honestly, I'm not sure about this myself. I just thought it might be an opportunity for discussion.

(Didn't watch the video, but saw the title). We certainly can't stop these arguments can happening. But being able to bring up past dicussions might help draw them to a close sooner...

One can hope, anyway.

The thing to remember, is that the LCG packs still do not have more than 60 cards per pack. FFG has been pretty adamant on how many upgrades come in a pack.

Also, patience has been rewarded in the past.

True. Hence the idea of increasing MSRP.

Honestly, I'm not sure about this myself. I just thought it might be an opportunity for discussion.

(Didn't watch the video, but saw the title). We certainly can't stop these arguments can happening. But being able to bring up past dicussions might help draw them to a close sooner...

One can hope, anyway.

Depends a lot on the cards in the pack, there are cards I'd love to see more of and others that I have more than I'll ever use. If there were two prints of Stealth Device in every pack they came in I'd be drowning in the things by now

Personally I'd like to see upgrade cards distributed in a larger range of ships. Take Stay on Target and Engine Upgrade, both cards I don't have but would like to get. I've no interest in either of the Rebel freighters at this time and probably won't for the foreseeable future. However I do want to get all of the ESB Bounty Hunters, so when the Hounds Tooth came along it provided an alternative source for those two cards. That's something I'd like to see with future expansions, more sources for existing cards, particularly cards that currently only exist in one expansion pack.

I think a good way to do things is to release a card as a singleton in one pack, see how it does, and if it's a must-have upgrade, to release it in another pack for another faction.

So I'd actually prefer it if Guidance Chip was in Punishing One only, and the GC card replaced in the TAP pack with a single copy of AutoThrusters.

This, BTW, is similar to what they did with Advanced Sensors, Stealth Device, and Engine Upgrade.

The last thing I want is for FFG to up the price of a small blister by (say) a buck or two just so that I can get an extra copy of a card as phenomenal as Marksmanship.

Oh! And along those lines: I remember when everyone was drooling over Munitions Failsafe. It was _the_ must-have card in Wave 4.

And a lot of people didn't like the Z-95.

But. *ahem* Munitions Failsafe didn't seem to do the trick. So I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude towards Guidance Chip.

But! While we're on the subject: I'd gladly give up bases and pegs if it meant an extra copy of a non unique card. I'm drowning in bases and pegs.

I'm starting to paint ships so it doesn't bother me as much as some others I guess. On the other hand, there are cards the come exclusively with ships I have no interest in and never seem to be stock with singles resellers.

The pricing is based on the model not the cards and cardboard. Extra upgrades would not cost extra on the pack.

The pricing is based on the model not the cards and cardboard. Extra upgrades would not cost extra on the pack.

Because you know FFG's shipping and packaging costs.

Actually FFG does seem to have a pricing is based on: The unit package size, Number of pilot+upgrade cards, Number of fibreboard sprues.

Most SRP $14.95 blisters have the following pack list: 4 pilot cards, 5 upgrade cards, 2 fibreboard sprues for dialis, bases, tokens, etc (there maybe extra cards for rules); The notable exceptions are the TIE Fighter, TIE/fo and TIE Interceptor which have: 6 pilot cards, 2 upgrade cards, 2 fibreboard sprues for dialis, bases, tokens, etc (extra rule card in the TIE Interceptor).

All SRP $19.95 blisters have the following pack list: 4 pilot cards, 9 upgrade cards, 2-3 fibreboard sprues for dialis, bases, tokens, etc (there maybe extra cards for rules)

Boxed sets have slight more variation usually of a 2-3 upgrade cards but are generally the same.

Ultimatly, the shipping size a ship requires seems to be the biggest factor when determining pricing, and FFG is happy to throw in more cards in larger packages.

They'd have to start including an extra ship before I am willing to pay more!

But that's a model they already use on the XXXX Packs.

If your not playing in tournaments just print out or photo copy cards. Then get heavy stock paper and cut it to size of printed out card. Insert both into plastic card sleeve. Cheap and works just fine for casual play.

FFG is not going to change their current business model. The game designers have said in interviews they have no plans to do so in the future at least. FFG is making money hand over fist and is pretty much selling out on everything when they print it.

Companies always say they won't do X, up until they do X.

$0 because I'm patient with my purchases, understanding that extra copies end up in other packs I'm eventually going to buy as well.

There would be no reduction in the amount of complaining. The complaints would just switch to some version of:

"I just want to fly a 6x V-Wing swarm, but now I'm expected to pay $2 extra per blister for 18x copies of Anodized Servos????!"

If your not playing in tournaments just print out or photo copy cards. Then get heavy stock paper and cut it to size of printed out card. Insert both into plastic card sleeve. Cheap and works just fine for casual play.

FFG is not going to change their current business model. The game designers have said in interviews they have no plans to do so in the future at least. FFG is making money hand over fist and is pretty much selling out on everything when they print it.

Hey, preaching to the choir here (Although proxying is uncomfortable for me. Dunno why, I didn't mind the Red Solo Cup Drop Pods. It's probably the card element reminding me of my magic days). I just wanted to see how other people would approach the idea

I purchase minis, not cards. So 0.0 bucks. I De - Tox after playing Magic...

Eh they try their level best and they do well enough to earn my money. I think the larger $20 blisters are the sort of extra upgrade card packages already. Also the ship packages like aces and large ships. Feels like the higher the msrp of a kit the less throwing in a deck of cards adds to the price. It makes sense really. I can't imagine collating a few specific cards is actually easy.

I think they could add more value products like the most wanted pack.

Successfull product models for miniatures games are extremely tricky to come up with and implement. X-wing is pretty cutting edge in terms of how smoothly it patches the game and keeps our old plastic competitive. Granted it has side effects but so does everything else.

I think the deal with the TFA ships is they will be including more of those cards in future packs and the TFA line was rushed out quickly.

The pricing is based on the model not the cards and cardboard. Extra upgrades would not cost extra on the pack.

Because you know FFG's shipping and packaging costs.

You can figure out the pattern with FFG's model pricing for X-wing if you take a look at the historical data. Slightly larger ships go up from $15 to $20 while the bigger large ships move up from $30 to $40. To add in a smaller ship model like in the Raider or the upcoming Ghost add $10 to the base package ($90 for corvette sized model / $40 for decimator sized model). It is not calculus here.

More important to me is that they spread the really popular upgrades across factions!!

I only play Imperial, so having to buy starviper, YT1300 and K-wing for AT, EU and conner net annoys me. Luckily I have friends that I can give the ships to after I have taken the cards I want. But I would rather make em spend there own money

The Hound's Tooth comes with a single copy of Engine Upgrade and Crack Shot. I bought a 2nd recently when they were on sale for under 20.

I wanted to try out a 2x YV-666 and 2x Kihraxz squad.

Oh god, I realized you could call this a double KY ****