This is kind of the price of a card based system. Had they use 40K style army books, then I agree, definitely do the errata. With cards it's just not that easy to balance constantly, as pretty much every card would end up playing differently from what it actually says.

This is one of those topics that really highlights the differences between people that came to X Wing from wargames, and those that came to it from TCGs and board-games.

Can you expand on what you mean by this?

Aside from the maneuver dials/templates and dice rolling X-wing is almost a CCG. Most wargame (i.e. mainstream historical rulesets and similar) rule problems are fixed via changing the rules themselves as opposed to pushing new product to fix said rule problems.

The timing issues we have in this game are also very much a card game thing.

Considering rules changes in war games often come with having to purchase a new rulebook...

But also consider that often that rulebook contains all the rules and profiles for all the models in the game. I bought the Kings of War book for like, $20 and I now have access to every unit from every faction, and all the upgrades as well. And unlike in a TCG, I don't need to physically possess multiple copies of an upgrade if i wish to use it multiple times.

Similarly I also bought the SAGA rulebook, and now I have all the faction stats and upgrade and abilities for all the (core) SAGA factions.

Yes, wargames often release supplement books (like Uncharted Empires and The Raven's Shadow) but it's still much cheaper to stay up to date with a game that keeps it's rules in books, than it is to stay up to date with a game that keeps it's rules on cards.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

I was going to say wait till folks start selling it on eBay and buy it for a lot less than getting a model that you'll never use. Or trade cards with another player that likes to arc dodge and will never use ordinance. I have 4 sets of Autothruster cards, but not one StarViper to my name.

I was going to say that, but OP left.

Now you're talking sense. And that's crazy talk!

This is one of those topics that really highlights the differences between people that came to X Wing from wargames, and those that came to it from TCGs and board-games.

I love X Wing, but I love it despite it's construction/release model and rules, not because of them. If this game didn't have Star Wars ships, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

And it's things like Guidance Chips that highlight what I don't like about the game.

Yeah, I'm with you. The rules aren't the end-all-be-all of technical writing.

I wouldn't touch the game if the models weren't pre-painted well....

And I see this game rapidly becoming a victim of its own success. Too many releases too fast, too much change.

Add in a wave of kiddos coming in after TFA and I'm liking the idea of playing in public gatherings less and less. I'll play with my mates.

The E-Wing is out-dated by the T-70, as is the T-65 by and large.

I have to buy ships I don't want to play to get cards I want to use (auto-thruster; accuracy corrector, etc. when I have no interest in S&V ships); although I work around this by not playing in tournaments and proxy.

They are milking a cash cow in the short term, but the game itself doesn't seem to be getting any more fun at all. It's getting more confusing and more expensive and more cumbersome.

I visit here less and less too.

Lots of angry noise and not much in the way of support for new players and non-competitive play.

Considering rules changes in war games often come with having to purchase a new rulebook...

Maybe if you're playing 40k or Warmahordes. Two Hour Wargames doesn't sell you a new book unless there's a whole new edition of the rules or a major content expansion adding rules for all sorts of other things, and that's fairly common throughout the industry.

Old Avalon hill would sell add on rules in packs (original rules were a binder). If a section of rules got completely re-written they would be able to be taken out and the new rules slotted in. Old AD&D uses something similar for the monster manual too. This however is exceedingly hardcore and quite contrary to X-Wing.

If you're a casual player, just proxy it. No problem.

GET 'EM!

:lol:

ZOING!!!

:D

Is it so wrong to like to have stuff? I like to have the stuff. The real stuff.

Yet you're upset you have to buy said stuff...

The game designers completely screwed up ordinance from the start. The fact you have to use a target lock or focus to even activate the ordinance made it very ineffective compared to just a straight attack of say 3 red dice with modifiers.

The "Fixes" they have issued really haven't worked much. The proof of this is the lack of them in being used in play. Especially at tournament level play.

I do think Ordnance was an issue from the start and that recent cards have helped somewhat, even some of the latest ordnance now only require you to have a target lock or focus but not spend it and you still get the modifiers for it. Now if you could reroll, they'd be no point in Guidance chips, at least they are a little more worth it now and are free but you have to sacrifice other potential upgrades.

I do have an issue with something that does bug me...which is the vitriol someone spews regarding a ship when...it shouldn't really matter where it comes from, it's a ship that brings something different and new to the table regardless where it is from, I really don't get the 'purist' attitude people bring to the table. No joke, I once had an opponent refuse to play me because I had a TIE Defender on my squad. Given that Defenders are not a regular thing for me to play, and I mostly play Rebels the objection was not because they were OP or that I was great with them. No, he objected that it wasn't Star Wars.

I very rarely go off on one at someone, but my response was "Okay, sure, I'll remove this, why don't we go back to playing with Interceptors and A-Wings? Oh but that's probably not pure enough...maybe TIE Fighters VS X-Wings? No that is not pure at all, maybe sticks and stones would be appropriate so I can whack some sense into that head of yours!"....direct quote. I don't do subtle, I came to play a game I enjoy and was insulted when someone essentially told me "You're playing it wrong!"

That doesn't even make sense to me... Maybe because I grew up with them, but to me X-Wing and TIE Fighter are as an important part of Star Wars as the movies!

No, that was my sarcastic laced response to him.

My point is...if you just play X-Wings and TIE Fighters...the game would get boring, new stuff livens the game up and exposes people to different aspects. Even if you dislike the source material, the ship itself should matter most, nothing else.

The game designers completely screwed up ordinance from the start. The fact you have to use a target lock or focus to even activate the ordinance made it very ineffective compared to just a straight attack of say 3 red dice with modifiers.

The "Fixes" they have issued really haven't worked much. The proof of this is the lack of them in being used in play. Especially at tournament level play.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The ordinance of this game system is fine overall.

The game designers completely screwed up ordinance from the start. The fact you have to use a target lock or focus to even activate the ordinance made it very ineffective compared to just a straight attack of say 3 red dice with modifiers.

The "Fixes" they have issued really haven't worked much. The proof of this is the lack of them in being used in play. Especially at tournament level play.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The ordinance of this game system is fine overall.

Ordnance. Ordnance. NOT Ordinance! Those are laws.

The game designers completely screwed up ordinance from the start. The fact you have to use a target lock or focus to even activate the ordinance made it very ineffective compared to just a straight attack of say 3 red dice with modifiers.

The "Fixes" they have issued really haven't worked much. The proof of this is the lack of them in being used in play. Especially at tournament level play.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The ordinance of this game system is fine overall.

The irony is strong with this one...

i would like to point out that people on this board can be pretty harsh. this thread was not cool.

As one of the first posters to help scare away forum trolls, I have to say that the way some people have conducted themselves in this thread is abominable. When you can't distinguish a guy with a civil tongue and a different opinion from the next Emperor Palpatine, you've lived long enough to see yourselves become the villain.

As one of the first posters to help scare away forum trolls, I have to say that the way some people have conducted themselves in this thread is abominable. When you can't distinguish a guy with a civil tongue and a different opinion from the next Emperor Palpatine, you've lived long enough to see yourselves become the villain.

He wanted the game changed radically to fit his needs. He plays casual. He could print up, hell even draw the card in crayon and few would complain. But instead he wants the game rewritten to fit his agenda. That mindset makes him the villain.

As one of the first posters to help scare away forum trolls, I have to say that the way some people have conducted themselves in this thread is abominable. When you can't distinguish a guy with a civil tongue and a different opinion from the next Emperor Palpatine, you've lived long enough to see yourselves become the villain.

As one of the first posters to help scare away forum trolls, I have to say that the way some people have conducted themselves in this thread is abominable. When you can't distinguish a guy with a civil tongue and a different opinion from the next Emperor Palpatine, you've lived long enough to see yourselves become the villain.

He wanted the game changed radically to fit his needs. He plays casual. He could print up, hell even draw the card in crayon and few would complain. But instead he wants the game rewritten to fit his agenda. That mindset makes him the villain.

having a bad idea and posting it is no reason brow beat someone off the forums.

As one of the first posters to help scare away forum trolls, I have to say that the way some people have conducted themselves in this thread is abominable. When you can't distinguish a guy with a civil tongue and a different opinion from the next Emperor Palpatine, you've lived long enough to see yourselves become the villain.

lets see if i can get this to work...

*nope, lets try again!

As one of the first posters to help scare away forum trolls, I have to say that the way some people have conducted themselves in this thread is abominable. When you can't distinguish a guy with a civil tongue and a different opinion from the next Emperor Palpatine, you've lived long enough to see yourselves become the villain.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qG5QPuPvUoI/VdUeYuGcQbI/AAAAAAAAG7Y/BPtFrDi3iDo/s414-Ic42/BOO%252520TOPIC%2525201.png

lets see if i can get this to work...

NOPES...

I don't understand the problem. The ship itself looks like a good one to fly. Who cares if it's not one particular flavor of nostalgia bait? I'd never heard of a TIE Punisher before this game, and that thing is sweet. Same with the Decimator. It kinda feels like you're saying "they're making me pay 15 dollars for this one card to make ordnance useful". But that's not the case. It is one upgrade that helps make them useful, but there's already been a good fix in the form of Extra Munitions, and there'll also be Long Range Scanners. It's not like ordnance is unplayable unless you buy the TIE Prototype.