OP, don't go away mad.

OP, just go away.

Was there any need for this?

It seemed like a well thought out reasoned argument, he sounds like he has played the game for a while and has brought up a point that I believe has started to raise its head in recent releases, instead of reasoned discussion and debate he was confronted with this. I see his posts descend into frustration from countless negative replies and I think the reaction from some members of this site who have massive post counts who should know better, pretty **** shameful.

As I side note, we recently had a second edition of X wing( was it??) I think the better route would be to fix the ordanance problem at source rather then countless upgrade cards in various expansions, there may be something to take from GW model, new edition and the former one is obsolete, this would avoid the damage deck debacle we experienced over last two months.

I love this game but it's not perfect about time some people around here recognised the fact and let others air their issues.

Because whenever someone complains about something related to this game they must be dismissed even if they're correct because this forum has to be an echo chamber of positivity and smarmy Alex Davy smiles.

If you want to complain at least complain about something sensible. I have two issues with the TAP. One, the name is stupid. Vader flew the Tie Advanced Prototype in the original Star Wars. Nothing FFG can do about this, as they didn't name the **** thing. Two, there should have been two copies of Guidance Chip in this set, just like their should have been two copies of Comm Relay in the TIE/fo pack. FFG has been a bit stingy with required cards as of late (again, look at where the fix for the poor TIE Advance is). That is, imo, something worth complaining about.

It is a business Brah. These super cool goodies are not required to play for fun at home. Now for professional gamers; YIPES! This is why I do not care at all about turnies because you get this hurt feelings left out mentality. Kinda like being in high school.

Not my thing.

Buy the goodies if you can afford them, but fussing about how FFG does stuff is not going to get you the new toys.

They have been no stingier than they have ever been on cards in packs.

they gave you a free JPG of the card

You know what to do.

also you can get two copies in the punishing one expansion.

I like the way you think...although FFG may not!

Alright, I'm done. I don't know what the **** is wrong with you people, but I'm out of the forum. Thanks guys.

Don't let the door hit you on the w- oh, there it goes.

Losing faith in FFG, despite FFG doing exactly as they always have, and say they always intend to do. They've changed nothing on the subject.

They won't use the FFG document as a means to update previous releases. They will use subsequent releases to do that, and yes they absolutely intend that to make certain expansions more attractive then they otherwise would be.

they gave you a free JPG of the card

You know what to do.

also you can get two copies in the punishing one expansion.

I like the way you think...although FFG may not!

If you never play in tournaments, why buy a bazillion copies of the card? They know it, they just don't like to actively encourage it.

OP, don't go away mad.

OP, just go away.

Was there any need for this?

It seemed like a well thought out reasoned argument, he sounds like he has played the game for a while and has brought up a point that I believe has started to raise its head in recent releases, instead of reasoned discussion and debate he was confronted with this. I see his posts descend into frustration from countless negative replies and I think the reaction from some members of this site who have massive post counts who should know better, pretty **** shameful.

As I side note, we recently had a second edition of X wing( was it??) I think the better route would be to fix the ordanance problem at source rather then countless upgrade cards in various expansions, there may be something to take from GW model, new edition and the former one is obsolete, this would avoid the damage deck debacle we experienced over last two months.

I love this game but it's not perfect about time some people around here recognised the fact and let others air their issues.

Because whenever someone complains about something related to this game they must be dismissed even if they're correct because this forum has to be an echo chamber of positivity and smarmy Alex Davy smiles.

Because he's wrong, alright?

You know as well as I do that the "Sky is falling" posts get extremely tiring, and these days nothing is ever good enough for anybody.

"Oh no, this munitions fix makes me HAVE to gear my ship towards using weapons in a thoughtful way! Wow, I wish they'd just errata it entirely for my convenience!" Or worse "What an outstanding ship I have no excuse not to buy! And it comes with a card I want for my ships! Oh well, I guess I'll just complain about HAVING to buy a ship despite being a casual player!"

Ugh.

Just enjoy stuff, I say. Here- this song gets it across well enough, and the game I know it from? (first google result too) well I got a ton of issues with it but I still love it because I don't require perfection.

I mean, I love HWKs. What's that tell you?

With a worrying mind, so many things can go wrong.

YUP...

Is that oatmeal with your fried eggs, toast and bacon?

I like it.

I was going to say wait till folks start selling it on eBay and buy it for a lot less than getting a model that you'll never use. Or trade cards with another player that likes to arc dodge and will never use ordinance. I have 4 sets of Autothruster cards, but not one StarViper to my name.

I was going to say that, but OP left.

Because whenever someone complains about something related to this game they must be dismissed even if they're correct because this forum has to be an echo chamber of positivity and smarmy Alex Davy smiles.

We have this argument, or variations upon it, at least twice a month. It got old long before I joined the forum, frankly.

Two, there should have been two copies of Guidance Chip in this set, just like their should have been two copies of Comm Relay in the TIE/fo pack. FFG has been a bit stingy with required cards as of late (again, look at where the fix for the poor TIE Advance is). That is, imo, something worth complaining about.

FFG is still putting the same number of upgrade cards in each small ship expansion (5 for ships with 4 pilots, 2 for ships with 6 pilots). Nothing out of the ordinary.

Now, one thing that might be worth discussing is increasing MSRP a bit and including more copies of each non-unique upgrade in each expansion, but that seems like a separate thread. Edit: Which I just made.

I can really see both sides here, concerning cards and their distribution;

yeah, they could do card packs. yeah, they could pack more of the new cards into one set (looking at you, "juke" and "wired"), where I just got my 20-30th proton torp or so..

it shouldn't hurt the mini-sale (sorry, but who plays 10+ €/$ for a toy you don't want but a card you -really- want..?) we buy the mini, or we don't. we don't do it for the cards only. so, the sales shouldn't be hurt. and if in doubt: TRY. try with -some- cards and see if that results in dropped sales for the minis it comes with.

OTOH I really see the "fly casual" point. If you don't play in a die-hard-tournament, you could simply prox the cards and -everybody- would be okay with that. hey, most people would be okay with it at tournaments. and you also can get the card loaned from friends or if there are none playing the game you can get them from at least "sporty minded people with a card or two to spare" (which IMHO most of us are). there is little point in running against a brick wall.

something like a conclusion? yeah, well.. no. Just that it's really a -minor- problem IMHO. that said, a lot of "goodwill" could be made here with cardpacks. but is not needed, either. IMO the crowd is very satisfied with how FFG handle most things - and with good reason.

oh.. something else: manners. again, people: when somebody writes down his/her thoughts and does so in a grown-up and polite manner: there really is no point in getting rude about it (and some comments here ARE rude). it looks immature and -you- lose face over that, not the person you disagree with. nobody has to agree with anybody on anything, but at the very least let's be polite about the way we do so.

oh.. something else: manners. again, people: when somebody writes down his/her thoughts and does so in a grown-up and polite manner: there really is no point in getting rude about it (and some comments here ARE rude). it looks immature and -you- lose face over that, not the person you disagree with. nobody has to agree with anybody on anything, but at the very least let's be polite about the way we do so.

Quoted for truth. While the arguments about the upgrade system have gotten old, that's no excuse for being a jerk about it.

This is one of those topics that really highlights the differences between people that came to X Wing from wargames, and those that came to it from TCGs and board-games.

I love X Wing, but I love it despite it's construction/release model and rules, not because of them. If this game didn't have Star Wars ships, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

And it's things like Guidance Chips that highlight what I don't like about the game.

As someone who had to buy a StarViper to get copies of Autothrusters despite thinking Shadows of the Empire is a terrible book, I'm not particularly sympathetic to the OP's complaints.

This is one of those topics that really highlights the differences between people that came to X Wing from wargames, and those that came to it from TCGs and board-games.

I love X Wing, but I love it despite it's construction/release model and rules, not because of them. If this game didn't have Star Wars ships, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

And it's things like Guidance Chips that highlight what I don't like about the game.

As someone who had to buy a StarViper to get copies of Autothrusters despite thinking Shadows of the Empire is a terrible book, I'm not particularly sympathetic to the OP's complaints.

As someone who thinks StarVipers are pretty, I weap that they're not quite good enough.

Wait. I mean: I think your point is also valid. I just wanna fly StarVipers like they're OP.

This is one of those topics that really highlights the differences between people that came to X Wing from wargames, and those that came to it from TCGs and board-games.

Can you expand on what you mean by this?

The whole upgrade slot system allows for customization and modernization of all ships. It is made so that for most upgrades they can be used with ships from different expansion packs or even different factions.

The one thing that can be found on the business model is that in each expansion packs the models can use any of the upgrade cards that come with the pack. The Star Viper can equip autothrusters and YT-2400 can equip proton rockets. Now again these might not be the best pairings but they are functional as intended.

You've lost faith already? Don't worry it can only get worse from here on out

Dumb.

As someone who had to buy a StarViper to get copies of Autothrusters despite thinking Shadows of the Empire is a terrible book, I'm not particularly sympathetic to the OP's complaints.

As someone who thinks StarVipers are pretty, I weap that they're not quite good enough.

Wait. I mean: I think your point is also valid. I just wanna fly StarVipers like they're OP.

This is one of those topics that really highlights the differences between people that came to X Wing from wargames, and those that came to it from TCGs and board-games.

Can you expand on what you mean by this?

Aside from the maneuver dials/templates and dice rolling X-wing is almost a CCG. Most wargame (i.e. mainstream historical rulesets and similar) rule problems are fixed via changing the rules themselves as opposed to pushing new product to fix said rule problems.

The timing issues we have in this game are also very much a card game thing.

Ah, understood. Thanks.

This is one of those topics that really highlights the differences between people that came to X Wing from wargames, and those that came to it from TCGs and board-games.

Can you expand on what you mean by this?

Aside from the maneuver dials/templates and dice rolling X-wing is almost a CCG. Most wargame (i.e. mainstream historical rulesets and similar) rule problems are fixed via changing the rules themselves as opposed to pushing new product to fix said rule problems.

The timing issues we have in this game are also very much a card game thing.

Considering rules changes in war games often come with having to purchase a new rulebook...

Maybe if you're playing 40k or Warmahordes. Two Hour Wargames doesn't sell you a new book unless there's a whole new edition of the rules or a major content expansion adding rules for all sorts of other things, and that's fairly common throughout the industry.