I will never understand why people buy so many copies of a ship. 4 bombers? Really?

Some people, such as myself, have a problem.

four bombers is four Homing missiles + seismic charges + munitions

it is no problem, only a solution (to whatever your opponent has)

The big limit on Adv Homing Missiles is still the Range 2 only (which probably makes it best on Rhymer). It also was fairly accurate before since you got the target lock reroll. Still, probable 2 going up to probable hits is definitely an improvement that few ships can successfully avoid. Definitely worth testing. I'm not sure if Maarek can line it up reliably, but it seems worth a shot. Shame the Defender title doesn't work with any secondary weapon. It would be pretty nice there.

The big limit on Adv Homing Missiles is still the Range 2 only (which probably makes it best on Rhymer). It also was fairly accurate before since you got the target lock reroll. Still, probable 2 going up to probable hits is definitely an improvement that few ships can successfully avoid. Definitely worth testing. I'm not sure if Maarek can line it up reliably, but it seems worth a shot. Shame the Defender title doesn't work with any secondary weapon. It would be pretty nice there.

Rhymer definitely is a good choice here, but it will work on other pilots also. While the Range 2 limitation is an issue, the prevalence of Tactician suggests that it can still be a viable card. Deadeye will help as it opens up your choice of targets, plus you will have the focus to modify dice. Combined with Guidance Chips, you stand a good chance to hit and push a crit through.

I don't hate it by any means, I'm just not sure how reliably you could tag a high PS pilot who is that incentivized to NOT be at Range 2.

I don't hate it by any means, I'm just not sure how reliably you could tag a high PS pilot who is that incentivized to NOT be at Range 2.

better bring a lot of range 2s, and a lot of reasons not to be at range 1

I will never understand why people buy so many copies of a ship. 4 bombers? Really?

I once played a lad at a tournament who fielded five Gamma Squadron Pilots, each with Seismic Charges.

It was a fun game.

I will never understand why people buy so many copies of a ship. 4 bombers? Really?

Because Epic is the one true Star Wars miniature game

I will never understand why people buy so many copies of a ship. 4 bombers? Really?

To be fair, four bombers with ordnance fit very easily in a squadron (and still does, even with extra munitons) and there were even some competitive builds where that was the case. (The prox mine tango +doom shuttle). Also, at the time it came out, it wasn't like there were a ton of other ships to pick from. I certainly bought more of the old ships than I have recently, partially for that reason, partially because I now expect to get another copy after they fix a ship

Epic presents the possibility to play large numbers of ships. My group has used 4 Aggressors, 12 Tie Fighters, 3 K-Wings, 4 Punishers and 8 A-Wings in battles so far. It is a lot of fun.

*Edit* I just realized I used four bombers in a standard 100 pt game once. It doesn't even take Epic battles. Just a willingness to try different squads. Yes, these were casual games.

PS the majority of the complainers keep referencing only the TAP comes with the cards, yet they can't do the 2 minutes of research to find that the Punishing One comes with two.

People actually do realize this, and several have pointed it out. We also bothered to do the math, and realized it's exactly the same cost. People have also been pointing out repeatedly that one of the major problems with the sales model is that it forces people cross-faction, so suggesting that the problem is fixed because you can get the card from another ship outside the main faction that will use them is so tone deaf it makes me think you haven't actually considered the issue at all.

Which, of course, you haven't. You're fine with it, you see no problem, and everyone else is just entitled whiners. What need could there possibly be for actually considering the concerns?

I acknowledge the plight of the single faction collector. But I don't have a solution for it. And, since I collect all three, I'm really on the other side of the coin. I'm not sure I need at least three sources for every card. I keep coming back to upgrade packs as the only way to mitigate this problem, but I'm not so sure it's something FFG has incentive to do.

PS the majority of the complainers keep referencing only the TAP comes with the cards, yet they can't do the 2 minutes of research to find that the Punishing One comes with two.

People actually do realize this, and several have pointed it out. We also bothered to do the math, and realized it's exactly the same cost. People have also been pointing out repeatedly that one of the major problems with the sales model is that it forces people cross-faction, so suggesting that the problem is fixed because you can get the card from another ship outside the main faction that will use them is so tone deaf it makes me think you haven't actually considered the issue at all.

Which, of course, you haven't. You're fine with it, you see no problem, and everyone else is just entitled whiners. What need could there possibly be for actually considering the concerns?

Quite honestly, If you are a cross faction player like i am, you can buy 2 TAP's and a Punishing one.

If you are an imperial player, you just buy 4 TAP's if you need the upgrades.

And if you don't want to do that either i'm sorry you will just have 2 Guidance Chimps, there is no solution for you, but that's not FFG's fault nor anyone else's. You want to play the game, then buy their stuff!

(On a sidenote: There is always E-Bay or some online stores where you can buy single cards for a pretty steep price too)

And if you don't want to do that either i'm sorry you will just have 2 Guidance Chimps, there is no solution for you, but that's not FFG's fault nor anyone else's. You want to play the game, then buy their stuff!

Actually, it is precisely FFG's fault. They have created a sales model based on bundling, which is becoming more and more untenable as time goes on. It's also one that consumers are becoming less and less willing to accept - ask Comcast how bundling is working out for them these days.

I acknowledge the plight of the single faction collector. But I don't have a solution for it. And, since I collect all three, I'm really on the other side of the coin. I'm not sure I need at least three sources for every card. I keep coming back to upgrade packs as the only way to mitigate this problem, but I'm not so sure it's something FFG has incentive to do.

the only problem with guido champs is if you play rebel only. and im sure theyll get stuck in something some day so you can stop proxying.

And if you don't want to do that either i'm sorry you will just have 2 Guidance Chimps, there is no solution for you, but that's not FFG's fault nor anyone else's. You want to play the game, then buy their stuff!

Actually, it is precisely FFG's fault. They have created a sales model based on bundling, which is becoming more and more untenable as time goes on. It's also one that consumers are becoming less and less willing to accept - ask Comcast how bundling is working out for them these days.

I would have nothing against Card booster packs sold separately from the ships. But this will not happen as far as i can see.

I was under the firm impression that X-Wing sales were going pretty well, and they have now been the second biggest miniature game behind 40k for at least a year. So they probably have no reason to change their sales model!

And if you don't want to do that either i'm sorry you will just have 2 Guidance Chimps, there is no solution for you, but that's not FFG's fault nor anyone else's. You want to play the game, then buy their stuff!

Actually, it is precisely FFG's fault. They have created a sales model based on bundling, which is becoming more and more untenable as time goes on. It's also one that consumers are becoming less and less willing to accept - ask Comcast how bundling is working out for them these days.

I was under the impression that the real problem with Comcast is that their customer service department is run by Satan.

I would have nothing against Card booster packs sold separately from the ships. But this will not happen as far as i can see.

I was under the firm impression that X-Wing sales were going pretty well, and they have now been the second biggest miniature game behind 40k for at least a year. So they probably have no reason to change their sales model!

But, but, but I can still hope...

I would love to see Card Booster Packs sold separately. whoo hoo

I would love to see Card Booster Packs sold separately.

Most of us would... Which is perhaps the strongest argument why it won't happen any time soon. Any time a company does something the customers really, really love... There's a decent chance they aren't charging enough for it.

We would all love to be able to buy a cardpack for upgrade cards rather than buying a ship. But unless there's some way for the pack to make up for the lost revenue then it seems like a bad business decision.

I mean the only reason I could see anyone buying a cardpack is because doing so is a cheaper way of getting the cards then buying the ships that the cards come with.

I would have nothing against Card booster packs sold separately from the ships. But this will not happen as far as i can see.

I was under the firm impression that X-Wing sales were going pretty well, and they have now been the second biggest miniature game behind 40k for at least a year. So they probably have no reason to change their sales model!

Sadly, I agree - we certainly won't see card packs.

And sales are going great, and they're making a ton of money on it. But that can't hold forever. This sort of pain only increases over time, and will affect more and more players. The reprinted ships can also only work so many times - as mentioned above, a big part of what burned me out was the realization of just how many ships I pay for that I never use, and Imperial Veterans would just be more of the same.

Will it kill the game? I honestly have no idea. I have a very high threshold for acceptable cost, and I'm pretty amazed that anyone is still OK with it once I hit my limit. But nothing about this model improves over time - useless ships, spread of ships you have to purchase to be competitive, and the way the sales model paints them into a corner on a major game revision all point to a deteriorating state for the game. I'm thinking relatively long term here, but while X-wing may currently be overtopping other minis games, I expect the others on top of the list will outlast it.

I would have nothing against Card booster packs sold separately from the ships. But this will not happen as far as i can see.

I was under the firm impression that X-Wing sales were going pretty well, and they have now been the second biggest miniature game behind 40k for at least a year. So they probably have no reason to change their sales model!

But, but, but I can still hope...

I would love to see Card Booster Packs sold separately. whoo hoo

I'd only want booster packs if the cards in the packs were listed. I dont want to buy 40 packs, trying to get Emperor Palpatine, to only end up with 40 proton torpedos and 32 advanced sensors. Would rather just spend the money and get the badass looking Raider.

I was under the impression that the real problem with Comcast is that their customer service department is run by Satan.

Comcast was the prime example mostly because they're actively moving against people who cut the cord and go to alternative sources, but bundling has been a growing issue for the cable companies for a long time. The desire for a'la carte pricing is driving a great deal of the move to online viewing sources.

I guess it depends on how much one views themselves as a collector vs gamer. How much I'm going to play a ship doesn't fall to much into my decision making for how many ships I want.

I mean the only reason I could see anyone buying a cardpack is because doing so is a cheaper way of getting the cards then buying the ships that the cards come with.

Only in the short term.

In the long run, as mentioned above, the current model simply isn't sustainable. New customers will be forced to buy an absolutely dizzying array of meaningless combinations of ships to get the upgrades they want, old diehards will be buried under their Nth unnecessary ship purchase, and both will fade for other, more affordable games. Bundling always looks good on the immediate bottom line, but builds to problems in the long run.

Of course, this only matters if FFG actually cares about the long run. Given the undoubted expense of maintaining the Star Wars licence, it's entirely possible that their plan is just to run it into the ground and make as much on it as they can, and have no plans for their Star Wars products to have a life span beyond 7-8 years. Or, possibly, that they didn't at the beginning but have now painted themselves into a corner. That's pure speculation, but wouldn't surprise me.

I guess it depends on how much one views themselves as a collector vs gamer. How much I'm going to play a ship doesn't fall to much into my decision making for how many ships I want.

And it's not the only factor for me, either. But I see very little value in my fourth TIE Defender, or 13th TIE Fighter, even as a collector. I see zero collector value in the second or fourth copies of ugly monstrosities like the Punisher or Advanced Prototype. Even the ships I do see value in as a collector, like the Saber/Royal Guard Interceptors - have a certain negative value to them because they put the 4 Interceptors I already had in the case forever.

That will all be personal, of course, but I suspect the portion of the player base which will buy 4 Advanced Prototypes or Punishers purely for collector's reasons is pretty slim.

In the long run, as mentioned above, the current model simply isn't sustainable.

I agree, I think at some point card packs will become more profitable than new ships packs, especially when the new ship is nothing more than a repaint of an existing one.

There is an absolute limit of how many ships FFG can make that will really sell well. I think the K-Wing and Tie Punishers are at that point now... I have both and like them, but by and large they are pushing the outer edge of what people consider Star Wars.

TFA has little more to offer in the way of new ships, neither does Rebels. So at some point and I think that point may come sooner than latter, that expansion packs will stop selling quite so well and at that point the economics of card packs will start to look better and better.