Figured I'd split this out into a separate comment on the difference in wargame styles.

Releasing new models to help old ones isn't unique to X-wing. Privateer does it all the time with Warmahordes - a new model comes out that is an attachment to a unit, or synergizes well with that unit. They did this from the very beginning - the first expansion added the Monolith Bearer, which took Holy Zealots from useless to one of the most OP unit in the game. So this idea is in no way original or unique to X-wing.

The big difference is that you can buy those fixes as you want, and only the ones you want which directly relate to you. I don't have to buy three units of Cygnar Long Gunners to fix my Zealots. And like it or not, whether you think it's fair or not, most people put the value on the model rather than the cards. So if I don't want the Inquisitor's TIE, buying the cards for my faction feels like a waste.

One thing which is pretty unique to FFG's games is the inability to buy just one faction. As above, this wasn't an issue early on - the range was small enough that playing both sides was a no-brainer. But now we've got a third faction, and coming up on what, 40 ships? Trying to be a completionist and play everything is getting expensive. Lots of people just want to play one faction. Lots may have gotten everything early, but are trying to limit new purchases. The bundling system forces you to keep up with the entire range, which is both expensive and painful.

to do what we were planning to do.

Playing a game of X-wing; after all, it is the setting and the models we are playing this game for.

This game is best played at home with friends... and some nice house rules.

As a casual gamer, I'd hate to be the guy trying to explain to my opponents that there are unwritten rules, such as: "since I haven't equipped any modifications to this B-wing, I get to add a critical to each attack with my torpedoes. It says so on the Internet."

So what do you do about the 16+ pages of FAQ we've already got, much of which is counterintuitive or outright contradicts the actual rules/cards, and it only says so on the internet?

As a casual gamer, I'd hate to be the guy trying to explain to my opponents that there are unwritten rules, such as: "since I haven't equipped any modifications to this B-wing, I get to add a critical to each attack with my torpedoes. It says so on the Internet."

Having the card gives a stronger impression of "no, really, I'm not just making this up". I think the card as a 0 cost mod is a good way to handle it, and it will save a lot of arguments that errata could start. Not all players get online and look up the latest FAQ and errata for gaming, but everyone at the table has easy access to professionally produced, and therefore obviously authorized, rules in the form of books, sheets and cards when setting up a game.

It´s why I went to another squad builder: http://x-wing.fabpsb.net/extensions2.php?lng=en

And printed the possible upgrades.

I am not able to duplicate nice versions, so a reference sheet is what I have to go for know.

I would prefer copies of the cards, but this had a swifter availability

OP you get 2 if you buy dengar, who was in the movies you watched as a kid. also dengar is probably gonna be cool and i want to make him fight han solo.

han k turns, dengar sloops- they go in for range one shots! but misjudge distance!or did they.... _{they bump, and then kiss.......}

I wish they could get the pdf to work on a phone. Haven't been able to download it in months, and I have friends that have had similar difficulties.

I wish they could get the pdf to work on a phone. Haven't been able to download it in months, and I have friends that have had similar difficulties.

Really? I have the latest faq on my phone

I wish they could get the pdf to work on a phone. Haven't been able to download it in months, and I have friends that have had similar difficulties.

It's a neat fix, but by no means do you HAVE to buy this new goofy looking TIE if that's your opinion. you may run ordnance however you wish, which even means not throwing any money into ships you don't have to buy. Simply be happy with what you already have. Or if your looking for an ordnance fix, try the TIE punisher/K-wing or Imperial Veterans.

I am a casual player

There's your solution. You only need to buy a ton of TIE/v1s if you're a tournament player where you're required to have x copies of what's essentially a reference card. If you're not, you only need one to prove you haven't changed the wording. Print the others. I personally don't even bother getting upgrade cards out: if it doesn't need tokens on it no point in digging it out.

I mean, we would still buy the ships, right?

No we wouldn't. If I didn't need to buy a Starviiper for the sake of Autothruster I wouldn't of ever bought one. I know back in the day a number of people bought 4 Shuttles for the sake of AdvSen.

So doing something that let you get by with less ships would in fact eat into FFG's bottom line.

I don't think there's any doubt about this. FFG abandoned the randomized model, and replaced it wholesale with a bundling model. They're the cable company of gaming, which is a pretty damning statement IMHO.

Consumers have every right to expect better treatment from the companies they buy from. FFG's bundling model is, in many ways, very unfriendly to consumers. A lot of people around here either don't believe that because they love FFG, don't think it matters because the overall cost is lower than some other games (although that's ending), or because the model can be circumvented (as long as you limit how you play). But that doesn't change the inherent unfriendliness of bundling.

The problem many people are starting to have is that a model which was minimally unfriendly early has gotten worse and worse. I was OK buying a third A-wing for Push the Limit, I could see myself using those. I rolled my eyes when they only put Advanced Sensors in the Lambda. Imperial Aces didn't bother me personally because I loved the uniquely distinctive paint jobs for the matching pilots, but it catapulted me way past anything I'd ever reasonably use on the table at once. And it just kept getting worse from there - people who didn't care for Scum still needed Autothrusters, then ugly ships for ordnance, now uglier ships for YET ANOTHER ordnance fix. It just keeps getting worse

And as it gets worse and worse, "FFG is doing it to make more money" becomes a less and less acceptable answer for many consumers.

I've been running into this when I try to get new players into the game - players that aren't coming from games like 40K find the number of models you need to buy for normal builds pretty foreboding. Putting together a tournament-ready Soontir Fel, for example, requires a TIE Interceptor expansion (for Soontir), Imperial Aces Expansion (for Royal Guard TIE and Push the Limit), Slave I expansion (for Stealth Device), and StarViper expansion (for Autothrusters). That's not even a particularly bad example, 3/4 of the expansions are same-faction at least and can be run at the same time. If they want to run a tournament-ready Vader, you need something like a TIE Advanced expansion (for Vader), either a YV-666 or YT-1300 (for Engine Upgrade), and a Raider (for TIE Advanced/x1 and Advanced Targeting Computer). Vader is pretty costly!

I mean, I go to Worlds every year, have lots of models, etc., I'm not averse to spending money on this game, but I'm never going to run, e.g., a Crack Shot swarm because the purchases required are absurd.

That's why you don't hit them with what they need to be competitive at once. A core + $60 in other ships gets you off to a decent start for one faction.

That's why you don't hit them with what they need to be competitive at once. A core + $60 in other ships gets you off to a decent start for one faction.

Most people are going to want to know what the game actually costs, though, if they're interested in price at all.

I wish they could get the pdf to work on a phone. Haven't been able to download it in months, and I have friends that have had similar difficulties.

Questions- Is it a problem downloading the file, or opening it? If you're using Chrome as your mobile browser and it's a download issue, try switching to firefox- That fixed the problem for me.

It just downloads at 0 percent indefinitely.

That's why you don't hit them with what they need to be competitive at once. A core + $60 in other ships gets you off to a decent start for one faction.

This has a decidedly used car salesman feel to it.

Instead of a 2nd copy of Long Range Scanners, I'd prefer if Imperial Veterans came with Experimental Interface.

Then they can include another copy of LRS in Rebel Veterans instead of saddling the Imperial pack with Rebel upgrades.

The ones that want to spam LRS lists are probably using Z-95s.

I see the point of running 4 bombers with one turn of launching concussion missiles with focus, after turn two that will be a pretty frustrating game to play if you didn't already annihilate the enemy since you may never get another target lock. You could run Deadeye on Gamma Vets, but at that point you could have just taken Guidance Chips in the first place.

That's another thing, the game is considerably less expensive if you don't run squadrons composed of identical ships, because you won't need 5 copies of every upgrade.

OP, don't go away mad.

OP, just go away.

**** you can be a complete donkeys rear end!!!

Just grow up mate

The rules for secondary weapons have never been the issue. It has been the design of the actual cards. So, it makes sense to use cards to fix them.

That's a load.. Most of the torpedo and missile cards are fine its the action economy that is the problem.

This has been debated over and over, and the general consensus is that you should be able to use the re-roll effect of the spent T/L. This would solve most of the problems with ordinance and is something that could be done via the FAQ

It's not a new rule its a fix to something that is broken, like FAQing the phantom cloak.

The new modifications fix the action economy. Some missiles already don't require you to spend the target lock.

Munitions seem pretty boss with the new fixes and pilots. At least on Imperial side. Rebels and Scum have turrets to fall back on, they've never really cared much.

As a casual gamer, I'd hate to be the guy trying to explain to my opponents that there are unwritten rules, such as: "since I haven't equipped any modifications to this B-wing, I get to add a critical to each attack with my torpedoes. It says so on the Internet."

So what do you do about the 16+ pages of FAQ we've already got, much of which is counterintuitive or outright contradicts the actual rules/cards, and it only says so on the internet?

There's really only a page and a half of errata and even of that, only about 3-4 things that actually change the intent of the card. Everything else is either explanations of how to resolve complex interactions or subtle changes to ensure the card resolves correctly in more complex scenarios.

The primary issue with errata is just that there's no real way to know in play which cards have been changed outside of memorizing the list or cross-referencing each card against the list. The agency is on the players to know the changes, which is ok as long as long as its a relatively small set of affected components but gets unwieldy the more its used. That's why there's generally a sense of developers using it as a last resort as opposed to the extensive change log players are accustomed to seeing in digital games. The more players have to consult errata, the less effective cards are as a means of compartmentalizing model rules.

There's really only a page and a half of errata and even of that, only about 3-4 things that actually change the intent of the card. Everything else is either explanations of how to resolve complex interactions or subtle changes to ensure the card resolves correctly in more complex scenarios.

FFG likes to put some things under "errata" and some under "rulings", but don't think that makes the second any less impactful than the first. Many of the "rulings" change the game far more than the actual errata does. It's gotten a little better since the new rulebook codified some of the worst, but almost all the changes in the new rulebook began their life as "rulings".

You also can't just write off those complex interactions or subtle changes. The idea that there is some lack of printed errata in X-wing as it stands today, and an additional rule or two would somehow ruin the clean purity of always knowing exactly what the cards do, is simply false.

Myself I have trouble believing 2.0 could have any meaningful impact without making some/many/most of the cards obsolete.

The game is, IMO, heading for an inevitable 2.0

The nature of the beast is that it is becoming extremely complex and inaccessible for new players, especially ones coming from a more casual background. The way FFG patches cards over one another means to run ships at full efficiency, you need a lot of other cards. Modifications, titles, crew, talents, ordnance, cannons, turrets, etc. And these are often found in ship packets that not only do you not want to buy, but they might be for completely different factions!

This is not a sustainable business model. As time goes on, not only will FFG run out of 'good' ships to release, but the barrier to entry (the complexity of the rules, and the cost to buy all the rules) will become steeper.

If they don't reboot the game, either they will relinquish the licence, or the game will fail and they'll have the licence taken off them.

A 2.0 that straight-up invalidates ALL existing cards, and replaces them with a clean-slate version where upgrades are a nice-to-have not a need-to-have and all ships are balanced and efficient WITHOUT the need for extra fixes, is the only way the game can continue to grow.

Isn't the 2nd edition of GoT incompatible with 1st edition?

We see the cards more as additional or advanced rules, made available with each expansion.

There's only one issue with that. I mean I agree for the most part that when playing casual you can do this... But there are times the cards are also counters.

Such as torpedoes/missiles/bombs/ect... These aren't just rules but also a way to track how many you have. So while you don't need to have the card persay, you should have something that allows people to know how many of what secondary someone has.

The difference being that if we realise that the cards are just counters, then we can replace them with anything. Dice, glass beads, an old fashioned pen-and-paper, etc.

But that's not how FFG treats them.

Isn't the 2nd edition of GoT incompatible with 1st edition?

No idea.

In my mind, a 2nd edition X Wing would use the same miniatures, but replace/update the cards with faction specific booklets for rules and upgrades or new card packs.