Im still not convinced, probably wont be until I see a few in the top 10 of worlds.

I'm not sure if ordnance heavy lists will ever make top 10 at Worlds. The people that go that route are trying desperately to reduce any variance in the dice. I'm not sure if ordnance will ever get that set. Is that the key indicator if something is competitive or not? If so, then that narrows down the game to only a few types of lists ever. That's a horrible way to play the game in my opinion. I don't live anywhere near Worlds and have no budget or time for the adventure. So, to say something is only good if it makes it into Top 10 at Worlds is rather ridiculous to me.

I doubt it either and thats just one more reason why I'm a fan of how FFG is approaching ordnance. It's not meant to be like TLTs. Its much higher damage potential per shot and thus needs to have greater variance.

I mean we're talking about ships like 23 pt scimitars here that punch well beyond their weight class with EM, HM, LRS. These things can vape pretty much any arc dodger short of fel and shred low AGI ships alike including fat ones like deci's. Then consider the same loadout on bren except with GC + crackshot at 32 pts.

The downside to this is its all conditional. Get an ace inside your 2 and LRS never activates again. Chimps are free but quit working when you run dry. Tracers are best on the initial pass etc etc. Fine by me. FFG has done a great job at diversifying your options for each ship and anyone who discounts ordnance now runs the risk of getting spoiled by it.

Im still not convinced, probably wont be until I see a few in the top 10 of worlds.

I'm not sure if ordnance heavy lists will ever make top 10 at Worlds. The people that go that route are trying desperately to reduce any variance in the dice. I'm not sure if ordnance will ever get that set. Is that the key indicator if something is competitive or not? If so, then that narrows down the game to only a few types of lists ever. That's a horrible way to play the game in my opinion. I don't live anywhere near Worlds and have no budget or time for the adventure. So, to say something is only good if it makes it into Top 10 at Worlds is rather ridiculous to me.

I doubt it either and thats just one more reason why I'm a fan of how FFG is approaching ordnance. It's not meant to be like TLTs. Its much higher damage potential per shot and thus needs to have greater variance.

I mean we're talking about ships like 23 pt scimitars here that punch well beyond their weight class with EM, HM, LRS. These things can vape pretty much any arc dodger short of fel and shred low AGI ships alike including fat ones like deci's. Then consider the same loadout on bren except with GC + crackshot at 32 pts.

The downside to this is its all conditional. Get an ace inside your 2 and LRS never activates again. Chimps are free but quit working when you run dry. Tracers are best on the initial pass etc etc. Fine by me. FFG has done a great job at diversifying your options for each ship and anyone who discounts ordnance now runs the risk of getting spoiled by it.

If you're looking to reduce variance, a 4-dice, re-rollable shot with Focus that ignores an Evade token is about as close to low variance offense as one can get. Crack Shot would make it even lower variance, and you can do that, too, with Gamma Squadron Vets. It works for a limited number of turns, but it can get it's job done with one shot.

There already are some alpha strike lists.

Firstly, Super Corran and Super Phantom and Super RAC and "lol 5 dice HLC Jan Ors and Super Dash" are all alpha strikers. They have ridiculous offense except there is no setup involved (ie target locking a turn in advance) and none of those combos require discarding anything. We've had this sort of stuff since the Phantom broke the game, it's just that no one is really seeing these ships as "Alpha Strikers" since they can do it every turn and it isn't based on ordnance or other disposable upgrades.

But as for alpha strikes based on ordnance and generic pilots and disposable upgrades? Well we have the dual IG Glitterstim+Crackshot list, and we have 3x Black Squadron, 3x Omega Squadron, 6x Crackshot or other variations of it. We also have the Quad Tempest, Quad Prockets/Clusters.

I haven't played the dual IG list I mentioned, but the 6x Crackshot list I've been playing non-stop. And it's great.

Those 60-ish point fat turret ships are the opposite of alpha strikers. They might have a very high quality shot, but it's not that much for the points you pay. Their success comes from buying themselves time with maneuver to do a lot of damage. The 6 Crackshot list you love, as well as the Glitter-Crack IG list are definitely alpha striking lists, so the idea of expendables has been shown to be sound. Ordnance with all the new mods just opens up the number of ships that can participate in an alpha strike.

If you're looking to reduce variance, a 4-dice, re-rollable shot with Focus that ignores an Evade token is about as close to low variance offense as one can get. Crack Shot would make it even lower variance, and you can do that, too, with Gamma Squadron Vets. It works for a limited number of turns, but it can get it's job done with one shot.

No, the worst is Han Solo with Luke crew and C-3PO. Or....Dash that can fire HLC every round with Kyle Katarn.

Missiles can just have that ultra crappy round where you roll all blanks and then use TL to roll all blanks again. The hyper competitive types can't live like that, no matter how small the chance.

I don't know, I think we could definitely see ordnance at Worlds next year, even all the way up to the top ten. Think about it this way: Every list at that level has been thought about and tested, and every ship and upgrade serves a specific purpose. If my two homing missile Z95s, or crackshot gamma squad vets can force an enemy ship out of the initial engagement (like stressbot, Palob, or other threat ships) then I am forcing my opponent to be reactive instead of proactive. When people talk about ordnance usually the focus is on the active contribution in terms of damage, but the passive contribution in the form of no-go zones and high damage threats has a serious impact on those top-level games.

For me, this is why Long Range scanners are ace. Two bombers with LRS can target lock an enemy ship on round one, and paired with am aggressive opening maneuver, this can really throw off your opponent. They might try to do a hard turn next turn to kite away from your bombers, or they may take a more conservative flight path away from the initial engagement. Either way, this can force one ship out of the initial engagement, while the rest of your squad sets up for your ideal end-game situation.

I don't know about you guys, but my prediction for ordnance in the meta will be as a role filled. Aces will always be needed for the end game, support is also needed, via control (ion/stress), denying actions (blocking/stripping tokens), or adding actions. The final ingredient are the grunts. They throw a ton of red dice, and then hopefully kill something of higher value before they die. This is where ordnance, crack shot, HLCs, and just basic 3atk primaries kick in, it just depends if the ships you choose for these roles are cost effective or not, and how you get them to work together in your squad.

What I see as a hindrance is the mindset of the competitive player. There hasn't been a single fix that makes ordnance broken. There hasn't been one thing that can turn someone from a novice to a master with ordnance. With each little fix, will any of these uber competitive players actually try it? If so, how many times? To many people, it's still "broken and sux0rs". Until some highly competitive players try it and win with it, you won't see people bother to take it. They are like lemmings and will only follow the herd.

I'm with Gersun. I think generally it will be a role filler. The basic Bomber or Z-95 + Missile is cheap, and has been made more reliable (for free). As new meta threats emerge, chances are that 20-30 points can be tasked in a squad to defeating that threat in the form of a missile or torpedo carrier.

I for one welcome our new Ordnance overlords.