So I have found with wave 2 that the basic demo game just does not give a player that epic feel that we now have.

So here is the topic, what Rebel and Imperial lists do you use and what things do you omit?

For instance, do you have a list with a Commander but no Objectives? Do you toss them straight in at 400 points or do you start lower? What ships do you use and why?

Let the discussion begin!

I think I would add the following to the core set layout:

1. an AFMk2 and a Glad

2. no upgrades/commanders

3. for squads, add a healthy mix that feature at least 1 or 2 of each of the wave 2 squads?

Overall, I see it as an introduction to the basic components and mechanics. I'd play it on a 3x3 mat, most likely.

I like to use ships only and no objectives. I create the lists in advance with a mix of ships and just a few titles and upgrades. 400 points or close to it.

I agree on not using Objectives, for sure.

Here is my most recent set of lists. I took out the upgrades last time just so I could show them the basics.

+++ Demo lists (585pts) +++

++ Imperial Navy (Standard) (295pts) ++

Kitted out Imp deuce - Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (164pts) [Electronic Countermeasures (7pts), Gunnery Team (7pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts), •Admiral Motti (24pts)]

Raider I-Class Corvette (48pts) [Ordnance Experts (4pts)]

+ Squadrons (83pts) +

Firespray-31 (18pts)

JumpMaster 5000 (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Bomber Squadron (9pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

•Major Rhymer (16pts)

++ Rebel Fleet (Standard) (290pts) ++

TRC90 - CR90 Corvette A (51pts) [Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7pts)]

Home One - MC80 Command Cruiser (168pts) [boosted Comms (4pts), Electronic Countermeasures (7pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts), •Admiral Ackbar (38pts), •Home One (7pts)]

+ Squadrons (71pts) +

A-Wing Squadron (11pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

X-Wing Squadron (13pts)

•Jan Ors (19pts)

I really disagree with adding upgrades to a demo with a new player. Actually, that's not true. If we're talking 'experienced' gamers, then yes, a few upgrades would work. Kind of a "Normal" difficulty. Strip them out for a 'tutorial'?

1st game:

6 turns

3x3 size: 1 or 2 ships. Only admiral and maybe 1 extra upgrade.

Any ships, but recommended medium and small only

150-200 points.

No squadrons

No objectives, alternate initiative (or even... don't. Just build lists that don't mind being first or second. Or let them play in their respective roles).

No rocks (or only explain rocks after they are hit)

No crits!

Teaches: basic attack, defense tokens, movement, commands, concept of upgrades, turn order/activation order.

2nd game:

3x3

2-3 squadrons

200 pts

Upgrades

Rocks

3rd game and on:

full size

300-400 points

objectives

- requires learning: all squadron abilities, how damage is dealt + crits, objectives, first/second player.

Examples:

155pts

AF2mkB - Garm, Gunnery Team

CR90A - TRC

155pts

Vic1 - Screed

Glad1

2nd game, add some squadrons. up to around 200?

45pts

4 A

2 X + Jan

45pts

Howl + 3 ties

Vader + 2 ints

I've also used 200 points for demos with ISDs and MC80s. They were a blast!

(Although, really hard to kill. I let the new player win by taking small ships and feeding them to it one by one.)

I really disagree with adding upgrades to a demo with a new player. Actually, that's not true. If we're talking 'experienced' gamers, then yes, a few upgrades would work. Kind of a "Normal" difficulty. Strip them out for a 'tutorial'?

Agreed.

I think the Core Set had it right, but now with the Imperial out you can do the same but then grander. The demo game should still capture the overbearing Empire against the scrappy Rebellion.

(Or, one could say, the guarantor of galactic civilization and order vs. a pathetic insurgency, but that's just me...)

Anyway, I do think epic is good, and it's great to have that on people's mental maps, but for starters simpler is better.

I like to introduce some interesting upgrades that are thematic as well in my demo games. In the last demo game I ran, I did:

VSD-II + HTT

Raider-I

Howl + 3x Ties

MKII
CR90 + TRC

Luke + 2x Xwings

Felt pretty balanced and fun at the same time.

I really disagree with adding upgrades to a demo with a new player. Actually, that's not true. If we're talking 'experienced' gamers, then yes, a few upgrades would work. Kind of a "Normal" difficulty. Strip them out for a 'tutorial'?

Agreed.

I think the Core Set had it right, but now with the Imperial out you can do the same but then grander. The demo game should still capture the overbearing Empire against the scrappy Rebellion.

(Or, one could say, the guarantor of galactic civilization and order vs. a pathetic insurgency, but that's just me...)

Anyway, I do think epic is good, and it's great to have that on people's mental maps, but for starters simpler is better.

I am actually planning to demo the game today. Not entirely sure what I will use but I am planning to use mostly wave 2 stuff except for a raider and no upgrades.

Okay here is what I ended up doing.

Victory 2 with Tarkin

Gladiator 2

Raider 2

4 TIE fighters

2 TIE bombers

Vader

vs

AFKmk2 with dodonna

CR90-A

Nebulon Escort Frigate

2 X-wings

Luke

2 Y-wings

1 A-wing

I played imperials and won. Though my opponent spread out their forces and had some poor activation choices. He really seemed to enjoy the fight even though he lost. Any ideas how to improve this list? I don't have any scum and villian unfortunately.

For me, the key to successful demo games is to keep things simple, but add some theme and introduce some of the mechanics available in the game.

For example, in the list I gave above, I always demo with 2 flavors, Rebels and Imperials, and I always let my opponent choose which one to try out.

I always include an upgrade or two, but always low, to keep things simple but entertain the fact that there's a ton of upgrades in the game and these are only some of them.

I always try and build something that I think is fair for both players.

I always try and include one medium ship that's slower, and one ship that's faster.

I always try to keep the overall mechanics low, so not overloading in named pilot, titles or upgrades, and only playing with similar squadrons (all ties, or all xwings).

I always try to keep the mystery: no commanders to dilute the ruleset, but I make it known that in real games there's always an admiral to lead the force. This means no objectives either.

I always try to keep the point range low because you're play a demo, not a full game, and every minute should be used to capture your audience's attention.

I always try to put some theme in there: Luke and X-Wings are familiar, HTTs on a Victory or a swarm of TIE Fighters.

Lastly, I always try to give as much advise as possible while letting my opponent make his own mistakes and decisions. No free games, as I find that free games lead to less replay value in the future. Oh, and always talk about the game afterwards: What you could have done, what they could have done, how things could have been different..etc.

I've been demoing games for a variety of games since my earliest days teaching Academy classes at GW. The formula above is what I found to be most effective at keeping the suspense alive, giving a fair game, and demonstrating the mechanics of the game without overwhelming the other player with too much info.

This might sound like a sales ploy or something, but it's really not. Always give a demo with the saying "but wait, there's more!" in your head. If you're not actively engaging your audience while keeping the mystery alive, then the demo wasn't very effective. Not to put TallGiraffe on blast, but look at the list he gave with Tarkin, the Y-Wings, A-Wings and special characters. For me, that's just too much for a new player. Too many keywords that you have to explain and too many things to remember in a short time. You want to present a minimum amount of special rules when giving out demos, especially to a newer player, and the point range and activations should be much lower.

I might crap on GW a lot because well, they're GW, but once you take out the trying-to-sell-you-crap-after routine, their demo strategy is actually quite excellent.

I think the Demo I would want to run in an Ideal situation would have a bit of everything.

Use commanders, but use someone like Motti over Screed. Simple, but enough to remind you of the global capability.

Upgrade the ships with a single card, maybe two for large ships. Something you can ignore until it comes up, but that doesn't require dexterity with the system to use to great effect. Something like SW7 Ions instead of Overload Pulse, or a Gunnery Team instead of a Ruthless Strategists.

Definitely use a single named Squadron and a swarm of faction basics. Luke over the Falcon, Howlrunner over Mauler.

It boils down to sowing the seeds for the required lanes of thought without requiring them to be able to use them right away through cards that take the least mental effort to track, IE constants over situationals.

For me, the key to successful demo games is to keep things simple, but add some theme and introduce some of the mechanics available in the game.

For example, in the list I gave above, I always demo with 2 flavors, Rebels and Imperials, and I always let my opponent choose which one to try out.

I always include an upgrade or two, but always low, to keep things simple but entertain the fact that there's a ton of upgrades in the game and these are only some of them.

I always try and build something that I think is fair for both players.

I always try and include one medium ship that's slower, and one ship that's faster.

I always try to keep the overall mechanics low, so not overloading in named pilot, titles or upgrades, and only playing with similar squadrons (all ties, or all xwings).

I always try to keep the mystery: no commanders to dilute the ruleset, but I make it known that in real games there's always an admiral to lead the force. This means no objectives either.

I always try to keep the point range low because you're play a demo, not a full game, and every minute should be used to capture your audience's attention.

I always try to put some theme in there: Luke and X-Wings are familiar, HTTs on a Victory or a swarm of TIE Fighters.

Lastly, I always try to give as much advise as possible while letting my opponent make his own mistakes and decisions. No free games, as I find that free games lead to less replay value in the future. Oh, and always talk about the game afterwards: What you could have done, what they could have done, how things could have been different..etc.

I've been demoing games for a variety of games since my earliest days teaching Academy classes at GW. The formula above is what I found to be most effective at keeping the suspense alive, giving a fair game, and demonstrating the mechanics of the game without overwhelming the other player with too much info.

This might sound like a sales ploy or something, but it's really not. Always give a demo with the saying "but wait, there's more!" in your head. If you're not actively engaging your audience while keeping the mystery alive, then the demo wasn't very effective. Not to put TallGiraffe on blast, but look at the list he gave with Tarkin, the Y-Wings, A-Wings and special characters. For me, that's just too much for a new player. Too many keywords that you have to explain and too many things to remember in a short time. You want to present a minimum amount of special rules when giving out demos, especially to a newer player, and the point range and activations should be much lower.

I might crap on GW a lot because well, they're GW, but once you take out the trying-to-sell-you-crap-after routine, their demo strategy is actually quite excellent.

Other than the commanders I think he was pretty invested and grasping everything well enough. He loved the A-wing though he kept Luke back too far.