R2D2 and R5P9. Double Regeneration. No thanks.

what about "You may equip a second, non-unique Astromech upgrade card for free"?

It doesn't mean that the ship has two astromechs, but that the astromech it has is more talented and can perform both abilities.

PTL+R2D2(unique)+R1+Engine upgrade Wedge = Rapetrain with no brakes.

Batwedge is cool enough, and guess what? now he takes 1 point R1 droid, getting 1 supershield and buffing BB-8 Batwedging to UNIMAGINABLE levels

For R1 you mean R2 Astromech, right?

I see the exploitable combo there with R2-D2 being also an R2 Astromech (isn't him actually?), or BB-8 being able to act with all speed 1 or 2 maneuvers...

However, would that really break the T65 X-Wing?

What is the main problem of the Rebel astromechs compared with the Scum astromechs? That while all the Scum astromech are great for their cost, most Rebel ones are not so useful, or are really restricted for what the cost.

R2 astromech R2-D2 Engine Wedge would allow him to heal one shield whenever he moves at speed 1 or 2. That is certainly on par of giving it a free evade token after every move at particular speed. And guess what?, TIE/x7 Defenders will get exactly that for -2 points.

R2 astromech BB-8 Engine Wedge will allow him to barrel roll, then move green, then boost every round that he moves at speed 1 or 2, for 35 points. It is certainly not so broken considering that he still has 6 hit points behind 2 agility. He can do fancy moves and tricks at the expense of not modifying his dice, but... is not that what precisely the T65 is lacking right now?

Do you think those two Wedges, one costing 37 points, the other costing 35, would warp the meta that badly?

I think not. I think that gives extra tools and customization to a ship and a set of pilots that are really in need of better tools and customization options.

Yes, I stand corrected, R2 droid.

Aside from having a-wing grade greens (2 hard green, daym!) you can regen every turn and become a monstrous PTL user.

R2+R2D2 is a monstrous buff.

Rebel droids trigger on greens because the greens aren't grand. That's the main point here. They shouldn't trigger in acny circumstances, but are great.

Merc astromechs? They can be installed on 2 ships, and aside from the DERPIEST DROID EVER (no, really, a droid that eats a crit like integrated astro, provides no bonuses while it's not thrown out of the airlock, and works only 50% times)

Agromech? Niche upgrade for U-boat. Tailored for it, and hardly useful outside Blaster Kavil

Unhinged? Solitary "pinp my Y" astro, usefulness is hardly a case for JM5k, because of it's "Mercs don't get 3 hard turns" curse

Smiley R11? Drea Rental's pet, otherwise useless.

Genius? VI EU Proton Kavil is FUN, but costs like fat han >_>

BB-8+PTL is great, borderline AWESOME, but limited by flying_fork_greens, and suddenly it has...how many? 8 greens, including hard turns? SWEET JESUS, NOW BATWEDGE CAN MAKE 3 ACTIONS PER TURN WITH NO STRESS INDUCTION AND MAKING A HARD TURN TIGHTER THAN USUALLY

Ъ_Ъ

Wedge 29+ptl3+BB82+R2 1= 35

Nothing escapes his wrath, his 3-4 dice of focus+TL doom! He is the night! A 7 hp monster with PS9 >_>

So you want a free droid. Free Fire Control System. Plus a additional System Slot. Good luck with that.

Are you aware how frightfully shite the E-Wing is right now?

BB-8+PTL is great, borderline AWESOME, but limited by flying_fork_greens, and suddenly it has...how many? 8 greens, including hard turns? SWEET JESUS, NOW BATWEDGE CAN MAKE 3 ACTIONS PER TURN WITH NO STRESS INDUCTION AND MAKING A HARD TURN TIGHTER THAN USUALLY

Ъ_Ъ

Wedge 29+ptl3+BB82+R2 1= 35

Nothing escapes his wrath, his 3-4 dice of focus+TL doom! He is the night! A 7 hp monster with PS9 >_>

Surely, you make it sound broken. But I don't see it so broken for its cost and its action bar.

It would still fall to turrets. A couple of TLT carriers would still deal 4 damage per round to him.

It would still be arc-dodged, but with more difficulties, as Wedge should be, but Soontir or Whisper could still dance around him.

It still rolls 3 dice, even if double modified. Remember that an X-Wing cannot really do much with PTL other than focus and TL. Soontir can do much more with it than Wedge ever could.

It's 7 hp behind 2 agility, without autothrusters, without Palpatine. Roughly at firespray or jumpmaster range of health/cost rate.

Also, like Soontir or Whisper, it's not really an spammable thing. Wedge is unique, as is BB-8 or R2-D2. You can have an awesome ship in the game as long it's expensive, killable and/or counterable.

And it should fall to turrets. Because it's a jouster, not autothruster ace. It's normal, it's exactly the way it should be!

go ahead and arcdodge a mini-prenerf-whisper with BR before move and a hard turn after that (or a bank that almost keeps you in place, but banks your arc)

with in-built PS9

You roll 3 fully modded dice, enemy gets -1 die. There's hardly more damage output than that. Only fcs whisper can.

You get your BR, Focus and TL, what else should he need? He's no squint for evade actions, and 2 doids beg for integrated astro.

Soontir has no TL, so his damage otput is tons time lower. Wedge is a damage dealer, soontir is a flying turtle.

It's a firespray with small base and ton of action economy, super PS and inbuilt reactionary movement. Sucks to be firespray in such comparison >_>

It is killable, counterable and expensive. While it seems 95% of the thread dwellers want it to be inexpensive, unkillable, uncounterable and monstrously damage-dealing >_>

Just because it's an X

BB-8+PTL is great, borderline AWESOME, but limited by flying_fork_greens, and suddenly it has...how many? 8 greens, including hard turns? SWEET JESUS, NOW BATWEDGE CAN MAKE 3 ACTIONS PER TURN WITH NO STRESS INDUCTION AND MAKING A HARD TURN TIGHTER THAN USUALLY

Ъ_Ъ

Wedge 29+ptl3+BB82+R2 1= 35

Nothing escapes his wrath, his 3-4 dice of focus+TL doom! He is the night! A 7 hp monster with PS9 >_>

Surely, you make it sound broken. But I don't see it so broken for its cost and its action bar.

It would still fall to turrets. A couple of TLT carriers would still deal 4 damage per round to him.

It would still be arc-dodged, but with more difficulties, as Wedge should be, but Soontir or Whisper could still dance around him.

It still rolls 3 dice, even if double modified. Remember that an X-Wing cannot really do much with PTL other than focus and TL. Soontir can do much more with it than Wedge ever could.

It's 7 hp behind 2 agility, without autothrusters, without Palpatine. Roughly at firespray or jumpmaster range of health/cost rate.

Also, like Soontir or Whisper, it's not really an spammable thing. Wedge is unique, as is BB-8 or R2-D2. You can have an awesome ship in the game as long it's expensive, killable and/or counterable.

You're not going to get any sound arguments or reasoning out of Warpman. Just block him like the rest of us and move on.

Agromech? Niche upgrade for U-boat. Tailored for it, and hardly useful outside Blaster Kavil

You're not going to get any sound arguments or reasoning out of Warpman. Just block him like the rest of us and move on.

Nah, I really appreciate counterarguments. Otherwise this would be a resonance box.

And it should fall to turrets. Because it's a jouster, not autothruster ace. It's normal, it's exactly the way it should be!

go ahead and arcdodge a mini-prenerf-whisper with BR before move and a hard turn after that (or a bank that almost keeps you in place, but banks your arc)

with in-built PS9

A barrel roll isn't as bad to predict as a decloak. You can barrel roll 1 base left or right. Decloak is 2 bases left, right or forward.

While Whisper could end in many different places, because she can do after that whatever moved in her dial, Wedge with R2 BB-8 could basically end just about the same places as a normal Wedge could move by doing speed 1 or 2 moves, only slightly skewed left or right by 1 base distance.

Also, Whisper cloaks and gets a focus after attacking, while Wedge doesn't, and he still defends with 2 green dice.

You roll 3 fully modded dice, enemy gets -1 die. There's hardly more damage output than that. Only fcs whisper can.

You get your BR, Focus and TL, what else should he need? He's no squint for evade actions, and 2 doids beg for integrated astro.

Agility 0 or 1 ships will hardly notice Wedge's ability. The ones that suffer most are agility 3 aces, or agility 2 ones that stack many modifiers. And aces should be the ones to fear Wedge. It's thematic, and it's what the game needs. And Ace that hunts aces, but can fall to mass generics.

Certainly Integrated Astromech would make a 5 HP ship have 7 if it equips two droids. It feels a little bit too much. (Even when the TIE Defender has 6 HP behind 3 agility with soon free evade tokens for -2 points).

But maybe adding something to the Talented Droid card like "If you discard one astromech card, you must discard all astromech cards" to fix this HP problem. Also Boba Fett crew would kill the droid totally, that makes more sense.

Double droid just sounds like a named bonus people will use while the generics would still be left home.

Some new pilot cards might make them seen again. We see plenty of tie's on the table after eight waves because of the pilot abilities and the low base cost. I do not advocate for cheaper T-65's but some new pilots with abilities (perhaps that help other generic T-65's in your list) might breathe enough new life into them to make it back to the table.

You're not going to get any sound arguments or reasoning out of Warpman. Just block him like the rest of us and move on.

Nah, I really appreciate counterarguments. Otherwise this would be a resonance box

I mean, if you consider what he's saying 'counterarguments', by all means post away. But he's never going to be convinced by anything you say. This is a person who honestly believes the T-65 X-Wing is not only fine, but a good ship, despite literally every piece of evidence pointing to the contrary. MJs Jousting Values? Check. Developers Comments? Check. List Juggler showing T-65s lack of presence? Check.

Can you have a constructive argument with someone who literally denies reality? I doubt it. You'll have an easier time trying to convince a religious fundamentalist that their deity doesn't exist.

BB-8+PTL is great, borderline AWESOME, but limited by flying_fork_greens, and suddenly it has...how many? 8 greens, including hard turns? SWEET JESUS, NOW BATWEDGE CAN MAKE 3 ACTIONS PER TURN WITH NO STRESS INDUCTION AND MAKING A HARD TURN TIGHTER THAN USUALLY

Ъ_Ъ

Wedge 29+ptl3+BB82+R2 1= 35

Nothing escapes his wrath, his 3-4 dice of focus+TL doom! He is the night! A 7 hp monster with PS9 >_>

Surely, you make it sound broken. But I don't see it so broken for its cost and its action bar.

It would still fall to turrets. A couple of TLT carriers would still deal 4 damage per round to him.

It would still be arc-dodged, but with more difficulties, as Wedge should be, but Soontir or Whisper could still dance around him.

It still rolls 3 dice, even if double modified. Remember that an X-Wing cannot really do much with PTL other than focus and TL. Soontir can do much more with it than Wedge ever could.

It's 7 hp behind 2 agility, without autothrusters, without Palpatine. Roughly at firespray or jumpmaster range of health/cost rate.

Also, like Soontir or Whisper, it's not really an spammable thing. Wedge is unique, as is BB-8 or R2-D2. You can have an awesome ship in the game as long it's expensive, killable and/or counterable.

You're not going to get any sound arguments or reasoning out of Warpman. Just block him like the rest of us and move on.

Block who?

X-Wings are supposed to be the ship that can do a little of everything, joust, torp boat, dogfighter. They just don't do any of those things well enough to take the place of more specialized ships in most cases.

The game however does not take into account which ships were rare, prone to breaking down, hard to fly and crashed often. Simply using MathWing what is the efficiency of lining up and killing your opponent and/or being killed. Maybe since the X-Wing was so common but no the best fighter because of other specialize ships. We should have a new FAQ that says all Rebel squads must have 1 X-Wing as part of their squad. Nah.... never work. Too bad.

However it is ironically funny, if the above is correct, that this is exactly the issue of the X-Wing preforming in the game the way they are depicted else where. Too bad really. Hey maybe we should require...

The problem with two astromechs is not that it's broken, but that it's two astromechs . I mean, can't we find a more elegant solution without resorting to this kind of cringe-worthy thematic nonsense?

X-Wings are supposed to be the ship that can do a little of everything, joust, torp boat, dogfighter. They just don't do any of those things well enough to take the place of more specialized ships in most cases.

However it is ironically funny, if the above is correct, that this is exactly the issue of the X-Wing preforming in the game the way they are depicted else where. Too bad really. Hey maybe we should require...

But the X-Wing *was* good enough to do the job of all the craft. If a Y-Wing gets jumped by a squad of Tie Interceptors, they drop like a sack of bricks. An X-Wing can blast it's way out and continue with the mission. The B-Wing is a dedicated anti-capital bomber, so while it will be better than the X-Wing at that, the X-Wing will have an easier time taking on the smaller frigates armed with more anti-fighter weaponry.

The game however does not take into account which ships were rare, prone to breaking down, hard to fly and crashed often.

The Points value is supposed to be used to represent these things. Therefore it shouldn't be too much to ask to have an X-Wing worth taking at it's points cost.

And it should fall to turrets. Because it's a jouster, not autothruster ace. It's normal, it's exactly the way it should be!

Then we agree on this. But weren't jousters supposed to be strong againt turrets?

go ahead and arcdodge a mini-prenerf-whisper with BR before move and a hard turn after that (or a bank that almost keeps you in place, but banks your arc)

with in-built PS9

A barrel roll isn't as bad to predict as a decloak. You can barrel roll 1 base left or right. Decloak is 2 bases left, right or forward.

While Whisper could end in many different places, because she can do after that whatever moved in her dial, Wedge with R2 BB-8 could basically end just about the same places as a normal Wedge could move by doing speed 1 or 2 moves, only slightly skewed left or right by 1 base distance.

Also, Whisper cloaks and gets a focus after attacking, while Wedge doesn't, and he still defends with 2 green dice.

You roll 3 fully modded dice, enemy gets -1 die. There's hardly more damage output than that. Only fcs whisper can.

You get your BR, Focus and TL, what else should he need? He's no squint for evade actions, and 2 doids beg for integrated astro.

Many complain that the few times a jouster manages to get a dodger in arc, 3 dice are no longer enough to make a difference. Well, with this Wedge can make a difference, without feeding the "red dice inflation" that the game would suffer if we just keep adding more red dice to all ships.

Agility 0 or 1 ships will hardly notice Wedge's ability. The ones that suffer most are agility 3 aces, or agility 2 ones that stack many modifiers. And aces should be the ones to fear Wedge. It's thematic, and it's what the game needs. And Ace that hunts aces, but can fall to mass generics.

Certainly Integrated Astromech would make a 5 HP ship have 7 if it equips two droids. It feels a little bit too much. (Even when the TIE Defender has 6 HP behind 3 agility with soon free evade tokens for -2 points).

But maybe adding something to the Talented Droid card like "If you discard one astromech card, you must discard all astromech cards" to fix this HP problem. Also Boba Fett crew would kill the droid totally, that makes more sense.

Actually this was an idea, but after Turrets got EU and started dodging jouster arcs and dodgers got AT negating turrets, it seems FFG decided to turn the tide backwards, so now it's supposed to make jousters a counter to dodgers, to make the circle complete, because currently Jouster<turret<dodger>jouster

You can , but the main thing here is that a BR to the right followed by a turn to the left is REALLY hard to avoid, and impossible to avoid it and keep him in arc.

Still, he's nigh unavoidable. He's no arcdodger, but he denies you your dodge. Exactly what a jouster in "new" era has to do.

3 dice with flat focus. Like a rookie, yes. 2,25 damage roughly. Nowhere near "soontir penetration" level.

But those 0,75 are re-rolled and we keep focus for those eyeballs, so Wedge has mathwing damage of 2,8125 and theoretical soontir has only 3 dice, with focus and evade, giving us a not_as_brilliant 1,875 with no palps or evades. So wedge alone can drill through soontir. That's a freaking FEAT upon itself.

Falcon notices wedges ability when C3PO ceases to function >:} because if there's no roll, how can you guess the result of roll? Mwahaha!

Wedge is a good ace-counter, but the problem is, he's an ace himself. And gets munched by like everything else, except for other vanila jousters that he can DODGE O_O

It's even better than 7 hp. The integrated droid effect is just grand

still, can't think of a way to fixt the 65 the right way, because the game needs a fix for ALL the vanila jousters, not a fix for 1 ace of old times.

Where old jousters excell is Epic, so I presume raising game point value to 150 might fix the problem of overpowered dodgers and tokenstacks exactly the way I see it.

When you face a gunline, palp is suddenly isn't a gamebreaker, nor does a token stack rock, and game returns to "predict, block, gang-ra....ahem, focus fire

The problem with two astromechs is not that it's broken, but that it's two astromechs . I mean, can't we find a more elegant solution without resorting to this kind of cringe-worthy thematic nonsense?

I agree, I don't think 2 astromechs is broken. The ships that could use them need the help.

Now, lets try to find a way around the thematic problem through the use of current game mechanics and wording. Maybe not elegant, but fairly straight forward and easily fits on a card.

Programming Upgrade

Astromech, 0 points

You MUST equip 1 unique and 1 non-unique Astromech in addition to this one paying squad points as normal.

If a game effect instructs you to discard an Astromech upgrade, you must discard ALL equipped Astromech upgrades.

That second line is so you don't get 3 uses out of IA with this.

Although I would still prefer some kind of damage boost. A native re-roll, force defenders to re-roll, crits do double damage or something, I dunno.

The X-Wing can't fully profit from most of the buffs to ordnance. Extra Munitions doesn't fit, Guidance Chips means giving up IA and the T-65 does not have a lot of Deadeye candidates. So X-Wings with torpedoes are not likely to become OP. That is why I think the increase in offensive power should be realized by giving the ship a discount on torpedo upgrades. For example: 'reduced by 4 to a minimum of 0'.

I don't know how to fix the T-65 or if it NEEDS a fix but........... like many players since the game began, I wish ordnance was more viable for the X-Wing. Figure out how to do that and call the T-65 fix done.

The free system worked wonders for the TIE Advanced. So a free torpedo for the T-65 maybe? And/or the ablity to mount Guidance Chips in addition to another modification?

The free system worked wonders for the TIE Advanced. So a free torpedo for the T-65 maybe? And/or the ablity to mount Guidance Chips in addition to another modification?

Could be a possibility. But then either, both is too much.

You're not going to get any sound arguments or reasoning out of Warpman. Just block him like the rest of us and move on.

Nah, I really appreciate counterarguments. Otherwise this would be a resonance box

I mean, if you consider what he's saying 'counterarguments', by all means post away. But he's never going to be convinced by anything you say. This is a person who honestly believes the T-65 X-Wing is not only fine, but a good ship, despite literally every piece of evidence pointing to the contrary. MJs Jousting Values? Check. Developers Comments? Check. List Juggler showing T-65s lack of presence? Check.

Can you have a constructive argument with someone who literally denies reality? I doubt it. You'll have an easier time trying to convince a religious fundamentalist that their deity doesn't exist.

Oh, we have a number of other fundamentalists on these forums too, which with religious fervor defend their opinion that the Xwing should be best of all (and wishful fixes can break a lot of things) and with the same religious fervor denounce that IA is a powerful option.

You're not going to get any sound arguments or reasoning out of Warpman. Just block him like the rest of us and move on.

Nah, I really appreciate counterarguments. Otherwise this would be a resonance box

I mean, if you consider what he's saying 'counterarguments', by all means post away. But he's never going to be convinced by anything you say. This is a person who honestly believes the T-65 X-Wing is not only fine, but a good ship, despite literally every piece of evidence pointing to the contrary. MJs Jousting Values? Check. Developers Comments? Check. List Juggler showing T-65s lack of presence? Check.

Can you have a constructive argument with someone who literally denies reality? I doubt it. You'll have an easier time trying to convince a religious fundamentalist that their deity doesn't exist.

Oh, we have a number of other fundamentalists on these forums too, which with religious fervor defend their opinion that the Xwing should be best of all (and wishful fixes can break a lot of things) and with the same religious fervor denounce that IA is a powerful option.

I'd love for somebody to show me these people who 'defend their opinion that the Xwing should be best of all', because as far as I can see, people just want it to be a ship worth taking for the points you spend on it. Which it isn't.

If we want the thing to be a jouster, maybe it's time to use those adjustable deflectors.
What about something more like the "reinforce" action in huge ships.
For example :

Adjustable Deflector Shields
Action : until the end of the round, when defending, add one evade to your roll if the enemy attacking you is in your front arc.
If not, change one of your evades to a focus.


Not sure wether this is strong or not, but it does make the thing more jousty, isn't it?

If we want the thing to be a jouster, maybe it's time to use those adjustable deflectors.

What about something more like the "reinforce" action in huge ships.

For example : Adjustable Deflector Shields Action : until the end of the round, when defending, add one evade to your roll if the enemy attacking you is in your front arc.

If not, change one of your evades to a focus.

Not sure wether this is strong or not, but it does make the thing more jousty, isn't it?

I like that idea but as an action I'm not sold.

Hi everyone, my 2 cents.:

T-65 does indeed need help.
It has poor action economy, wastefull Torpedo slot, no mobility action, no fancy maneouvers and medium survivability.
I'd take that for some 18-19 points, but not for 21 base. Especially when Attack Shuttle is so much more cost-effective for what it does. Take Ezra with PTL and Chewie for example - completely blows Luke's badly aged tankiness out of the water, for 1 point less than Skywalker with no upgrades at all.

Old X-wings might have been good when it was them against 2 dice no-TL TIEs, but they were superceded in pretty much every field by Bs and T-70's. Hell, even 2 Talas are better than T-65 in most cases, and I can surely have many of you agree that Z-95 is nowhere as fun as the similarily costed TIE fighter.

Anyway, without further ado, let's roll with the wishfull thinking.:

[torpedo slot, cost 1] Decoy Dispenser/Flare Launcher: Once per round, when defending, if the attacker has spent a Target Lock or Focus token during this attack, at the beginning of "Compare Results" step, assign an Evade token to your ship.

This might actually help B-wings and Y-wings too, as they usually run around with an empty torp slot. Wording attempted to dispel any doubts.

[torpedo slot, cost 1] Tracer Pods (T-65 only): When attacking at range 2-3, you may reroll 1 attack die. If you have a Target Lock on the defender, you may instead reroll up to 2 attack dice.

[title, cost 0] Red Squadron Member (T-65 only): Your upgrade bar gains 1 [EPT] upgrade icon. You cannot equip 2 of the same [EPT] Upgrade cards. You cannot equip [EPT] Upgrade card with a squad point cost of 3 or more this way.

Got some more at the back of my head, but wanted to hear your opinions on those 3 first.

The free system worked wonders for the TIE Advanced. So a free torpedo for the T-65 maybe? And/or the ablity to mount Guidance Chips in addition to another modification?

Could be a possibility. But then either, both is too much.

This is a great idea, both thematic and useful without being overpowered. After all, it was a proton torpedo fired from an X-Wing that destroyed the Death Star. It's kind of sad that you have to choose between the much-needed fix for X-Wings (Integrated Astromech) and the equally-as-needed fix for torpedoes (Guidance Chips), so it would be nice to get a discount or something .

I honestly feel like torpedoes should be something used on larger ships. I don't think they'd be (in-universe) really very good at taking down enemy fighters, so I don't really like the idea of encouraging them as an X Wing fix.

I still prefer the idea of stutter/linked fire, putting them emphasis on their versatility (as opposed to the B Wing or A Wing, dedicated to their respective roles). The actual in-game effects I don't know about, but something that gives a boost against high agility OR low agility, would be thematic and (hopefully) enough to make them distinct from other their stable-mates.