+ 1 for X-wing title using the new 'dual cards' thing. It seems like an easy way to make them the 'Jack of All Trades' they're meant to be.

-1 for S-Foils. I hate the idea of X-wings flapping their big metal wings like birds over and over in the middle of a battle. I know it's just a name, but call it literally anything else than S-Foils please.

I like R5-K6, used him a lot with Dutch and he actually does surprising amounts of work if given the opportunity. Dutch would be borked with the option for FCS and BTL-A4 TLT. 8 TLs per turn? Yes Please!

On X Wings, R5-K6 isn't so hot. Its Dutch with BTL-A4 who makes him abuse worthy.

+ 1 for X-wing title using the new 'dual cards' thing. It seems like an easy way to make them the 'Jack of All Trades' they're meant to be.

-1 for S-Foils. I hate the idea of X-wings flapping their big metal wings like birds over and over in the middle of a battle. I know it's just a name, but call it literally anything else than S-Foils please.

Idealy, They'd stay in attack position the entire game, except on the first turn, when trying to get away from someone who has you cornered, or in epic where the board is big enough that going speed 6 is worth a turn of crappy shooting.

It's the big "mode switching" option for Xwings anyway- barring something like "power to front deflecters" or something, the Xwing's vaunted versitility is all in the dial.

Has anybody considered either of the following:

R3 Astromech (1pt)

-Your action bar gains the Barrel Roll icon. If your action bar already has the Barrel Roll icon, it gains the Boost icon instead.

Or

R6 Astromech (1pt)

-Your action bar gains the Evade action.

The R3 is intended to augment the X-wing's bland action bar and give them an option for maneuverability. This will mostly be used with Integrated Astromech to make generics decent (though some aces might like it too).

As a secondary benefit, this also helps generic E-wings a bit. Aces will still probably want unique bots, but at least this gives generics access to autothrusters. Of course, if it proves to be too good, you could have it *replace* barrel roll, if the ship already has it.

The R6 astromech is designed to give the X-wing a little more survivability to enhance its role as a jouster. If, after testing this proves to make Y-wings too good, you could add a clause that says it only works on ships with at least 2 agility or somesuch.

Both of these bots are designed to augment the crappy action bars of the X-wing (I am of the opinion that all fighter craft should have at least 3 actions on their bar).

They also fulfill a need for a generic astromech that has good synergy with the X-wing (R2 is okay, but only truly shines on the Y-Wing, R5 is worthless on every ship, and R7 is only really good on Tarn).

No. You don't Fix the T-65 by making an awesome droid. You fix it by giving it an awesome title card that plays into the theme of the ship (TIE X/1, TIE/D, A-Wing Test Pilot etc.). For the X-Wing, something that made it more versatile would be one, which,seeing the new Dual Cards mechanic, might be one way to go.

No. You don't Fix the T-65 by making an awesome droid. You fix it by giving it an awesome title card that plays into the theme of the ship (TIE X/1, TIE/D, A-Wing Test Pilot etc.). For the X-Wing, something that made it more versatile would be one, which,seeing the new Dual Cards mechanic, might be one way to go.

Did I miss the official leak of how dual cards work while I was out or are we still making assumptions? Last I heard it was still just speculation as to how it works: pick a side at the start of the match, pick a side when you feel like it, etc.

The two main theory's are: You choose one side at the start and it stays that way, or you can flip it a a certain point in a round.

Either way, it gives the user a lot of versatility. Say one side of the 'fix' title was an attack buff, the other was a defense. You might take the attack buff if you see a TLT list, but the defense if you see a Fat Turret, for example.

Rogue Squadron X-wing (title)

0 pts

Add either boost, BR or evade to action bar.

StealthX/XJ or whatever they were called (torpedo upgrade) -1 pt

Adds system upgrade slot

I really advocate the S-foils title idea. I've always liked the idea of having a 'flippable' function card. So I propose the following:

S-foils (Attack position): No real change. (Only cause I can't think of a simple fix atm)

S-foils (Flight position): Immediately perform a slam action

Sure the Bwing can use the S-foils upgrade, but it sure works better on an X-wing

Rogue Squadron X-wing (title)

0 pts

Add either boost, BR or evade to action bar.

StealthX/XJ or whatever they were called (torpedo upgrade) -1 pt

Adds system upgrade slot

Thematically speaking, I think the stealth should take the torpedo and droid slots in exchange for the system

Or something like Gaz ability. Rogue Formation: When defending and at least 2 ships with this title have the attacker in arc, add 1 evade result. I would say 1-0 points due to the nature of the requirements.

So no one thinks integrated has done the job then? I just posted elsewhere on here that I've played 2 rookies with IA in 12 games now and it's been a game changer.

It's given them 1 or 2 more rounds of shooting which makes a huge difference and the ability to look at crits and then deciding if you want to get rid is cracking.

Anecdotal evidence != Real evidence

I really advocate the S-foils title idea. I've always liked the idea of having a 'flippable' function card. So I propose the following:

S-foils (Attack position): No real change. (Only cause I can't think of a simple fix atm)

S-foils (Flight position): Immediately perform a slam action

Sure the Bwing can use the S-foils upgrade, but it sure works better on an X-wing

What about this one?

It's 0 points, so it doesn't increase the price of the already overcosted X-Wing.

Both sides have both positive and negative effects, so it's not autoinclude.

The "open" side increases the effectiveness of the ship's attacks, by adding one attack die at range 2 and 3, and depriving the defender from range 3 defense die bonus, or autothrusters. As a counter, these attacks never crit, and if you don't have focus tokens, crits actually decrease your damage output.

This should help the X-Wing actually pay for what it costs, as it increases the chance of it destroying an enemy ship before it is destroyed. The X-Wing doesn't have tricks, but becomes a dangerous jouster. Also, consider that this card doesn't mention "primary weapon", so think on what it does with certain ordnance.

The "closed" side gives you a weapons disabled token, so technically (read below) you cannot attack. However, your can perform the Evade and Boost actions that weren't available to you before. Also, all attacks against you are considered to be range 3, so you roll an extra defense die. This helps the X-Wing with survivability. If you think you are gonna be arc-dodged, go full evade or get out of their arcs. This boost or evade comes with the inconvenience of not being able to attack, so the X-Wing doesn't become a better TIE Interceptor or A-Wing. Just a more elusive jouster.

Lastly, both side have an optional Action: header that lets you immediately flip the card to the other side for the cost of one action. That allows you to make an advanced use of this card and try to benefit from both sides in a single round if you can afford it.

Integrated Astromech has definitely helped with the cheaper pilots, they are a more usable option for now, but the aces really need something else to justify their cost(I personally think post maneuver movement is needed, but EU is too expensive and removes the ability for IA).

So no one thinks integrated has done the job then? I just posted elsewhere on here that I've played 2 rookies with IA in 12 games now and it's been a game changer.

It's given them 1 or 2 more rounds of shooting which makes a huge difference and the ability to look at crits and then deciding if you want to get rid is cracking.

That's really cool! See, you didn't need to buy 12 T-70s, just 2!

Rogue Squadron X-wing (title)

0 pts

Add either boost, BR or evade to action bar.

If they would do this, they would just call the new title the T-67 or something. I mean, the T-70 has Boost, so it gained it somewhere along the lines.

I don't think the X-Wing will receive the boost action. That would make it more like the T-70 and that is not an ideal situation; these ships have to be distinct, if anything.

The Defender received two fixes that focused on its main roles: an agile fighter and a carrier for cannons. I see a similar procedure being suitable for the X-Wing. One clear role is that of the jouster. Giving a discount on ordnance would be a good way to strengthen that role. This will make it a fighter that hits hard early in the game. Another role would be that of durable attack fighter. An X-Wing is not a glass cannon; it can survive into the late game. It tries to win the game by making the three attack dice last as long as possible. So some kind of durability upgrade might be a good idea. I'd say a 0 point generic astromech might do the trick, because this makes Integrated Astromech more attractive.

Making upgrades unavailable or less attractive for the T-70 is, I think, probably a good idea, but it has to be remembered that the T-70 generics are far from too powerful - they have some room to benefit from X-Wing fixes. But aside from that, a possible way to keep the upgrades for the T-65, and possibly avoid making some aces too powerful, would be to penalize boosts and barrel rolls, for example with a stress token.

But regardless of what fix is chosen, it should make sense in the way that the Defender fixes do. It should be done with a clear aim in mind. Simply adding boost or evade just makes up for one perceived weakness relative to other ships, but will only result in less variation. If they keep compansating ships like that, they will end up all doing roughly the same thing for roughly the same points. This will only stimulate min/maxing even more, as ships become more easy to compare. And then there will be only one clear winner.

I don't see FFG putting in something radically different from the T-70. They are going to keep to the same design principles. There is still enough difference between the T-65 and T-70 that there shouldn't be any worry. Also, there are a ton of unique pilots that make them different ships, even if they both have Boost.

IA makes the T-65 affordable as a jouster again. What people complain about after that is the need to reposition Aces. That means they need something to give them either a Boost or Barrel Roll. If you are the designer, why would you pick Barrel Roll for the T-65 when the next version coming out has Boost? It makes no sense. I'm sure it's going to be Boost for the old X-wings. It makes sense and gives the masses what they cry for (something to fix their mistakes).

The generic T-70's don't need any fix. Why create something for them? They are fine. They have been placing in Store Championships just fine.

I don't see FFG putting in something radically different from the T-70. They are going to keep to the same design principles. There is still enough difference between the T-65 and T-70 that there shouldn't be any worry. Also, there are a ton of unique pilots that make them different ships, even if they both have Boost.

IA makes the T-65 affordable as a jouster again. What people complain about after that is the need to reposition Aces. That means they need something to give them either a Boost or Barrel Roll. If you are the designer, why would you pick Barrel Roll for the T-65 when the next version coming out has Boost? It makes no sense. I'm sure it's going to be Boost for the old X-wings. It makes sense and gives the masses what they cry for (something to fix their mistakes).

The generic T-70's don't need any fix. Why create something for them? They are fine. They have been placing in Store Championships just fine.

I also agree that the t-70 doesn't need a fix - although the recent thread about the T-70 argued that the PS2 generic is too weak (go read it, the OP's remarks are very much worth it). What I would argue, however, is the opposite: there might not be reason to specifically leave out the T-70; IA may have been much needed for the old X-Wing, it actually is welcome on the T-70 as well and not OP.

Is Integrated Astromech 'enough'? Well, the jury is still out on that one. Based on mathwing, you can make a pretty good case that it isn't. But rather than argue one way or another, I would suggest looking good at what the T-65 is supposed to do, what its role is. Then a fix or simply a new option will suggest itself much easier. Giving it options that other ships already have is probably not the way to go. Of course this does not mean doing something 'radically different'.

See... This raises an interesting question.

Why?

It's not very fluffy.

What does that mean? It's part of the EU.

The title, not the ship. A Stealth-X would lose its torpedo slot, a hull point and an attack point too. They had stripped down weapons and armour.

I don't see FFG putting in something radically different from the T-70. They are going to keep to the same design principles. There is still enough difference between the T-65 and T-70 that there shouldn't be any worry. Also, there are a ton of unique pilots that make them different ships, even if they both have Boost.

IA makes the T-65 affordable as a jouster again. What people complain about after that is the need to reposition Aces. That means they need something to give them either a Boost or Barrel Roll. If you are the designer, why would you pick Barrel Roll for the T-65 when the next version coming out has Boost? It makes no sense. I'm sure it's going to be Boost for the old X-wings. It makes sense and gives the masses what they cry for (something to fix their mistakes).

The generic T-70's don't need any fix. Why create something for them? They are fine. They have been placing in Store Championships just fine.

I mostly agree. However, rather than be radically different from the T-70, the point is that the T-70 should not try to emulate the T-70. If you want a boosting X-Wing...well, it already exists.

The T-70 exists....but it doesn't have all those awesome pilots everyone wants to keep flying. So, you want your Wedge or your Luke or your Porkins (you know you do), then you need to get the Boost version. There are 8 unique X-wing pilots that include some of the most beloved Star Wars pilots in the game. The point is to fix the existing T-65 to make all those pilots playable again. It's not a matter of making it too close to the T-70 because all the pilot abilities are different.

Also, the T-70 has a better dial and more shield for more points. It's different enough.

It's wide open what will make our beloved pilots playable again. Putting them in a watered down T-70 may or may not be the answer.

It seems obvious to me they will make a T-67 title with Boost, but I'm just one guy who thinks he knows what it will be. OK...maybe the title is called something different, but I'm pretty sure it will give the X-wing Boost. I am sticking my neck out for it and will be surprised if I'm wrong.

Then again, feel free to dream away!

I think it would be fine if it was just given a barrel roll, but then it needs the ability to carry two modifications, so one can take IA and EU. Integrated Astromech is nice, but it then limits the options, I don't like having to choose between that and other upgrades. I know people aren't a fan, because it is just using the interceptors title, but I'm ok with it.