The simple answer? Yes.

If you started at the beginning and slowly absorbed each new rule and card as it was issued, then you should be okay.

But if you are new, then the sheer number of upgrades available is overwhelming!

Spreading out the rules of the game among every single ship you sell is great marketing, but horrible for new gamers.

I know a guy who bailed on the game around wave 2, after a few games, as he was 'bored' by having to add up points and build a list from what was available back then. Now he'd likely pass on even one game.

Personally I can cope (with some mild annoyance at certain cards being unavailable as I'm never going to buy certain ships..). but new guys are really up against it.

I disagree. I started in mid/late September (2015) and I am having no trouble. My lists and play are already very strong and steadily improving.

Like any hobby, what you get out of it is proportional to what you put into it. I've done all the necessary reading, participated in "maneuver school" with my buddies, done practice battles with my wife, etc. My win/loss ratio is well into the black and I'm totally enjoying myself. My collection is missing a few key ships/cards, but the buildup is part of the fun too.

I think I picked an exceptionally good time to get into the game. Virtually every ship (well, not the Scyk) can be useful! And nothing is truly OP. I even smacked down a 4 TLT list yesterday (it appeared twice during our big New Year's gameathon; it got busted both times: once by Fett and random pals, once by a TIE swarm). And that's the only list I've seen so far that even seems impolite.

So I would say that the game is very beginner-friendly right now, based on my experience.

PTL, autothrusters, and VI are autoincludes on certain ships...

Certain pilots, maybe. But not certain ships.

And even then, only if you're functioning purely on a WAAC mentality.

The thing is if there are a ton of options, a player is under no obligation to use any particular ideology to win This is fairly healthy for the game as it indicates that minor differences between pilots isn't enough to dominate a meta.

I usually take offence to filler cards, such as stealth device. I actually had 10 of those at one point despite it's extreme lack in value for a card (Your paying 3 points for a card that probably won't even block one shot.). Meanwhile I'm happy with the special K scum fighter, as despite being effectively an X-wing none of the cards are inherently poor, just of a slightly inferior/different value to a Y-Wing offensively with a better dial and slightly worse off defence offset by possible glitterstim. Or Crackshot. Or even the super glass cannon of Cobra talonbane + stuff is fun to play now and again.

The only thing I generally don't like is a lack of real options. A false option is an upgrade that outright does nothing to contribute toward a ship An excess of real options is only a problem if you try to consider every single option at once.

I love all the options. It's now more about positioning/piloting than it is about power builds.

As long as most people throw on Push The Limit, Veteran Instincts and Autothrusters without spending a microsecond of though, as long as people talk about stuff being autoincludes, then the answer is a resounding no.

You forgot Predator

Those ares are best ones usually, and they are auto includes on various ships. You're asking us to fly blatantly suboptimal builds of things.

I really like the fact that FFG has worked hard to make it so that very few ships fall into the automatic leave at home bucket. And when something gets sidelined, they tweak it to bring it back into the fold. Thank you FFG for keeping everything competitive. But, yes, there are lots and lots of options... so bad for my bank account.

-DavicusPrime

I think it's great that there is so much diversity, although there are some that say boostwing/acewing still rule. PWTs and TLTs are still here, but so are crack swarms, wierd stuff like doom shuttle and Biggs, Poe as a super jouster (don't be fooled, he's no arc dodger), HWKs (!) for rebs and scum, anything besides Brobots for scum is welcome really, IA making rookies about equal with Bs, TIE Advanced fix ushering in Vader's return as well as giving the generics a chance to shine, FFG has done a great job. Worlds even showed us 2 Att blockers are key to add control elements.

Can't wait for Imperial vets so my defenders and bombers can join the fun! Stele X1 vs Stele /D and both being legit is awesome!

People underestimate the power of the prototype pilot as a blocker.

I think it's bad for the longevity of the game that so many of our options are spread across so many disparate ship packs. A new player won't understand that proton torpedoes suck on generic x wings. Or that generic x wings suck out-of-the-box. Then he's going to be upset when he finds out that to get the most out of them, he needs a T-70 x wing. Not only does he need the T-70, but he needs one T-70 for each T-65 he has, if he ever wants to play in a tournament.

Then rinse and repeat for the Interceptors, Bombers, Defenders, Advanced, etc etc.

Add to the problem the fact that the ship-packs don't have a list of which ships are packaged with which cards (a 'contents' heading that actually listed the card titles on the packet would be nice!) and it can be really off-putting for new players that initially thought that just buying some X Wings, or whatever their ship of choice is and putting them on the table was enough.

I really like the fact that FFG has worked hard to make it so that very few ships fall into the automatic leave at home bucket. And when something gets sidelined, they tweak it to bring it back into the fold. Thank you FFG for keeping everything competitive. But, yes, there are lots and lots of options... so bad for my bank account.

-DavicusPrime

Don't misunderstand my point. I really enjoy this game and love that FFG trys to keep old ships in the game. The way they've chosen to do that is with various upgrade cards. They include them in new expansions which we buy and in doing so get the upgrade to bring old stuff back into the game. It's a win/win sort of.

I was just saying that with the current depth of the game had I considered getting into it now I'm not sure if I would have. There's just too much, too many 'auto-includes' and yes I know you can fly Soontir without PTL or Auto-Thrusters but let's at least be serious. Just having to know what goes with what is daunting for casual and new players. My original intention was to get and X-Wing, Falcon and a couple of TIEs just for looks but I started playing and slowly bought into the game. If I was getting in now, then just after a few purchases and seeing the lists out there I might have settled for a few models for display.

Some people love the squad building / deck building aspect of the game. Some people love those types of games. Others would rather just take squads and play without the whole what goes with what, synergies, combos, 'oh no never take marksman', thought that is required before you even get to play. Unfortunately it is difficult to have both; but MtG did come out with pre-made decks that people could buy. With enough of those decks handy people could play casually and still enjoy a decent match. Tournament wise they would get stopped with a prebuilt deck but that really wasn't the point of the decks; rather it was to give people who just wanted to enjoy the playing aspect the opportunity to do so with the deck building portion of it.

Just some thoughts. I still love the game and do wish I played more.

X-wing might be at the stage where new players should probably stick to one (or two) of the factions, trying to fill out all three seems pretty daunting. Learn to play a good variety of ships in that faction before moving on to the others. If one doesn't want to buy everything but wants to try out upgrades that are only available outside the faction then proxy is certainly a way to go, or buying the cards online might be a way to go to get into the competitive side, but by that point the player shouldn't be a total noob and should have a good idea whether they want to invest in buying the expansions or not.

Still, the number of options appears to be managable to me, at least until wave 10 or 12 hits.

And if FFG ever releases the GUNBOAT that's all I'm gonna fly.

Ever.

Maybe.

X-wing might be at the stage where new players should probably stick to one (or two) of the factions.

But they can't if they want the best cards for their ships. What about Engine Upgrade for the Shuttle or Autothrusters for TIE Interceptors.

Some people love the squad building / deck building aspect of the game. Some people love those types of games. Others would rather just take squads and play without the whole what goes with what, synergies, combos, 'oh no never take marksman', thought that is required before you even get to play. Unfortunately it is difficult to have both; but MtG did come out with pre-made decks that people could buy. With enough of those decks handy people could play casually and still enjoy a decent match. Tournament wise they would get stopped with a prebuilt deck but that really wasn't the point of the decks; rather it was to give people who just wanted to enjoy the playing aspect the opportunity to do so with the deck building portion of it.

Just some thoughts. I still love the game and do wish I played more.

It is starting to feel like deck-building is more important than flying.

I'd honestly LOVE for FFG to release an X Wing 2.0 where we have faction booklets containing all the upgrades available, and instead of building decks for our ships, we write rosters/lists. Having all those extraneous cards floating around the table is a bit of a pain.

X-wing might be at the stage where new players should probably stick to one (or two) of the factions, trying to fill out all three seems pretty daunting. Learn to play a good variety of ships in that faction before moving on to the others. If one doesn't want to buy everything but wants to try out upgrades that are only available outside the faction then proxy is certainly a way to go, or buying the cards online might be a way to go to get into the competitive side, but by that point the player shouldn't be a total noob and should have a good idea whether they want to invest in buying the expansions or not.

It's still vastly cheaper than golf! When you consider that it's about $350 for clubs, $100 per 1-hour lesson (of which you'll need a bunch) and $100-$500 in green fees per game on a nice course, your wife should be very happy that you chose X-Wing instead.

It's a cheap hobby.

I don't know if I'd say having too many options a bad thing, but having too much too soon can make one (especially your wallet feel overwhelmed)

Looking back when I started the game mid wave 3 how many releases a year was there?

Now we have a wave or two, new ace packs 1-2 huge ships.

I mean that's a lot

We barely have our new toys in our hands and something else is right around the corner

Since then I feel the amount has escalated drastically in comparison.

Obviously ffg see how popular this game is and intends on making as much as they can from it

For myself if I was to get into this game now, I probably wouldn't honestly. Just because I'd feel so overwhelmed. That may not bother some, but I'd feel lost in the sea of upgrades and expansions

Sadly I likely have lost one out of two only opponents locally, and I think partly is because he is feeling overwhelmed.

One thing he did mention was that there will always be new ships you'll want to buy.

He's right. So long as ffg is making money from this There always will be something you'll want to buy. Which is a good thing imo

I just wish they'd slow it down some.

I no longer try and buy everything as soon as it's released.

I still haven't picked up the houndstooth.

Some people love the squad building / deck building aspect of the game. Some people love those types of games. Others would rather just take squads and play without the whole what goes with what, synergies, combos, 'oh no never take marksman', thought that is required before you even get to play. Unfortunately it is difficult to have both; but MtG did come out with pre-made decks that people could buy. With enough of those decks handy people could play casually and still enjoy a decent match. Tournament wise they would get stopped with a prebuilt deck but that really wasn't the point of the decks; rather it was to give people who just wanted to enjoy the playing aspect the opportunity to do so with the deck building portion of it.

Just some thoughts. I still love the game and do wish I played more.

It is starting to feel like deck-building is more important than flying.

I'd honestly LOVE for FFG to release an X Wing 2.0 where we have faction booklets containing all the upgrades available, and instead of building decks for our ships, we write rosters/lists. Having all those extraneous cards floating around the table is a bit of a pain.

I prefer the infinitely more easy route of having the cards in front of me. But again, I don't have a war gaming background, as I suspect many of X-wing players don't. I suspect that FFG will prefer to cater to those with a history of CCGs, as that is a bigger demo.

X-wing might be at the stage where new players should probably stick to one (or two) of the factions, trying to fill out all three seems pretty daunting. Learn to play a good variety of ships in that faction before moving on to the others. If one doesn't want to buy everything but wants to try out upgrades that are only available outside the faction then proxy is certainly a way to go, or buying the cards online might be a way to go to get into the competitive side, but by that point the player shouldn't be a total noob and should have a good idea whether they want to invest in buying the expansions or not.

It's still vastly cheaper than golf! When you consider that it's about $350 for clubs, $100 per 1-hour lesson (of which you'll need a bunch) and $100-$500 in green fees per game on a nice course, your wife should be very happy that you chose X-Wing instead.

It's a cheap hobby.

****. You are taking golf way to seriously. Lessons, bah. I also just to the cheap courses. 9 holes for $8. Even cheaper, because I can just walk to the course.

Heck no. We still need 2 Scum Huge Ships, and the Syck fix

I prefer the infinitely more easy route of having the cards in front of me. But again, I don't have a war gaming background, as I suspect many of X-wing players don't. I suspect that FFG will prefer to cater to those with a history of CCGs, as that is a bigger demo.

Fair enough. Although I dispute the 'infinitely easier' part! Imo, a sqaudron builder print-out (or even just keeping the roster on your phone!) is so superior to having cards on the table that it's not even in the same league!

Going through a book to see what something does seems to be a bit harder and annoying. Errata is bad enough.

As far as options I never consider too many options as a bad thing. However having an assortment of options do have some negative side effects.

First is well displacement of older options. Sure many of these were dead on arrival such as Squad Leader, Blaster Turret and R5-K6. But as more ships and upgrades come out older ships tend to be thrown nearly out of the game or at least the competitive scene of the game. You don't see X-wings anymore, A-wings are hardly in the picture, and sure all the hate on the meta dominating Phantom and Falcon but after a few waves they are now almost a memory. As better options are added some good options tend to fade away. Sure the more options the better but the meta does tend to take away options. Not to say that the meta has no diversity there is plenty of microdiversity (look at the winning list of Gencon) which IMHO provides enough variety to the game.

Which bring us to newer or returning players. Take a year off of X-wing and woah what is all this and when did it get here. For a new player the game can be overbearing, but the goal would be simple find a competitive build or a favorite faction adn build on that. For a returning player trying to get back on the competitive scene that player would have to reevaluate his collection and see not only what has been released since that person left but what spoilers are coming up in the future and how that may change the meta.

X-wing might be at the stage where new players should probably stick to one (or two) of the factions.

But they can't if they want the best cards for their ships. What about Engine Upgrade for the Shuttle or Autothrusters for TIE Interceptors.

I'm a new player and that's the biggest problem for me. I don't mind that upgrades are spread over many ships, that's the business model for X-wing and I understand that. What I don't like is that some stuff is restricted to only one ship, because it forces people collecting one faction into buying useless ships. Autothrusters are a prime example. I'm not even going to mention the "fix" for TIE Advanced (which IMHO is a blatant money grab), but at least there are many copies in the box and it's in-faction.

It would be much better for the game if there was bigger card diversity within factions, for example you'd get the 2 copies of Autothrusters with the Starviper, but also a Rebel and Imperial ship that had them, at least one copy. FFG did that with the Guidance Chips (Inquisitor and Ghost) and IMHO it was a very good move.

Going through a book to see what something does seems to be a bit harder and annoying. Errata is bad enough.

You can have a summary on your roster (and you remember how stuff works after 2-3 games anyway). Almost every wargame does that, and from what I've seen it's also possible for X-wing.

One thing I have learned about FFG, is that patience is often rewarded.

You think Autothrusters is bad. Just imagine how the first Advanced Sensors B-wings players felt. And imagine their outrage after the reveal of Wave 4.

I like the variety, and love to see them keep on coming. I joined the game in the time of the aces, (Wave 4.5 I guess), and even at that time it seemed a bit overwhelming, but it is not difficult to catch on with the upgrades, errata and FAQs. Squadron builders help there quite a lot.

On the other hand, I would ask FFG to slow down a bit (pace themselves). Maybe it's just myself and the limited time I have to play (still manage 3-5 games a week, no vassal), but I do not have enough time to try everything out, and I end up changing the lists every 2-3 games, when I would prefer to play each list possibly ten times.

I think we've reached a consensus?

Everyone likes variety.

There's a moderate section of the populace that does feel a little overwhelmed.

Nobody likes me. =P

In all seriousness X-Wing is a lot less overwhelming than most other war games, there's very little assembly and no painting required, a ship is flyable right out of the box. I don't want faction codexes to become a thing so that once a year I have to add £90 to my hobby budget for three X-Wing faction books.

The card system isn't perfect but I actually get some different ideas flipping through my decks than I do trawling through an army list for 40k or warhammer. Plus I really like the artwork on a lot of the cards and I'd miss getting them in the boxed sets.

I don't think there's too many options, but the game is definitely starting to feel bloated, which is definitely a put-off for newer players, especially when many of the 'mandatory' upgrades are hidden inside seemingly random ship packs.We're getting closer and closer to an X Wing 2.0, imo.

Idk about that, however when i see how many upgrade cards i need for certain ships to be flown efficiently, this takes more and more time to set up the ships before a game.

I ran Vader with Title, ATC, EU, Lone Wolf and PRockets lately. That's 5 upgrades for a small ship and some of them are really mandatory to play him.

Every fixed ship gets 1-2 cards that you really need to have. This is fine for players like me that have the whole collection, but if you start from scratch and don't have an unlimited budget, you can only look at some few competitive lists as opposed to someone who can just freely put together options.

I guess that's the nature of a game where expansion ships come out with the cards included, but it makes it more difficult for new players, tgat's for sure...