So I have a problem : I have 26 points left in a list, and juking Baron costs 27. Am I better taking him with a 1 point ept like crackshot or taking a ps4 (?) TAP with juke?

Can we just talk about how Valen Rudor is CAPABLE OF MOVING DURING THE COMBAT PHASE!?

He is going to do great against gunner attacks, as long as he is close enough to barrel roll or boost out of arc/ range.

Can we just talk about how Valen Rudor is CAPABLE OF MOVING DURING THE COMBAT PHASE!?

Turr Phennir accomplished that feat two years ago!

(It is a sweet thing to behold though).

What exactly is "good" about him? If you field him against me, I simply won't attack him. I don't have to worry about this though, because he's got 2 attack dice, so he'll maybe deal 1 damage to my ships over the course of a whole game. Once I've ignored him and fought against your 78 point list, then I'll deal with this dude, if a proton bomb didn't 1-shot him already.

A ship I don't have to worry about you shooting while any of the rest of my squad is around? That's great! I will enjoy putting him at the front of my squad and taking range 1 shots with no worry of return fire.

So that means your other ships that have 3 attack dice will be farther back? Good I'd hate to have to deal with 3-attack ships at range 1.

I think people here are under the impression that their opponent is going to see this guy and actually attack him and give him free actions, when there is another target available. It's like the Scum M3A pilot Laetin Ashera - Ever run her/him? You take an Evade, and think "Oooh, they'll attack and miss and I'll just keep getting evades!" except they attack someone else and pretty much you are left with Laetin who never got attacked... and then you eventually DO get attacked, but by everyone and you're dead.

It's not gonna work out the way you THINK it'll work out. I'm not going to ignore your pilot altogether, but I will chose a target that is most valuable - and this guy's ability isn't likely to trigger that much, especially with only 2 hull, his survivability is so low that it isn't exactly going to be rare to see him one-shotted.

How many times have you seen a M3A... At all? Laetin's issue isn't her ability. It's her ship (and her lack of an EPT). Now whether or not the TAP is worthwhile or not is yet to be seen, but it has some nice tools and I believe both named pilots have powerful enough abilities they will see the table if the ship is efficient.

Laetin's lack of an EPT, the problems with her ship, or the number of times I've seen other people fly M3A's are irrelevant to my point. My point is that if you build out this guy, expecting your opponent to shoot at him and trigger his ability, be prepared for it NOT to work out the way you want. Your opponent is far more likely to focus down your stronger ships FIRST, and then eventually get around to this guy. I see his pilot ability as being weak, because it is similar to Laetin's ability in that you WANT the opponent to shoot at this guy, but you can't force them to. It's like Biggs but they have the option to ignore it altogether.

Aaaah. Ok. So your point is if someone builds a list with him and is stupid enough to think he is going to be their opponents first priority target, they will be disappointed to find he's not. Understood and agree.

Can we take a moment to acknowledge how dope the Inquisitor is? 3 firepower interceptor that denies range bonus to defenders? That is awesome... And a rules headache. Even more excited for this guy than before.

Also want to build Rude Dudes squad with Soontir(ude), Rud(e)or(ude), and Turr(ude) ... Commence operation Sandstorm! (Techno music intensifies)

Can we just talk about how Valen Rudor is CAPABLE OF MOVING DURING THE COMBAT PHASE!?

Turr Phennir accomplished that feat two years ago!

(It is a sweet thing to behold though).

...But a lot! A LOT.

He can do it every time he's attacked.

My first thought is to put Juke on him. The usual problem with Juke is that an enemy can nullify it by stripping the evade from you before you fire, but against Valen you're activating his ability and risking that he might not need to use his evade. Basically, you win if they shoot you, and win if they don't

That said, I am liking the sound of Expose with Experimental Interface. If they shoot you, you get +1 att and a focus to go with your target lock. All together, that's a serious boost in firepower. As has been pointed out already, your opponent will probably not want to shoot Valen, but this in turn allows you to play more aggressively with him.

He can do it every time he's attacked.

3 times if you put daredevil on him.

But that's it.

He can do it every time he's attacked.

Well, twice. If he is attacked twice. One boost, one roll.

3 times if you put daredevil on him.

But that's it.

Yeah, that.

Also:

If you only take a focus and attack with Turr you can still Boost, PtL, Barrel Roll. Potentially away from arcs or out of range, before you get attacked.

I was mainly hoping people caught the Happy Gilmore reference in my first post.

The problem with rudor is he's not the inquisitor

The problem with rudor is he's not the inquisitor

Yes, true, but unlike other pilots who suffer from the similar issue (Esege, Atsy, Jax), he's a full 3 points less, giving him a lot more room to make up for the less valuable ability.

He is going to do great against gunner attacks, as long as he is close enough to barrel roll or boost out of arc/ range.

The real question here is would he then get one free action, or two?

Lol, sadly enough, I actually think Expose will work on him. Consider if he was the last shooter, and got to use like 3 actions for Focus + TL + free Evade + Barrel roll out of an arc.

Can we just talk about how Valen Rudor is CAPABLE OF MOVING DURING THE COMBAT PHASE!?

Turr Phennir accomplished that feat two years ago!

(It is a sweet thing to behold though).

Get Turr, Valen, and a PTL/Ysanne/EU Decimator in the same list and move all of your ships in the combat phase!

The problem with rudor is he's not the inquisitor

I think that they're radically different enough that there's a place for either depending on what you need. Inquisitor is going to fight a lot like a cannon armed Defender. Rudor is a different beast entirely. Everyone is going to want to kill the Inquisitor right off the bat. Rudor potentially punishes your opponent for going for him. Which is better will depend on if you want your opponent to focus on the rest of your squad or not.

There's not much that'll make rudor a threat even if your opponent ignores or goes after him. The non-inq TAPs all suffer from limited offensive punch outside of juke + tie/v1

Don't see a single missile being worth much (definetly not the difference between rudor and inq, 3 points)

Rudor is 27 with tie/v1 + juke + thrusters. Maybe it's good, but it remains 3-4 points from the terrifying inquisitor

There's not much that'll make rudor a threat even if your opponent ignores or goes after him. The non-inq TAPs all suffer from limited offensive punch outside of juke + tie/v1

Don't see a single missile being worth much (definetly not the difference between rudor and inq, 3 points)

Rudor is 27 with tie/v1 + juke + thrusters. Maybe it's good, but it remains 3-4 points from the terrifying inquisitor

a procket on him is no threat to you..? I think it is, especially with his TL+juke/evade. you shoot him, and just handed him the focus he craves. you don't shoot him..? 2red/TL/juke is still "a thing", and there's a procket next round to give you the same problem all over again.

it's all theory, yeah. I'm eager to put it to the test, though.

One turn prockets < always inquisitor

Same point difference

Which is why I thought of tie/v1 juke for a more appreciable and long term bonus. Still, rudor just isn't as scary. He could be hilariously annoying, but he's not ignoring range 3 bonuses + thrusters

So does this mean Rudor's ability kicks in twice when someone tries to thwack him with a TLT? Also I can't wait to get a points cost for the mysterious "Baron of .." cards. With Rudor and Fell I'm hoping I have enough points to squeeze in a pair of these mystery Barons for my Barrel of Barons list.

So does this mean Rudor's ability kicks in twice when someone tries to thwack him with a TLT? Also I can't wait to get a points cost for the mysterious "Baron of .." cards. With Rudor and Fell I'm hoping I have enough points to squeeze in a pair of these mystery Barons for my Barrel of Barons list.

everything points to "yes".

IMO 'Rudolph' is quite good. so is no doubt the inqusitor.

what bothers me the most about this ship is the fluff.. a prototype of a prototype that still seems to be mass produced, more manouverable than most stuff that comes out of these prototypes, the fact that it didn't exist before the mouse said otherwise and so on.. the looks also don't sell it to me ATM.

at the very least I'll replace the mini EVERY TIME in casual games and just pretend its a tie/adv. .. and also that the named ones aren't disney animated toys, I'll just rename them..

I really try, but can't warm up to sw:rebels.

it's a kid's show, and I'm okay with that; I just want it to be a show for grown-ups, too - but can't see it as that.

So does this mean Rudor's ability kicks in twice when someone tries to thwack him with a TLT? Also I can't wait to get a points cost for the mysterious "Baron of .." cards. With Rudor and Fell I'm hoping I have enough points to squeeze in a pair of these mystery Barons for my Barrel of Barons list.

My working title is "Bad News Barons".

Still waiting to see what, exactly, is also coming with Wave 8 before I finalize the last ship(s) with the Barons. I'm guessing the "Baron of"s are 18pts, which would put me at 98 if they're naked with a fully loaded Soontir and Juke+v1+thrusters Rudor.

Which... may not be super ideal?

But the two Barons together leave you with 38 points left over. You're either looking at one more ace or a pair of cheap generics (or TIE Fighter "aces").

I'm cautiously optimistic that Rudor will be able to deal out solid damage thanks to Juke, but part of me still wants to squeeze some more "oomf" in the damage department out of the rest of the list. Vader is probably the super obvious choice, but I wouldn't mind someone a bit more annoying. I know you shouldn't fly Interceptors and Phantoms together, but throwing in "Echo" with a Rebel Captive would make this one really annoying list....

EDIT: Better yet? Bounty Hunter with Rebel Captive. Slow roll him through the middle pounding out his three dice while you flank with The Barons. Shoot at the Bounty Hunter? Take some stress! Shoot at Fel? Lol evade token lol double focus lol autothrusters lol threw five natural evades anyways. Shoot at Rudor? Actions!

Then a fully loaded Carnor Jax creates its own form of misery, and leaves enough room to put Prockets on Rudor (who, with his shenanigans, then becomes a risk to get into position to fire them in combat phase...)

People act like choosing between the inquisitor and the baron is a binary

Actually rolling with both is not a bad idea.

So does this mean Rudor's ability kicks in twice when someone tries to thwack him with a TLT? Also I can't wait to get a points cost for the mysterious "Baron of .." cards. With Rudor and Fell I'm hoping I have enough points to squeeze in a pair of these mystery Barons for my Barrel of Barons list.

everything points to "yes".

IMO 'Rudolph' is quite good. so is no doubt the inqusitor.

what bothers me the most about this ship is the fluff.. a prototype of a prototype that still seems to be mass produced, more manouverable than most stuff that comes out of these prototypes, the fact that it didn't exist before the mouse said otherwise and so on.. the looks also don't sell it to me ATM.

at the very least I'll replace the mini EVERY TIME in casual games and just pretend its a tie/adv. .. and also that the named ones aren't disney animated toys, I'll just rename them..

I really try, but can't warm up to sw:rebels.

it's a kid's show, and I'm okay with that; I just want it to be a show for grown-ups, too - but can't see it as that.

The fact that it seems mass produced is likely just an artifact of the game. If the ship was unique, it wouldn't sell as many copies. This is purely for game play reasons.

As far as your other point it's actually not that weird for an earlier model to be more powerful, more maneuverable, more complex, etc. No more weird than it is for a prototype to be less than its final incarnation. THIS is for fluff reasons. (I'd actually say it's inferior to the advanced and interceptor, bit that's ineffectual.) There are many reasons that a prototype may or may not see production or may or may not continue to be iterated.

The Empire used cheap fighter craft that could be mass produced at low cost, and deliberately utilized modular designs. When development of this craft was in progress, it was likely decided that it's ultimate cost per unit wasn't worth it or the cost was too much to risk on a single pilot. So, for later production models, its capabilities were drawn back so that its cost would not be prohibitive.

Compare to the episode of Rebels with the Prototype B-wing. That ship is obviously technologically superior to the eventual production model, but it was likely unrealistic to mass produce such a craft.

He is going to do great against gunner attacks, as long as he is close enough to barrel roll or boost out of arc/ range.

Gunner attacks are performed "immediately after", while Valen Rudor lacks the "immediately" keyword. So I believe the window for triggering his free action cannot come before Gunner, as written. In any case, I think it'll be FAQ-worthy.The real question here is would he then get one free action, or two?

Pretty sure that since gunner is two separate attacks, as soon as the first ends, he should be allowed to move. Definitely FAQ worthy though.