We can finally put the stupid "you will dismember yourself with a lightsaber if you don't have the Force" line of thought in the garbage were it deserves to be be.

Because Finn, who is not a force user at all, fights with one twice and does really **** well with it. He loses both fights, but for someone who has zero training with the weapon, that's to be expected.

So. No more of that nonsense.

I'd imagine Stormtroopers have at least basic melee training.

A lightsaber feels odd because the blade has next to no weight but it's certainly useable. Deflecting blaster bolts with it takes force sensitive precognition though: a force insensitive can only really use it as a sword.

Which is already represented in the game mechanics! Lightsaber Skill can't be learned unless someone trains the person. And without the Force the fighter is limited to using brawn. Melee fighters have high Brawn, so usually they can wield a lightsaber somewhat okay, even without proper Training. They just can't get Triumph results.

We can finally put the stupid "you will dismember yourself with a lightsaber if you don't have the Force" line of thought in the garbage were it deserves to be be.

Because Finn, who is not a force user at all, fights with one twice and does really **** well with it. He loses both fights, but for someone who has zero training with the weapon, that's to be expected.

So. No more of that nonsense.

No more nonsensical than any other concepts people have on here. People have many different views on how their game should be. For me there are no Mandalorians any more. They are a lost culture.

Which is already represented in the game mechanics! Lightsaber Skill can't be learned unless someone trains the person. And without the Force the fighter is limited to using brawn. Melee fighters have high Brawn, so usually they can wield a lightsaber somewhat okay, even without proper Training. They just can't get Triumph results.

This is correct. And the nice thing is that a GM can spend a Destiny point to upgrade a purple to a red die (thus a chance for a Despair result) if he so chooses to emulate the danger of using a lightsaber for such a character. But this isn't an actual rule so doesn't need to affect everyone. In the end everyone wins.

Someone with a 5 Brawn is going to be highly effective with a lightsaber in the game. To get to the really cool moves you need to be a Force user. That's pretty consistent with what we see in the movies.

In reality if people got to messing with these I think there'd be a lot of folks with the nickname 'lefty'....

The best thing about Force Awakens is that they've reverted to treating the Jedi as a mysterious legendary order rather than the bloated ineffective bureaucracy it was in the prequels. The second best thing is that they've moved beyond the Sith. I am so sick of them.

The best thing about Force Awakens is that they've reverted to treating the Jedi as a mysterious legendary order rather than the bloated ineffective bureaucracy it was in the prequels. The second best thing is that they've moved beyond the Sith. I am so sick of them.

The best thing about Force Awakens is that they've reverted to treating the Jedi as a mysterious legendary order rather than the bloated ineffective bureaucracy it was in the prequels. The second best thing is that they've moved beyond the Sith. I am so sick of them.

The first point is only true due to the Jedi being wiped out. There is a story there where Luke started to bring the Jedi back but failed due to what happened with his nephew. It doesn't mean that the order can't be resurrected in some form yet. I think what people are more enamored with is the return to the minimalist approach to presenting laser sword wielding wizards. The prequels, due to their time-frame, had a abundance of them which I think over-saturated everything. Now there are certain expectations for some fans that must be met for it to be Star Wars for them.

On a related note, I think Finn period is one of the best things about Force Awakens. Yeah, he wanted to run a lot, but unlike a lot people he knew exactly what they'd be going up against. Seeing him take up the 'saber against Kylo Ren was one of the best points of the movie. Boyega's performance was to the point that during that scene you could see his internal acknowledgement of "oh man, this is gonna suck..." when getting ready to square off with the Knight of Ren. He served as a great viewpoint character for the audience, especially those who didn't have a lot of familiarity with the Star War setting, and watching his development from an ex-stormtrooper on the run to a dedicated fighter for the Resistance was just as rewarding as watching Rey's development from a scavenger that just wanted to go "home" to taking up the mantle of the new trilogy's lead protagonist.

Granted, Finn's unfamiliarity with the lightsaber during the two times he got into a protracted fight lead to him getting his ass whupped (and possibly removed on the second), but he certainly gets an A for effort. If he were a PC, as a GM I'd let him buy a rank in the Lightsaber skill to reflect the practical experience he's gotten.

Got to say that I really enjoyed the interplay between Rey and Finn. Some of the best highlights of the film for me. Much as I enjoyed seeing the old ones again.

For me there are two main points:

1) The story is character driven: the people make decisions and face the consequences, instead of just stumbling from one nice picture into the other. And These characters develop over the course of the movie: Rey and Finn most obviously, but also Han and the old bunch.

2) The actors really act! They obviously could read a script and there was a director that told them where he needed them to go and suddenly you get drawn into the movie by the emotions. You can feel how they are afraid, or confused, or tired-but-have-to-go-on. Man, Luke has something like one minute of screen time and half of that only his back in a cloak. But what a presence when he does turn around.

(But please no more super-size-me-star-system-destroying-weapons anymore. Really. Not a single one. Don't even mention them please. - But otherwise it is such a good movie. And it kicks off so many story arcs for roleplaying games. Did Abrams read all three FFG rulebooks?)

In regards to the movie for me it's Rey. I enjoyed Finn a lot but that movie was Daisy Ridleys' imo. The scene when she rescues BB-8 sealed the deal for me.

I really liked that the movie mostly focused on the new characters. Han played a major role but he is out way now. I hope Leia stays in the background in 8 and 9. For Luke part of me wants to see him kick Snoke's ass but I think I really want to see Ray and Ben join forces to destroy Snoke.

I think Luke has already kicked Snoke's ass and that is why he has those scars. I guess we will be that in a novel eventually (I am really looking forward to the 30 year gap being filled in over the next few years with novels and comics).

The scene when she rescues BB-8 sealed the deal for me.

Which of the five times or so in particular?

The scene when she rescues BB-8 sealed the deal for me.

Which of the five times or so in particular?

The 1st mostly.

I suspect/hope we may get an opportunity to see Luke Skywalker strut his stuff as a Jedi Master in either 8 or 9.

Even if just a brief scene in 8 where he near-effortlessly deals with a bunch of First Order stormtroopers, thus proving why Snoke wanted to ensure that Luke was kept out of the game as it were, and that you do not ### with a Jedi Master son. Even if something as simple as using his lightsaber to swat away a barrage of enemy fire before knocking the whole lot of them on their butts (unconscious but alive) with a single hand gesture, demonstrating not only his power but the level of restraint he has with that power, marking a big contrast to Kylo Ren having power but minimal restraint.

I wonder if Mark's in the kind of physical shape he'd need to be for a lightsaber battle. Granted, they could just do for him what they did for Christopher Lee in the prequels and just use stunt doubles with Hamill's face CGI'd over that of the double's, but it'd feel like a cheat. That and I suspect Luke's style would have evolved into a minimalist approach that simply renders the target a non-threat without a lot of flashy swings. It'd be quite the contrast to his father's power-heavy approach, especially the two-legged bulldozer method that Vader employed in the original films. So again, if kept minimalist and without a lot of the visually cool but really unnecessary flash that the prequel lightsaber battles had, I think Hamill could pull it off.

We can finally put the stupid "you will dismember yourself with a lightsaber if you don't have the Force" line of thought in the garbage were it deserves to be be.

Because Finn, who is not a force user at all, fights with one twice and does really **** well with it. He loses both fights, but for someone who has zero training with the weapon, that's to be expected.

So. No more of that nonsense.

Funny, that must have come from outside the WEG system. In D6 Star Wars (WEG) hitting a target required a roll in the range of 16-20 (Difficult) range. Missing by 10 or more from the base difficulty (meaning the chosen number between 16-20 before modifications for parry, terrain, etc...) resulted in someone hitting themselves. Typical dice for Characteristics was around 3D in each of the 6. So, you'd have to roll in the very low end of the result to generally hurt yourself with no dice in the Lightsaber skill (3-6 for the low end of the Difficulty (less than 10% chance), 3-8 for the midrange difficulty (about 25% chance)). That's before spending character points to boost the roll (or a Force Point if you were really desperate which would double the dice pool).

So, his few uses of the lightsaber means he had a very small chance of hurting himself, but he's not just some schlub from the farm, but a soldier with some basic training in ranged and melee fighting techniques.

Kallabecca,

The whole "you need to have the Force to use a lightsaber" has been around for quite a while, possibly even before the WEG system was first published. I know a few folks that clung to that belief yet had never once looked at a Star Wars RPG of any edition, so I don't think it's an RPG thing.

I do agree that it's nice to see that belief put to rest, even if Han already shot holes in it by using Luke's lightsaber to carve open that tauntaun in ESB.

The best thing about Force Awakens is that they've reverted to treating the Jedi as a mysterious legendary order rather than the bloated ineffective bureaucracy it was in the prequels. The second best thing is that they've moved beyond the Sith. I am so sick of them.

The first point is only true due to the Jedi being wiped out. There is a story there where Luke started to bring the Jedi back but failed due to what happened with his nephew. It doesn't mean that the order can't be resurrected in some form yet. I think what people are more enamored with is the return to the minimalist approach to presenting laser sword wielding wizards. The prequels, due to their time-frame, had a abundance of them which I think over-saturated everything. Now there are certain expectations for some fans that must be met for it to be Star Wars for them.

Indeed. In the Republic before the Empire, the Jedi were a modest size group of galactic peacekeepers and guardians. Only because of the rise of the Empire did they become rare to the point of being legendary.

The best thing about Force Awakens is that they've reverted to treating the Jedi as a mysterious legendary order rather than the bloated ineffective bureaucracy it was in the prequels. The second best thing is that they've moved beyond the Sith. I am so sick of them.

That was the plot point. The jedi steal babies. Not just good guy heroes. Anakin is not wrong about them being evil. And they did try to murder the chancellor

We don't know that Finn isn't force sensitive (yet).

I believe that both Finn and Po are force sensitive.

We don't know that Finn isn't force sensitive (yet).

I believe that both Finn and Po are force sensitive.

You mean thy will be the basis fo the new Jedi Order?

...

I hope they introduce some Alien characters too then, becasue that would not be so cool...

We don't know that Finn isn't force sensitive (yet).

I believe that both Finn and Po are force sensitive.

I actually hope this doesn't turn out to be the case, and that Finn and Poe especially are just simply very good at what they've been trained to do.

Legends had Wedge Antilles as one of the best **** pilots in the Rebel Alliance and at no point did he ever demonstrate Force-sensitivity. While Poe's abilities might be a bit overdone in the film, having him be a badass normal is more satisfying than him also having quasi-mystical powers that account for his awesome piloting abilities. One complaint I constantly saw regarding the prequels and to an extent TCW series was that if you weren't a Force-sensitive, then you rarely got to do the really cool stuff; there were some that jested that the Clone Troopers were themselves Force-sensitive as they got to do plenty of cool things in the series.

I've seen folks trying to justify Finn's heel-face turn by saying it was his latent Force-sensitivity that caused it, but I think that's a cop-out and seriously cheapens the weight of Finn's leaving the First Order. He did mention that Jakku was his first real mission, and the weight of seeing generally innocent people being butchered and one of his close friends killed in action was enough to make him begin to doubt the First Order dogma he'd been raised under. That Poe, an enemy, treated Finn like a trusted friend (even going so far as to give FN-2187 his name) probably helped cement in Finn's mind that serving the First Order was not for him.

Eh, I dunno. Even if Finn didn't cut his own face off, I don't think that lessens the risk any more for any old schlub who picks up a lightsaber. I'll keep my "untrained Despair can mean self-crit" house rule where it is. I will, though, stop upgrading the difficulty of said attempts automatically.

We don't know that Finn isn't force sensitive (yet).
I believe that both Finn and Po are force sensitive.

I actually hope you're wrong. It's nice to have some badass normals around, as it both boosts their awesomeness and the awesomeness of any Force-using characters. That said, I also buy into the notion that anybody can learn to use the Force, just some people are naturally stronger and therefore easier to train.

I don't think Poe is force sensitive, but Finn is. There are simply so many arguments for it. First, Kylo Ren felt him on Jakku, but didn't give it much thought until! Finn helped Poe to escape. Then he knew precisely who had done it. I would also argue that Maz gave Finn the lightsaber for a reason. Without Rey there, she gave it to the next force sensitive.