just saying, there are ways to make torpedoes viable without breaking the lore.

Making them laser precise and do loads of damage is NOT one of them.

a torpedo hit must HURT

And yeah, tell Luke torpedoes aren't precice enough to make 90' turns and hit tiny objects.

Lore-wise torpedoes and missiles are more precice than blaster fire.

Yes, it should. It shouldn't however, be more accurate than anything else in the game AND hit like a cement truck filled with the core of a neutron star.

So the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy made a one in a million shot that had up until this point been set up as 'impossible, even for a computer'. Yes, part of this setup includes literally showing us that a non-jedi doesn't stand a chance at hitting it.

Lore-wise no, they aren't.

Lore-wise blaster fire IS inaccurate as hell.

And it should hit like a YV filled with bricks.

While red dice don't allow us do that.

Extra dice? Doesn't quite show that.

Extra-damaging dice do. Same amount, different sides, not more dice same sides.

Luke wasn't suppose to do it. A regular Y-wing with simple targetting computer was supposed to do it, but was shot down.

Luke showed us that force-users can use the force instead of target locks to do it.

just saying, there are ways to make torpedoes viable without breaking the lore.

Making them laser precise and do loads of damage is NOT one of them.

a torpedo hit must HURT

And yeah, tell Luke torpedoes aren't precice enough to make 90' turns and hit tiny objects.

Lore-wise torpedoes and missiles are more precice than blaster fire.

Yes, it should. It shouldn't however, be more accurate than anything else in the game AND hit like a cement truck filled with the core of a neutron star.

So the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy made a one in a million shot that had up until this point been set up as 'impossible, even for a computer'. Yes, part of this setup includes literally showing us that a non-jedi doesn't stand a chance at hitting it.

Lore-wise no, they aren't.

Lore-wise blaster fire IS inaccurate as hell.

And it should hit like a YV filled with bricks.

While red dice don't allow us do that.

Extra dice? Doesn't quite show that.

Extra-damaging dice do. Same amount, different sides, not more dice same sides.

Luke wasn't suppose to do it. A regular Y-wing with simple targetting computer was supposed to do it, but was shot down.

Luke showed us that force-users can use the force instead of target locks to do it.

Lore-Wise (by which I mean the films), Blaster fire is in place for the Machine Guns of WWII fighter planes. It's as accurate or inaccurate as the pilot. It flies in a straight line at high speed. Perfect for making snap shots at close ranges, or accurate, long range shots with high deflection.

The Regular Y-Wing was supposed to *try* and do it. The Battle of Yavin was a last-ditch hopeless attack. The Exhaust Port is deliberately shown to be impossible to hit by a non-force using pilot, as well as the myriad quotes by Wedge and the others about how they're not sure a Targeting Computer is precise enough to hit it.

Obi-Wan telling Luke to turn off his targeting computer means nothing if he was just as accurate with or without it.

I would tend to say that Missiles and torps need to do reliable damage because of the extra effort you put into firing them.

The problem is that with these Red Dice, on a 4 dice Standard Proton torp you would do around 5-6 damage average, right?. That would be a lot already. Some ordnance however has special rules that make it complicated to use with another dice set. And probably too powerful too. 5 dice attacks can cause 10 damage. With 5 crits that is.

This is enormous against any ship. The meta would completely change into highest possible PS ordnance capable pilots. As no matter what defensive capabilities you have, you would always risk to just get oneshot.

This would shorten games quite a lot. Whoever gets his ordnance off first will probably kill the opponent's most valuable ship, severely hampering the reply and deciding a lot of games on the first attack. Needless to say, Rhymer, Redline, but also Miranda Doni and Nera Dantels would be gigantic in the meta suddenly.

But the question is if we want that? Blaster fire seems to be the staple of combat in SW movies. Missile or Torpedo kills seem to be quite the exception. And that's how it is in the game today. So a little more help is okay for ordnance, but a lot more and this degenerates to a missile slugfest!

Thread necro activate!

We threw this idea around during an Armada match this afternoon, but instead of the black Armada dice, we looked at the Red Armada dice:

Red die: 2 blank, 2 single hit, 2 single crit, 1 double hit, 1 Accuracy (which we'd call a Focus)

To echo some of the thoughts on the thread again, ordnance should do something heavy for the disposable nature of the cards. And if you want to see ships scrambling out of the way to avoid an Alpha Strike... knowing that a double Cluster Missile that can do a crap-load of damage all at once is heading right at you, I'm going to guess you're actually try to maneuver out of it's path. Yay for reasons to fly creatively and defensively!

Okay, thoughts? Rants? Flames?

As they have said elsewhere, even when new dice would be cool, you don't really need different set of dice to get different effects.

For example, proton torpedoes have a self modifying ability that turns an eye result into a crit result. That is almost like one of the dice rolled had three crit faces and no eye faces (kind of, I am aware that it is mathematically even better than that).

You cannot 100% mimic the Armada dice with this, but you can get quite close to it.

Imagine that there comes a new ordnance upgrade (either a weapon itself, or something that improves other ordnance upgrades, like Gidance Chips) with this text:

"You may change 1 hit to a crit; and one eye and one crit into two hits".

Or something that deals more damage without being more precise,

"If this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 extra damage per each uncancelled crit result"

So torpedoes use black dice, how about missiles use blue dice? (treat accuracy as focus).

Prockets will be worse than ever.

But why even necro this, ordnance is fine and the answer is called guidance chips.

The main thing I always thought of "Use mechanic tweaking where possible, not create more and more cards for that."
FFG chose the card path, that's a fact.

So yep, currently we got ourselves guidance chimps that fix the mathwing. But it does not fix thhe logics of situation and creates teh CARDHEAP problem. Hopefully they'll make X-w 2.0 one daty and implement ordnance dice.

But why even necro this, ordnance is fine and the answer is called guidance chips.

I'm not sure I'd call it "fine" yet. We've seen a few ships using Plasma Torpedoes but that has more to do with giving out EPTs like they're Halloween candy, than just the Guidance Chip alone. It's only adding one guaranteed hit, and doesn't do a thing for non-EPT/Deadeye ships.

Until we think that adding 4-points for a Proton Torpedo to a non-Guidance Chip X-Wing is a good value for those 4 points... when we get there, then I'd consider ordnance fixed. Throwing around the idea of the red Armada dice, it becomes a single occurrence attack that can - if rolled - do up to 8 Hits at once. I'd call that much better value for the 4 points for a single use attack.