Reinforcement Characters, what would like to see next as one? Do your players use them? Named Hero's as reinforcement characters( Captain Darnath Lysande )? Xeno and Chaos as reinforcement characters? How many points and influence would you need to use a deamonhost? (or did I miss that in the books?) Eldar Ranger? Tau crisis suit? Imperial Knight (when things go really bad)?
Reinforcement Characters, what would like to see next as one?
Since they missed the obvious time to add it...
Gunships/Naval forces/Air support/anyone with vehicular capability (though I suppose a lot of this can just be handled in narrative time)
but most likely we're just going to get more Assassins as well as some more radical choices such as Sorcerers.
Since they missed the obvious time to add it...
Gunships/Naval forces/Air support/anyone with vehicular capability (though I suppose a lot of this can just be handled in narrative time)
but most likely we're just going to get more Assassins as well as some more radical choices such as Sorcerers.
Good point, most groups neglect a pilot. Hmm, I guess a "reinforcement character" could be a void ship too. "We need to get to "blank" get a ship".
Or to summon a Black ship.
Since they've already statted some of the iconic temple assassin types, I'd really like to see them get to all four.
I could see that, I want the Assassins to be elite advances though.
Edited by JoekerWell, there's no good reason that Assassins - like other archetypes - cannot be both.
I'll second all 4 assassins and add Venenum assassin and Officio Sabotorum operative.
I'd like to see military units. Like a squad of 10 storm troopers. Stuff like that. Stuff you could actually get. These games are generally too low level for big heros to show up. I just want a few guys with guns.
Edited by fog1234I assume we're getting the fourth Officio branch in Enemies Beyond, if they keep with the pattern of one per book.
These games are generally too low level for big heros to show up. I just want a few guys with guns.
I wouldn't say too low level, but I think it kind of sucks that the Reinforcement Characters seem to be intended to steal the show. If there are any big heroes at all, it generally ought to be the player characters. But this way, it's just like the dreaded GMPC who pops up and demonstrates just how much better he is, except that this time around it's the players who get to play them. The face- and backgroundless combat monster with OP stats and gear straight out of some boring book page, who gets to kicks ass whilst the actual PCs with their (hopefully) lovingly crafted backstories are put in the place of sidekicks.
I really don't know why that seemed like a smart idea, other than the niche purpose of an "alternate party" as I vaguely recall one group on this forum using in DH1.
tl;dr: Yes, yes and yes to actual extras and supporting characters rather than limelight usurpers who push the story's stars aside.
Edited by LynataIs it bad that my game's party can compete with or out-do most of the Reinforcement Characters? Those Assassins having a half-dozen Evasions each is basically the only thing they can't directly compare to; besides that, my players are able to maul threats. Especially individuals.
I imagine daemonhost reinforcement characters may show up in Enemies beyond. Also technically you can already use Chaos characters as, unless my memory is playing tricks, it states somewhere that you can use reinforcement characters from other game lines including Black Crusade.
Now that I think about it you could technically use someone's Daemon Prince as a reinforcement character if the group is radical enough. Although I imagine the cost would be quite high assuming the BC character earned their daemonhood.....
I think there's already a few Xenos to use in Enemies Without although again you would have freedom to use Kroot, Ork Freebootas and weirdboys, Dark Eldar and Tau characters from Rogue Trader as reinforcement characters.
For those that want guys with guns Only War characters might make good reinforcement characters and the Operator could be used as the driver.
In fact for those who don't want to use existing characters from other lines (or can't because they are stationed three sectors away and hiring them as a reinforcement might seem a touch ridiculous, not to mention interfere with existing storylines) creating a basic character from one of the other lines that suits the purposes and concept of the reinforcement character the players have in mind may work as well.
As always I am too lazy to look into it but I imagine the possibilities would be pretty limitless without even having to take into account the pre-generated reinforcements.
These games are generally too low level for big heros to show up. I just want a few guys with guns.
I wouldn't say too low level, but I think it kind of sucks that the Reinforcement Characters seem to be intended to steal the show. If there are any big heroes at all, it generally ought to be the player characters. But this way, it's just like the dreaded GMPC who pops up and demonstrates just how much better he is, except that this time around it's the players who get to play them. The face- and backgroundless combat monster with OP stats and gear straight out of some boring book page, who gets to kicks ass whilst the actual PCs with their (hopefully) lovingly crafted backstories are put in the place of sidekicks.
I really don't know why that seemed like a smart idea, other than the niche purpose of an "alternate party" as I vaguely recall one group on this forum using in DH1.
tl;dr: Yes, yes and yes to actual extras and supporting characters rather than limelight usurpers who push the story's stars aside.
To a certain extent I understand why reinforcement characters exist in this manner. There will be parties that are limited, or don't have any true combat capable characters. While it is a short coming on the acolytes' part, there do need to be ways for them to approach combat situations in an effective manner. While the reinforcement characters are indeed powerful, they are still no match for a truly combat focused character or party in my opinion (not at the start of course, but by the time they're at the level of influence to afford some of those stronger reinforcements they should be able to handle things more so on their own). Not only that, but paying Influence is a rather big deal, even if the party has access to the peer talents that discount reinforcement characters.
I view it as a fail-safe in case the acolytes truly get over their heads, or otherwise need to contend with forces above their weight class like Chaos Space Marines or Daemons.
An Adeptus Custodes, just so I can run them like this:
To a certain extent I understand why reinforcement characters exist in this manner. There will be parties that are limited, or don't have any true combat capable characters. While it is a short coming on the acolytes' part, there do need to be ways for them to approach combat situations in an effective manner [...]
Fair enough, that makes sense. I'd question the logic of players deliberately avoiding combat characters, but supposedly having fun playing them as Reinforcements, but as you said it makes sense to have this just in case. However, having these heroic characters even before you have a system for requisitioning grunt troops just looks weird.
(sidenote: I may also be biased due to my belief in Marines in this system being seriously OP, and one of the first Reinforcement Characters was a Deathwatch Veteran)
You know, I'd agree with you if weapons that can maul through that armor didn't come about so often. I mean, in the core introductory adventure they're practically handing a power-blade over to the group, and it only gets worse. My group at this point is packing plasma, melta, long-las, plenty of explosives and power-weapons for tough targets or when over-kill is called for (we did house-rule an extra d10 of damage and variable amounts of Proven to all grenades/missiles though; when a few low-level PCs were at ground zero of a grenade and came out unscathed even they went 'that's weak'). This isn't to say they're carrying them around constantly; they tend to pack less in social settings. But a melta can ignore most of his armor and still do 2d10+10 damage. Plasma weapons are a close contender on Maximal (with more range to avoid being mauled), grenades are more variable but up there, power weapons are still reliably wounding and a good long-las shot with Hot-Shot is doing 3d10+4 with 4 Pen, 4 Felling and Tearing. Unless you're deploying these Reinforcement Characters in groups, the lone Space Marine is sort of doomed (the Grey Knight has a much better chance of survival/killing PCs, of course). All it takes is a successful Parry or two and you've destroyed his chainsword, leaving him with his slightly less powerful fists and no way to Parry.
To a certain extent I understand why reinforcement characters exist in this manner. There will be parties that are limited, or don't have any true combat capable characters. While it is a short coming on the acolytes' part, there do need to be ways for them to approach combat situations in an effective manner [...]
Fair enough, that makes sense. I'd question the logic of players deliberately avoiding combat characters, but supposedly having fun playing them as Reinforcements, but as you said it makes sense to have this just in case. However, having these heroic characters even before you have a system for requisitioning grunt troops just looks weird.
(sidenote: I may also be biased due to my belief in Marines in this system being seriously OP, and one of the first Reinforcement Characters was a Deathwatch Veteran)
I think we can requisition more normal troops, such as hive gangers or storm troopers. In either case, I'm glad that they added options such as these, but wish that my group actually made use of them. I love playing with my group, but can't help feeling that we're somehow exponentially incompetent since a few of us seemingly actively try to make us miss investigative clues, instead opting to rush in and kill our enemies.
As for Space Marines, I think that at higher experience values the differences are mostly gone. My group takes on Chaos Space Marines with little trouble at around 10k experience. They start out stronger, but its designed to be that way to begin with. Like I said in my earlier post, eventually the Reinforcement characters aren't a big deal anymore.
Reinforcment character(s): Titan Princeps and Moderati..For when things have really gotten out of hand!
