So, my reading of this is not that you won't be able to buy online but that it just won't be at the same discounts as before so geogrpahically challenged players like MaxGravity will be able to buy online, it will just be closer to the cost of buying at an LGS. I get that there are logistics costs involved and am not saying that this won't impact someone, but it's not like you will ONLY be able get them at a LGS.

What impact do you expect this change in policies to have on the online marketplace for products from the Asmodee companies?

We believe that online sales is a viable and important marketplace, and that some consumers either prefer to buy their games online, or do not have access to a high-quality brick-and-mortar gaming retail store. As a publisher, we obviously still want to serve those consumers. We expect to authorize a number of excellent online specialty dealers, and would expect our products to be easily found online.

It is reasonable to assume that product will still be discounted online; this makes sense as that channel has a number of disadvantages (such as product receipt delay, shipping expenses, etc.). However, given the fact that our trade discounts to the online channel have been aligned with the services they provide, it is likely that online discounts will not be as disproportional as they have been in the past relative to pricing (which includes the volume or loyalty discounts) offered by many brick-and-mortar retailers.

Yeah this is what we talked about last week'ish when I called FFG up. To be honest I am not mad at all about these changes, it makes sense and it is fine.

I do think it is a silly thing as a whole, but dat ain't gonna stop me from loving on my STAR WARS Spaceships!

I just don't get some reasoning, the whole 'I have a right to a discount' is alien to me. Reeks of entitlement.

It is called capitalism. You must compete for my patronage.

But, but, think of the FLGS! They are entitled to your wallet even though they provide you with no useful service!

I appreciate my FLGSs. A lot.

They recently ordered demo tables and gave out free cards, routinely organize epic games, host tournaments with minimal registration fees, and let me and my friends hang out for hours without charging a dollar.

I love purchasing stuff at a discount too - but this new policy is most likely a response to requests from struggling brick and mortar stores rather than some price-gouging tactic.

Again, from the article:

"In summary, for sound and fair reasons, we want to grant additional discounts to the brick-and-mortar specialty retailer for the unique work they provide, while not granting those discounts to the online specialty retailer given the fact they are not providing the same services or making the same investment."

Assuming it's true, I find that hard to argue against.

Based on the wave 8 pricing we are seeing from MM, the online stores expect to pay a higher wholesale price. The problem is, that gap of going from a 35% discount to 25% is still not enough for the LGS to compete. The LGS may steal some sales now because they are more competitive, but I don't think it will move the needle that much.If FFG really wants to save the LGS or help them, they absolutely can give them a competitive advantage. For example B & M stores could be allowed to sell new waves a full week before on-line retailers. I'm really excited for the Ghost, I'd pay MSRP to get it a week early at an LGS. Yet, FFG isn't doing anything like this that would truly allow the LGS to compete. So no matter how they spin it, they really are just making more money on the on-line sales. I'm cool with that, but I think they should treat us like adults and be up front about it. Others may see it differently.

This is the situation in a nutshell!

And we can life with dats... we are grown ass men and we have a little bit of $$$ for the fun-stuff.

Just means I won't buy ten plus small ships and two large ships, and a huge ship all in the same month... and now that I have a good collection I don't need to do that anymores anyhows.

Just read this interesting post on Dakka Dakka written by a FLGS owner: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/673974.page#8335689

I want to point out what I wrote is addressing a very specific problem in the game trade. That problem is other game stores over ordering product because of perverse game industry incentives and then using the Internet as their exhaust pipe, blowing out what they can't sell. Because game stores are doing very well right now, the number of stores has grown tremendously and therefore the number of stores exhausting product onto the Internet has also increased. This has created a devaluation of board games during a boom time, with it not uncommon to see games sold online at around cost.

We sell over 20,000 board games a year and we can palpably feel the effect of this dumping. As a small business, we're not looking for protection. In fact, the usual response to this is to pivot quickly away. That means dropping product lines, like. It might mean moving to other businesses. It's a personal choice.

The publishers know this is happening and know we're talking about the pivot. Asmodee has decided that it's to their benefit to address this problem, even though they make the same amount of money whether it's sold in my store at MSRP or sold online at 40% off. They acknowledge that the FLGS has value in promoting the brand beyond the potential sales loss of huge volumes of online sales.

This allows us to promote their games through events and tournaments, a win-win. I am not claiming online sales are killing game stores. I *am* claiming game stores are killing game stores when they hit this critical dump mass. The FLGS is the worst enemy of the FLGS.

Makes a lot of sense when looking at it this way. It's more to stop the resellers than anything.

Here's some more clarification on what he was talking about: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/673974.page#8335773

For example, they order 50 copies of a game. They order more than they need because their distributor discount is based on volume and there's no risk. They sell 40 copies in their store at MSRP and 10 copies online at 40% off to get their money back, probably as an Amazon seller. Amazon's algorithms responds by selling at 41% off. Everyone erroneously blames/credits Amazon. When enough stores do this, the next game only sells 30 copies in store. Suddenly they have 20 copies they have to dump online. When store owners identify this value spiral, they eventually store owners stop ordering that game as it inexplicably stops selling. Again, a problem for game store owners, caused by game tore owners.

Yeah, a large point of the original announcement seemed to be about hitting brick and mortar's ebay and amazon stores.

Well I have actually gamed more are Cool Stuff Inc. (CSI) than at the store I bought most of my X-Wing stuff. I like supporting the LGS but I too have moved around a bit. CSI had more in stock and the LGS more than once sold out before I could get my stuff. Armada I bought exclusivly from Miniatures Market (MM). But all of it, even from the LGS, was at a discount. Like I said I don't really know if I would have purchased as much, knowing me probably not but who knows.

I stopped buying Imperial Assault at Wave 1; I don't intend on getting anything past Wave 2 for Armada. So maybe I'm a bad example because I'm not fond of ever expanding games anyway. Looking at the crowd I'd say I'm not typical in that respect.

But I've have said and considered more than one of a stopping point in X-Wing. One where I have enough variety and not too much depth/complication and most thing are "reasonably" balanced. Maybe I'm getting closer. I didn't intend in getting Wave 7 but I liked some of the cards. Wave 8 is better than Wave 7 but doesn't set me on fire.

But then here comes the Defender Veterans pack and:

Fine, prices go up, but stores will still close. I'm glad for the moral minority and those shop owners that will get to keep a few extra coppers in their chest. Here's the stand I'll take: if they stop putting small ship fixes in epic boxes I'll happily eat the additional cost of X-Wing ownership. I felt dirty buying the Raider and Gozanti (which both remain in their box, cards removed), but there was some small salve in getting them online at discount price. I am perfectly happy with fixing ships via new ships, or Aces packs, but the epic bait has to end.

"Buy the cards online", you say. There is marginal difference buying the cards away from the ship; a quick search of Ebay I see X1+ATC sets selling for 15USD--that will only go up. Perhaps if you need one of something paying 15-20 bucks on the aftermarket will be OK, but if you need more you're paying for the ship without getting the plastic (perhaps storage is an issue!).

Seriously if they are just in a box I wouldn't mind getting the Gozanti or Raider, especially the Gozanti just to set on my shelf. No cards necessary.

I just don't get some reasoning, the whole 'I have a right to a discount' is alien to me. Reeks of entitlement.

It is called capitalism. You must compete for my patronage.

But, but, think of the FLGS! They are entitled to your wallet even though they provide you with no useful service!

An LGS that provides no useful services is not an FLGS, there's a difference. An FLGS provides table-space, tournaments, leagues, products, a friendly community, scenery, jobs, and a general positive atmosphere to play in. For that alone, its should be worth the cost of purchasing there. IMO, FFG, and all tabletop companies, should find a way to reduce the cost of sales to brick-and-mortar game stores so that they can also reduce their prices. A game store can never afford to offer the 30-40% discounts you can find online, but if FFG compensated them so they could at least offer 10-20% without taking a huge hit, it'd help greatly.

Paying a little more (up to MSRP) isn't a concern to me. Yes, it may slow my purchases, but that's simple math. If current MM prices allow me to get three ships for the MSRP of two, that means that my collection is likely to grow faster. My concern is more closely rooted in the Asmodee choices of online retailers, which we currently don't know the identities of. I've received very responsive service when I've had to contact Miniature Market in the past, while my response from GW in the past was far from satisfactory. As there are no local stores, I am understandably concerned that I may receive lesser service going forward if MM gets cut out of the running. With reduced competition, online only retailers may find that there is no need nor pressure to out-perform others, as our options become limited.

I'm not saying the sky is falling on us rural, no-FLGS-to-speak-of gamers. Time will tell, particularly as we move past April 1 and see what happens with the market. In any case, I'm sure we'll all survive. (For my part, I'm glad wave 8 precedes the change, as I want and have pre-ordered Ghost and the Inquisitor. Besides those two and the TFA stuff, there hasn't really been much in the last several waves I've been interested in.)

This whole policy and the fact that it is being sold to us in the guise of "helping specialty retailers" is just insulting. From the interview, it's obviously that what is happening is that physical stores will continue to buy ANA products at the same wholesale prices they do today (or who knows, maybe even a little more) while the few "authorized online retailers" will be forced to buy their products at an increased wholesale cost (which looking at some of the online retailers appears to be about 10% more than they paid before). So there is no additional incentive to an FLGS to make their store "better" as they still won't have the power to compete on price which is the #1 consideration a consumer takes into account when buying a product (especially when you have to buy multiples of a product like in the case of a miniatures game such as X-Wing).

This new policy completely shafts over scenario/epic players like myself who have zero interesting in the competitive/tournament scene. People like me want to collect every possible ship so that we can construct more complex scenarios and just have fun. Being able to buy X-Wing ships at up to 30% off MSRP is what has enabled us to do this so that we can amass the large collections of miniatures that are needed to do this. Now that we are having to pay more for each product, we will probably buy less, if any at all, going forward. Some of us might just be content to keep what we have and not purchase any future X-Wing products.

The thing is, X-Wing (and especially Armada) is already sold at a premium (some would save over-valued) price. The discounts brought the prices down into a more reasonable figure that was acceptable for those of us who wanted to buy lots of product.

I am just reminded again of the similar scheme that Games Workshop implemented in the early 2000's. Many FLGS's had to close up because they could no longer supplement their in-store sales with online sales and the entire Warhammer community suffered. I just don't want to see history repeat itself....

Well, if the USAians will stop buying, that means more and quicker availability in the rest of the world. We have been used to not getting ridiculous discounts anyway. And been getting shafted in the supply because the USAians were buying stuff in bulk for half the price.

Glad to hear those days are over.

An LGS that provides no useful services is not an FLGS, there's a difference.

And here I thought the difference was the attitude of the staff...

And here I thought the difference was the attitude of the staff...

Depends on if the F stands for Friendly or Favorite. But even a friendly store that offers nothing extra isn't a place I'd bother with.

Well, if the USAians will stop buying, that means more and quicker availability in the rest of the world. We have been used to not getting ridiculous discounts anyway. And been getting shafted in the supply because the USAians were buying stuff in bulk for half the price.

Glad to hear those days are over.

That is certainly one way to look at it. And I have felt sorry for those who reside outside North America when it comes to FFG product. Although, I thought the merger with Asmodee was supposed to take care of that? Oh, yeah....

Ugh. These threads are like watching neanderthals discussing astronomy.

Online prices have been artificially low and now they're going back up to WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. Sorry-not-sorry that you're hurt by being forced to pay MSRP. Find a new hobby perhaps? Something cheaper?

Online prices here are MSRP abouts (can be a bit higher since dollars tend to be straight converted into euros even though euros are worth more). My local game store charges 130 euros for Star Wars Armada the starter box (~140 dollars), and I'm not wanting to pay an almost 50% mark up compared to buying online especially when it's a mark up like that on MSRP.

Like I want to support my local store but paying such higher prices just isn't in my budget.

Well, if the USAians will stop buying, that means more and quicker availability in the rest of the world. We have been used to not getting ridiculous discounts anyway. And been getting shafted in the supply because the USAians were buying stuff in bulk for half the price.

Glad to hear those days are over.

Just so I'm clear here.... you're happy that negative things impact other people because there's a perceived benefit to you?

Well, if the USAians will stop buying, that means more and quicker availability in the rest of the world. We have been used to not getting ridiculous discounts anyway. And been getting shafted in the supply because the USAians were buying stuff in bulk for half the price.

Glad to hear those days are over.

That is certainly one way to look at it. And I have felt sorry for those who reside outside North America when it comes to FFG product. Although, I thought the merger with Asmodee was supposed to take care of that? Oh, yeah....

I thought distribution was a key selling point as well. Which, it probably still is. It will be interesting to watch over the next few quarters.

They are entitled to your wallet even though they provide you with no useful service!

If yours doesn't, then the F is not correct. Mine however does offer a number of useful services so I don't mind paying more, because those are services that CSI or Miniature Market can't provide.

CSI is my FLGS. They have weekly play with more than 10 people every time and tournaments that fill the store. They offer prizes to everyone who played and the employees are helpful and friendly. It's a great environment.

Well, if the USAians will stop buying, that means more and quicker availability in the rest of the world. We have been used to not getting ridiculous discounts anyway. And been getting shafted in the supply because the USAians were buying stuff in bulk for half the price.

Glad to hear those days are over.

Some Euros have been complaining about unfair pricing for years. I've been to Europe probably around 75 times or more and I am very glad my Irish ancestors left Europe. For them it was not a pleasant experience being starved to death if they stayed. But I'm not going to complain how good I have it here. I'll just buy less.

An LGS that provides no useful services is not an FLGS, there's a difference.

And here I thought the difference was the attitude of the staff...

Attitude of the staff is a part of service.

Yes, I think there could be better ways for FFG to give a LGS an advantage. The question is, is there a better way to do that, and increase FFG's profits?

I don't think there is, no. Again, I'm not opposed to what ANA/FFG is doing, and if FFG portrayed their position as "We are making this change to secure our profitability with the added/needed benefit of making LGS more competitive with online retailers." I'm cool with it. It's the whole "We're doing this for the LGS! And the children, don't forget the children!" that I take exception to. Hope that makes sense.

Who is saying "We're doing this for the LGS! And the children, don't forget the children!"? It sounds like FFG's position is that they say it's in their interest that LGSs do well. Now, maybe they're lying; maybe they're mistaken - I don't know, but they're making a self-interested case, not an altruistic one.

I just don't get some reasoning, the whole 'I have a right to a discount' is alien to me. Reeks of entitlement.

Oh tsk tsk, sir. Pulling the "entitlement" wild card so soon? Why we've yet to even reach page 10!

I've not seen anyone say they have a 'right to a discount'. You read the caricature arguments of the caricature people you envision, and not what is actually said.

You know who also supported FLGSs? Hitler!

I think that by now everyone has acknowledged that they don't have insider trading information or access to FFG's market research. We're all just theorizing. People saying that online buyers are the huge majority or the tiny minority seem like they're all full of it. I'd love to see some numbers, but until someone provides some, let's not assert facts, shall we?

lols. Peterson is totally right and unlike him i don't have to be diplomatic in how to phrase it.

I watched people playing in a local game store tell folks who just bought and played with a starter set in the store that their next purchase should be online.

They were ready to throw down more money on product at that moment and the obvious prevailing wisdom was to buy online after being introduced to the product at a store.

I can't blame anyone for doing what makes the most "cents" I also occasionally enjoy an online discount.

But in that situation I would blame fantasy flight because they were not able to make the FLGS a competitive option.

They are now resolving the problem. so good for them.

I don't want to hear sob stories, these things need to change. be glad you had the discount while you could get it. accept this as another reality of where and how you live your life and move on.

As a Norwegian it seems like this does not affect me. But I see the point. We hold tournaments in a local store that sells FFG products. But we buy tops 20% of our ships in that Store. Because of avalabilety and prices compared to the internet.
The local store deserves more money. Had it not been for the tournaments and gameroom there I would not use any money there.

Also check out this math.

If FFG is paying a percentage royalty wholesale price to disney for the star wars license they are getting effed by online retailers.

let's say retail price of an FFG product is planed to be $100

FFG sells that to distributors for $50 Retailer buys it for $60 and hopefully sells it for $100

FFG pays disney a $5 royalty for a 10%* the wholesale cost.

If an online retailer discounts the product to $70 FFG should have only paid a royalty for a $70 product but instead paid royalty for a $100 product.

(*made up number)

It messes up the business model.

They are now resolving the problem. so good for them.

I don't want to hear sob stories, these things need to change. be glad you had the discount while you could get it. accept this as another reality of where and how you live your life and move on.

The thing is, what problem are they actually solving beyond trying to raise their bottom line? I see nothing in this new policy that is directly helping FLGSs. If the online pre-order prices for FFG products coming out in 2016 are any indication, buying online will still give consumers a 25% discount over MSRP (down from about 35%). Meanwhile, FLGS's will still be selling their products at or above MSRP, as most currently do. So there is still not an over-riding incentive (mainly Price) for costumers to frequent a FLGS over an OLGS.

So again, this new policy has nothing to do with bolstering FLGS sales and everything to do with increasing ANA's profit margins by increasing the wholesale price of products sold to online retailers. And I have a feeling that this time next year we are going to be back here again complaining because ANA raised the prices on all their products across the board.

ANA want's to be the Hasbro of the hobby game world. They want to have their products sold at Target and Walmart but be able to continue to sell them at high-end, niche market prices. They don't really care about the "specialty game retailer" and are just using them as a smokescreen to cover up a price increase. Because how do you think the purchasing managers at Target and Walmart are going to feel knowing that online retailers typically sell their products at a discount?