The idea is to stabilize prices, people. A price-war (which is what online sales is) is a race to the bottom. If Shop A offers a 10% discount then in order to compete Shop B marks down 15%. Then Shop A marks down 20%. Then Shop B responds with a 25% markdown.

Before you know it these shops are selling product and they're only making enough money to pay a few warehouse employees $8.25/hour.

What happens to your FLGS during all this? They go out of business because they can't mark down 25%. They need to pay rent. They need to send their kids to school. They need to pay their employees enough to put gas in their car. They need to pay electricity to keep the lights on after 8PM so YOU CAN PLAY YOUR GAMES IN THEIR STORE.

Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to raise prices.

But we're not seeing an increase in MSRP. This is clearly aimed at reducing the discount online stores offer.

Fine.

"Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to reduce the discount to online stores, which results in an increased cost to many consumers."

In which case people will vote with their wallets.

which results in an increased cost to many consumers.

Sure, but how big of % is many actually? Based on what people in this thread have said, Canada and Europe don't see that same discount. So will their prices rise?

If 15% of the consumer base sees an increase in the price, but still pays less than MSRP, and that means the LGS becomes stronger, which in turn makes the hobby itself stronger. Sure it sucks for that 15% but at least some of them may find that the improvement to the hobby as a whole makes the increase worth it in the long run.

So for the vast majority of us this could turn out to be a good thing. Then again, maybe it will go over as well as new coke did... Thing is, none of us can see the future, but there are people out there who have the data to make an at least semi-educated guess about it. None of us posting here however are in that group as far as I know.

For everyone who stops playing X-Wing because they can't buy it for 50% off online there'll be two or three new players who pick the game up because of excellent local support.

And when non-existent support from LGSs that care not one whit for X-Wing combined with increased prices kills the community stone dead? We don't have people walking into our club wanting to play X-Wing due to our LGS but in spite of it. The group there are masters of discouraging people from picking up new games, they enjoy clubbing baby seals too much to support and encourage people. Our new players come from people seeing a Star Wars game on Amazon or their favourite on-line game store and picked it up because it was cheap. Supporting Bricks and Mortar stores sounds all very noble but they are a dead end. Support for clubs and games cafes is what is needed now.

The industry clearly disagrees with you, though.

Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to raise prices.

MSRP is not increasing. The major online stores are going to have their discount reduced. Which, in order to work at the same margin, means they are going to have to increase their prices. It is unrealistic to expect the ability to operate at the margins and volume of CSI and MM to be the "standard" of what all stores should sell at.

CSI and MM will still likely be cheaper than MSRP. But look at the prices for the Wave 8 ships. Are those prices really that horrible?

See my previous post if we want to be nitpicky about "raising prices" vs. "reducing discounts". I am aware that MSRP is not going up.

I feel it necessary to be clear again, that Asmodee can reduce discounts all they wish. It's their business. What I object to is them treating us like a bunch of dummies who can't see through the smoke and mirrors. Just reduce the discount. End of story. That is kind of the weird thing. For me at least, I'd just pay the prices if they went up. But treating me like a fool who would buy into their story actually makes me want to cut some purchases. Don't put on a bunch of PR and show to try to convince me I should like the taste of poo. It's still poo. (and all of this show is pretty suspicious when there are indications that indeed your FLGS is going to have their discount also reduced 3-5%, but that is yet to be seen).

The idea is to stabilize prices, people. A price-war (which is what online sales is) is a race to the bottom. If Shop A offers a 10% discount then in order to compete Shop B marks down 15%. Then Shop A marks down 20%. Then Shop B responds with a 25% markdown.

Before you know it these shops are selling product and they're only making enough money to pay a few warehouse employees $8.25/hour.

What happens to your FLGS during all this? They go out of business because they can't mark down 25%. They need to pay rent. They need to send their kids to school. They need to pay their employees enough to put gas in their car. They need to pay electricity to keep the lights on after 8PM so YOU CAN PLAY YOUR GAMES IN THEIR STORE.

If all you can do is compete on price, than you have other problems that need fixing. If all a store can offer is, "You can play games here". then it has other problems that need fixing.

If you create a good atmosphere, people will go. Sure, some people would still buy cheaper if possible, but those people aren't your customers and never will be. Every time I hear about how we need to help the game stores, I want to scream. The game stores need to help themselves. If a store created an environment that I like to be in, I would GLADLY purchase from them. Most stores though are run by the comic book guy from the Simpsons and I think those deserve to fail. I won't support a store (and think it's foolish to do so) unless they give me a good reason to do it. Having a place to play is not that, as that is something that can EASILY be overcome.

As a UK customer I've very rarely found discounts greater than 20% so I don't really care. US based customers of most products get things much cheaper than we do.

Same in Canada. Seems like once you step outside the US prices and wages both go up, though. I found a map showing the minimum wage in every mainland state and province and their highest was about the same as our lowest. I'm curious as to how many jobs in the States pay above minimum*, and what the difference in price becomes if you factor in wages.

*Specifically, how many jobs pay minimum up here but above minimum in the States.

I live in Kansas. We are a very conservative state with a small population, one of the reddest of the red. Our numbers go like this.

Minimum Wage: $7.25.

Yearly Income at Minimum Wage: $15,080

Kansas Per Capita Income: $27,870

Kansas Median Houshold income: $52,031

U.S. Numbers

U.S. Per Capita Income: $28,889

U.S. Median Houshold income: $53,657

These numbers are from 2014.

Doesn't exactly answer your question, but gives you some numbers to chew on.

And when non-existent support from LGSs that care not one whit for X-Wing combined with increased prices kills the community stone dead?

There's really no reason to bring up bad LGS' in this discussion. They're a problem regardless and if anything in theory this change could make it even easier for them get replaced. If the LGS gets stronger due to this, that means they become more profitable, which in turn makes easier for a good one to open and replace the bad one.

It's still ****.

That is again an assumption and not one actually supported by any facts. This could in fact be the best thing that could happen to X-Wing as a whole. The fact that you refuse to even accept the possibility of that really does your argument a lot of harm.

The idea is to stabilize prices, people. A price-war (which is what online sales is) is a race to the bottom. If Shop A offers a 10% discount then in order to compete Shop B marks down 15%. Then Shop A marks down 20%. Then Shop B responds with a 25% markdown.

Before you know it these shops are selling product and they're only making enough money to pay a few warehouse employees $8.25/hour.

What happens to your FLGS during all this? They go out of business because they can't mark down 25%. They need to pay rent. They need to send their kids to school. They need to pay their employees enough to put gas in their car. They need to pay electricity to keep the lights on after 8PM so YOU CAN PLAY YOUR GAMES IN THEIR STORE.

If all you can do is compete on price, than you have other problems that need fixing. If all a store can offer is, "You can play games here". then it has other problems that need fixing.

If you create a good atmosphere, people will go. Sure, some people would still buy cheaper if possible, but those people aren't your customers and never will be. Every time I hear about how we need to help the game stores, I want to scream. The game stores need to help themselves. If a store created an environment that I like to be in, I would GLADLY purchase from them. Most stores though are run by the comic book guy from the Simpsons and I think those deserve to fail. I won't support a store (and think it's foolish to do so) unless they give me a good reason to do it. Having a place to play is not that, as that is something that can EASILY be overcome.

And just think how much better those great stores will be WHEN THEY CAN MAKE MORE MONEY.

Instead of giving your money to a warehouse that hires minimum wage workers you can give your money to a shop that knows your name and provides you with an excellent experience.

For everyone who stops playing X-Wing because they can't buy it for 50% off online there'll be two or three new players who pick the game up because of excellent local support.

And when non-existent support from LGSs that care not one whit for X-Wing combined with increased prices kills the community stone dead? We don't have people walking into our club wanting to play X-Wing due to our LGS but in spite of it. The group there are masters of discouraging people from picking up new games, they enjoy clubbing baby seals too much to support and encourage people. Our new players come from people seeing a Star Wars game on Amazon or their favourite on-line game store and picked it up because it was cheap. Supporting Bricks and Mortar stores sounds all very noble but they are a dead end. Support for clubs and games cafes is what is needed now.

There are no game cafes or clubs in my state.

So now what?

There is no one-size-fits-all solution but Asmodee/FFG can do what they can to support the majority of players out there.

I already see that our favorite on-line stores had increased the prices for wave 8 pre-order starships.

If a store created an environment that I like to be in, I would GLADLY purchase from them. Most stores though are run by the comic book guy from the Simpsons and I think those deserve to fail.

I'd agree. Bad LGS' do as much damage to the hobby as anything else, perhaps more in fact. LGS need to offer enough added value to make up for the increase in price. But at the same time, trying to add enough value to make up for a 33% discount can be beyond what many small shops can manage.

The idea is to stabilize prices, people. A price-war (which is what online sales is) is a race to the bottom. If Shop A offers a 10% discount then in order to compete Shop B marks down 15%. Then Shop A marks down 20%. Then Shop B responds with a 25% markdown.

Before you know it these shops are selling product and they're only making enough money to pay a few warehouse employees $8.25/hour.

What happens to your FLGS during all this? They go out of business because they can't mark down 25%. They need to pay rent. They need to send their kids to school. They need to pay their employees enough to put gas in their car. They need to pay electricity to keep the lights on after 8PM so YOU CAN PLAY YOUR GAMES IN THEIR STORE.

If all you can do is compete on price, than you have other problems that need fixing. If all a store can offer is, "You can play games here". then it has other problems that need fixing.

If you create a good atmosphere, people will go. Sure, some people would still buy cheaper if possible, but those people aren't your customers and never will be. Every time I hear about how we need to help the game stores, I want to scream. The game stores need to help themselves. If a store created an environment that I like to be in, I would GLADLY purchase from them. Most stores though are run by the comic book guy from the Simpsons and I think those deserve to fail. I won't support a store (and think it's foolish to do so) unless they give me a good reason to do it. Having a place to play is not that, as that is something that can EASILY be overcome.

And just think how much better those great stores will be WHEN THEY CAN MAKE MORE MONEY.

Instead of giving your money to a warehouse that hires minimum wage workers you can give your money to a shop that knows your name and provides you with an excellent experience.

I would argue that they won't really. Online shopping isn't going away. The people that only care about price will still buy online because it will still be cheaper. People generally find a FLGS through word of mouth. That isn't going to change. Honestly, this new policy isn't going to change anything relating to the amount of people that frequent a FLGS or what they buy.

I already see that our favorite on-line stores had increased the prices for wave 8 pre-order starships.

At Minimarket, it's now a 25% discount on the Ghost over MSRP... Frankly I have trouble feeling bad for anyone who finds a 25% discount to be too small.

Well they'll be making less money then as people vote with their wallets.

Yep.

Or... maybe the company isn't run by idiots and they've actually thought about this and decided getting new players into the games by having thriving FLGSs will be better for the health of the player ecosystem than online discounting was.

How nice for people that have a place to play, shafts those of us who don't have a flgs though.

They'll pay more for zero benefit so they will be feeling just a tad raw.

Because the online sellers won't be eating the difference the customer will.

It's still ****.

That is again an assumption and not one actually supported by any facts. This could in fact be the best thing that could happen to X-Wing as a whole. The fact that you refuse to even accept the possibility of that really does your argument a lot of harm.

It MIGHT be the best thing, but based on what I know and see, I think it most likely to not be the best thing. I assign it a pretty low probability based on the information and experience I have. That doesn't equate to me not acknowledging the possibility. Just because I don't caveat every statement with some confidence level or my perceived probability doesn't mean I am some kind of automaton who only sees 1s and 0s or black and white.

Well they'll be making less money then as people vote with their wallets.

Yep.

Or... maybe the company isn't run by idiots and they've actually thought about this and decided getting new players into the games by having thriving FLGSs will be better for the health of the player ecosystem than online discounting was.

How nice for people that have a place to play, shafts those of us who don't have a flgs though.

They'll pay more for zero benefit so they will be feeling just a tad raw.

Because the online sellers won't be eating the difference the customer will.

The ideal benefit is that the industry as a whole strengthens.

Just because I don't caveat every statement with some confidence level or my perceived probability doesn't mean I am some kind of automaton who only sees 1s and 0s or black and white.

No need to do it every time, but every post in this thread so far has been stated as an absolute. That this will do nothing to help the hobby but will only harm it.

So, from IVC2, here is the pertinent statement that probably blows up the whole "we're helping the FLGS" BS.

"A second major change affecting the channel is, instead of raising the price on the combined company's products, discounts on products across the line will drop to 45%, reducing the margin of gross profit anywhere from 3 to 5 %. Much as with WOTC's reduction in margin earlier this year, this reduction comes straight out of the gross margin of distributors and retailers. It remains to be seen what Asmodee NA does with the extra percentage."

That's right friends, it sure sounds like they mean 3 to 5% profit right off the top from distributors and retailers.

Ok why not this then?

online 40% off, FLGS 20% off

This makes more sense in my opinion. That way brick and mortar stores won't close like I keep reading. That would make it more competitive with online. not the other way around. Again I will just stop buying anything Asmodee.

Ok why not this then?

online 40% off, FLGS 20% off

This makes more sense in my opinion. That way brick and mortar stores won't close like I keep reading. That would make it more competitive with online. not the other way around. Again I will just stop buying anything Asmodee.

Why bother having MSRP if everyone discounts?

This is like telling your boss that while your salary is $40k/year you'll happily take $30k.

The price is the price.

online 40% off, FLGS 20% off

And how exactly are they supposed to start offering that kind of discount? The only way they could do that is to take a hit on their own profit. Plus increasing the discount online would do nothing but maintain the status quo.

Just because I don't caveat every statement with some confidence level or my perceived probability doesn't mean I am some kind of automaton who only sees 1s and 0s or black and white.

No need to do it every time, but every post in this thread so far has been stated as an absolute. That this will do nothing to help the hobby but will only harm it.

I don't think I've asserted at all that this will only harm the hobby. Local game stores may see some benefit.

What I have asserted, and I'll acknowledge that this is with little evidence other than the indication from ICv2 that retailer profits are taking a 3-5% hit, is that the reason Asmodee is doing this is for an immediate cash in, and not about how important they feel local game stores are.

(EDIT: And looking at my original post, I see statements like "it seems" and "what I see". Clearly, things that "seem" cannot be interpreted as absolutes, nor should my own personal expressions of what I see be interpreted as an expression of absolutes. So clearly your absolute statement about me stating everything is absolute is absolutely incorrect.)

Why bother having MSRP if everyone discounts?

This is like telling your boss that while your salary is $40k/year you'll happily take $30k.

The price is the price.

You sir, are a new car salesman's dream come true!!!

Does this remind anyone else of net neutrality?