To the end consumer it really doesn't matter what mechanism they use to accomplish this, only that their out of pocket expense is increasing.

That is only true for a subset of the consumer base. In this case, apparently only those who live in the US and order exclusively online.

For me, I won't see an increase in price.

Mockbuster thread.

I now return you all to your daily dose of internet rage and hyper speculation.

Cheers

Baaa

Could be worse anyway. They could have said they'll release prequel ships, in which case apparently half of you will all stop playing completely...

Are you really telling me, if all the gaming stores dried up, that this game would still be as big as it once was? Having a location that is pretty much already set up for gaming makes it easier for gaming to happen.

I agree to a point, but to play devil's advocate, perhaps there's a more effective way to have a place to play other than the current LGS paradigm. In Europe for example there's gaming clubs, and even pubs that have table space for games.

I don't want to see my LGS close, the next nearest one is an hour away. But if there was a way to get a 20-30% discount over MSRP and have a place to play, even if cost me $5 a night or something perhaps that would be better.

Or perhaps the LGS method is actually better for the US anyway, and this will help make them stronger which will in turn make our hobby better.

Just to clarify, they are not RAISING prices, they are REDUCING discount. This is a big difference.

If you reduce the discount, it raises the price. There is not a big difference.

This is great news for brick and mortar LGSs that really do deserve our business even if their prices are higher than online suppliers.

They're the ones that run tournaments, that supply us tables for casual games.

I'll miss cheaper prices, but this is probably better for the game in the long run.

This absolutely sucks for players without access to a LGS though.

There is not a big difference.

There is if you didn't get that discount in the first place.

Realistically this is the change.

Before: online 40% off, FLGS 10% off

After: online 20% off, FLGS 10% off

Does it suck personally for you if you only ever buy online? Yes. Is it a good change for the long term heath of the game? Yes.

That's the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum.

Why is that a good change for the long term health of the game? What real evidence are you basing that on?

Then you can't have been around for very long.

I'm not certain why you think it is dumb.

I think Peterson is absolutely correct, and Asmodee NA is making a very sound decision. Yes, it will suck for those people buying only online (and not playing at FLGSs) - but it can help the FLGSs, because it can help them compete against the online retailers, who have had to suffer what is essentially an unfair disadvantage while did more to grow the hobby as a whole.

I see this baseless assertion all the time. That LGSs grow the market in any kind of significant manner. There is no proof of this. It seems more to me that the internet, more than anything, has pushed the hobby gaming market into incredible growth in the last 10-15 years and that rising tide has lifted the FLGS boat - not the other way around. There are orders of magnitude more game companies and more games released now than there were even 10 years ago. Do we seriously believe that FLGSs that have existed for decades just suddenly kicked it into gear in the last decade? Of course not. Exposure on the Facebook, on Boardgamegeek, on YouTube, in movies and on TV - there is where the growth comes from. The ability to find these games for sale online, to learn the rules from videos, to see others having fun experiencing them without leaving your couch - there is where the growth comes from. Your LGS isn't even a blip. And for every LGS that actually creates customers, there are 5 with poor lighting, unfriendly employees, a Magic-centric vibe, and dirty play space to scare them away.

And inevitably what I see when new people start buying games (or they buy games as gifts) is that they are SHOCKED by the sticker prices and only slightly less shocked by the online prices. People have spent their whole lives paying $12 for a copy of Monopoly at Wal-Mart.

The other thing I've seen is more and more game stores and game cafés opening than ever before - and by a huge margin. Because the internet created the market, the exposure, and the interest - not the game store down the street. I would wager that 90% of the people in a town with an FLGS don't even know it exists, and 99.9% of them have never set a foot inside.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - If Asmodee wants to raise prices, that's fine. It is a game and it is their product to sell as they wish. But don't think you are tricking me into believing it is about evening the playing field and helping brick and mortar stores who are "so important" to the hobby. They're not. They aren't growing the market - they are the recipients of the benefit of a market exploding around them.

QFT. These are my thoughts on the matter as well, only much more nicely written then I would have done.

Double QFT. I know my brother got into the game, and then got me into the game because he saw a youtube video on it. Not because he walked into a FLGS which knew exactly what was going to get him to buy.

My thought process is this- Are people going to still want to play this game competitively, whether or not there are FLGS? Yes. Are FLGS necessary to the growth of the game? I would say no, but I know this can be hotly debated.

Which brings us to this.

Perhaps there's a more effective way to have a place to play other than the current LGS paradigm.

The adage of "adapt or die" is far too true when it comes to consumerism. This change seems to only be holding back the inevitable, and at the cost of some customers for FFG if online prices really do rise. The way I see it, players are going to find a place to play, even if FLGS dry up because they can't move product. But those FLGS which adapt, and, say, sell their product at lower costs and make up the costs by extending a fee to use their tables and space, or whatever is necessary to be competitive, will be the ones that survive and evolve the way we know tabletop gaming.

I appreciate having a brick and mortar store nearby that carries all my gaming needs. You know, for those spur of the moment needs. So,if this truly does end up helping them, I'm for it.

I'm going up to my FLGS tonight to play Imperial Assault. I'll pick up either of the two new resistance ships if they have any left. The Christmas rush cleaned out a lot of their stock. And I'll pay MSRP for whatever I get.

But if there was a way to get a 20-30% discount over MSRP and have a place to play, even if cost me $5 a night or something perhaps that would be better.

This is what a lot of us already have till the reduction in discounts hits. Anyone near MSI or Team Covenant has there discount and a place to play with no online ordering and those are just the 2 i know of for sure.

This is great news for brick and mortar LGSs that really do deserve our business even if their prices are higher than online suppliers.

They're the ones that run tournaments, that supply us tables for casual games.

Again people who buy from there LGS in the USA are going to get hit with these new prices as well. So i don't understand how its going to make it better for the stores selling online prices in store that are always packed.

There is not a big difference.

There is if you didn't get that discount in the first place.

That isn't a reality we live in, however.

It seems more to me that the internet, more than anything, has pushed the hobby gaming market into incredible growth in the last 10-15 years and that rising tide has lifted the FLGS boat - not the other way around.

I'm not saying I completely disagree with you. But you have no more proof to back up your claim then does the people who say the LGS is the lifeblood of the miniature gaming market.

Fair enough. Let's say my goal was to cast reasonable doubt on the assertion that FLGSs are critical to the growth of the hobby. It is always stated as if it is uncontestable truth.

The industry clearly disagrees with you, though.

Could be worse anyway. They could have said they'll release prequel ships, in which case apparently half of you will all stop playing completely...

Honestly, prequel ships would kill this game for me. Fortunately, it seems that everyone, including FFG and Disney, are pretending they never happened.

Again people who buy from there LGS in the USA are going to get hit with these new prices as well.

Again... No they're not. Most stores will not see an increase in the prices.

That isn't a reality we live in, however.

Yes it actually is. I pay MSRP now and I will continue to pay MSRP. So for me the change has no effect.

I think about half my collection was MSRP.

Let's say my goal was to cast reasonable doubt on the assertion that FLGSs are critical to the growth of the hobby.

I believe they are in fact critical to the growth of the hobby, but that doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement, or that social media doesn't help them. But in this case it's quite possible that social media did little more than provide a boost to something that already existed.

I'm part of the Twin Cities X-Wing group, and Armada group and other facebook groups. But being part of those groups doesn't actually give me a place to play, just a way to arrange a time to play.

Without the LGS' or some other public place the facebook group may of accomplished nothing, since most people are going to be hesitant to let strangers in their home. Information without infrastructure is quite often fairly useless.

I think about half my collection was MSRP.

I'm in the same boat, I bought a lot online. But that was before I got serious about competitive play and started a league and attending tournaments. Now everything I buy is from my LGS.

Sure I could get it for less, and the owner has said he gets that it's hard to turn down that discount, but without his store I'd be playing with 1 or 2 friends a couple times a month at most. To me that makes the increase in price worth it.

Honestly, prequel ships would kill this game for me. Fortunately, it seems that everyone, including FFG and Disney, are pretending they never happened.

Tell that to my Nexu in Imperial Assault, Leia in her N1 in a that recent comic, all the prequel stuff in the RPGs, etc

The industry clearly disagrees with you, though.

Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to raise prices.

Again people who buy from there LGS in the USA are going to get hit with these new prices as well.

Again... No they're not. Most stores will not see an increase in the prices.

You say right in your post most stores will not see an increase in the prices. So you're saying if MM, CSI, and Amazon are the targets of this then there locals stores will still be selling the same prices that there selling in store and online now? So once the price goes to MSRP online for CSI that the price when I go to there brick and mortar will still be the online discount and they just cant sell it online for that price? There is a lot of "don't worry your store wont increase". But the online stores are real brick and mortar store that host tournaments and sell the products for the same price as they do online, and that means that those are a lot of our LGS not just some website.

Well they'll be making less money then as people vote with their wallets.

This is why I'm actually not terribly suspicious of this move- CSI and MM have made a lot of cash for FFG. However they react to the change, they won't be selling as much. Asmodee is probably going to lose revenue due to this change, at least in the short term (Whether or not that loss is statisiticly significant, I can't say, though). Asmodee is certainly aware of this. So this doesn't seem to be a profit maximization thing to me.

Amazingly short sighted people said the exact same thing to people unhappy about gw prices look where they are now.

GW increased the retail price of their stuff and continues to do so. That's a completely different thing than what is happening here.

GW also was trying to develop a monopoly on sales of their own product through their own stores. Apart from HQ, does FFG have any "official stores?"

You're absolutely correct, this has nothing to do with Asmodee/FFG's profits as their revenue will dip in the coming months. Defense of brick and mortar shops reducing online discounting helps to stabilize demand in the market and will pay off in long term sales and brand value. For everyone who stops playing X-Wing because they can't buy it for 50% off online there'll be two or three new players who pick the game up because of excellent local support.

Great example of this: one of the brands my company manufacturers cut sales to REI and through online channels. We lost $3,000,000 in sales in the remaining three months of the year. Two years down the line the brand is up $12,000,000 and we have better representation in brick and mortar stores than ever before.

As a publisher Asmodee/FFG wants their products in shops that have people with passion for their games. They want to see their product plastered across the shelves with weekly play nights and strong event support. Online discounters cannot do this.

Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to raise prices.

But we're not seeing an increase in MSRP. This is clearly aimed at reducing the discount online stores offer.

But the online stores are real brick and mortar store that host tournaments and sell the products for the same price as they do online, and that means that those are a lot of our LGS not just some website.

Hence the word 'most' as in not 100%. Sure for CSI and MM that have real stores they'll likely see an increase in price. Which for those who shop there will be a pain in the wallet. But that is also a fairly small % of the overall consumer base. So for most people, who buy at the LGS, they will not see an increase. Also apparently those people who buy online that don't live in the US, will also not see much if any increase.

The industry clearly disagrees with you, though.

Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to raise prices.

MSRP is not increasing. The major online stores are going to have their discount reduced. Which, in order to work at the same margin, means they are going to have to increase their prices. It is unrealistic to expect the ability to operate at the margins and volume of CSI and MM to be the "standard" of what all stores should sell at.

CSI and MM will still likely be cheaper than MSRP. But look at the prices for the Wave 8 ships. Are those prices really that horrible?

Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to raise prices.

But we're not seeing an increase in MSRP. This is clearly aimed at reducing the discount online stores offer.

Fine.

"Or the industry uses it as a convenient excuse to reduce the discount to online stores, which results in an increased cost to many consumers."