Maybe one of the reasons that so many of the anti-FLGS crowd doesn't like FLGSs is because they don't know what a real one looks like (compared to a dingy comic-books store filled with non-bathing teenagers - DCBSFWNBT). Also, the adapt-or-die people seem to not see that FLGSs are adapting and thriving.

Back to the No True Scotsman fallacy then?

Regardless of how the LGS or Death! crowd want to spin it a poor LGS is still an LGS. It's not a comic shop (we have one of those and it's a considerably more pleasant space to spend time in than our LGS) or a Magic Shop or anything else you might want to paint it as.

This is not a 'No true Scotsman' argument. It's the recognition that there are many different qualities of stores that sell games. When I say FLGS, I mean the subset of local gaming stores that are of excellent quality, have people who will run OP events, provide a wholesome environment, and bring new people to the game (and thus provide value to FFG).

The fact that there are LGSs that are adapting is great, and also proves our point.

It proves what point? That FFS doesn't have an interest in supporting stores that they feel provides marketing value for their product compared to those that leech off the marketing value provided by the FLGSs?

Maybe one of the reasons that so many of the anti-FLGS crowd doesn't like FLGSs is because they don't know what a real one looks like (compared to a dingy comic-books store filled with non-bathing teenagers - DCBSFWNBT). Also, the adapt-or-die people seem to not see that FLGSs are adapting and thriving.

How good an FLGS can be doesn't really matter if you don't have access to a good one nearby. Expecting people to support an FLGS just cause it is one isn't really reasonable. I do agree that support for game stores is important, but those game stores actually have to be community centers then and put effort into building out a community. My local game store does community events but also charges 30%-40% above MSRP on a lot of things, so that still makes it hard to convince myself that I should spend money there, especially since I don't game in the store itself. (I'm actually a big proponent of just a small fee to rent a table or entry for game nights, that feels a lot fairer.)

This argument is not about whom you must support; it's about whom FFG has decided to support by slightly leveling the playing field in the favor of those retailers who can't sell in bulk by slightly upping the price on a few of those who can.

It's interesting how such a slight policy change creates such a hue and cry.

Many if the people who are upset at this because they don't have an FLGS in their environs don't seem to take into account that there may be a reason for that. Maybe if games manufacturers generally helped stacked the deck in favor of FLGSs, then more would appear - even in their neighborhoods.

This is not a 'No true Scotsman' argument. It's the recognition that there are many different qualities of stores that sell games. When I say FLGS, I mean the subset of local gaming stores that are of excellent quality, have people who will run OP events, provide a wholesome environment, and bring new people to the game (and thus provide value to FFG).

It certainly looks like one to me, even with the additional explanation. A bricks and mortar store that sells games and gaming supplies is just that regardless of if you call it a 'F'LGS or DCBSFWNBT.

It proves what point? That FFS doesn't have an interest in supporting stores that they feel provides marketing value for their product compared to those that leech off the marketing value provided by the FLGSs?

The point that the traditional bricks and mortar store is a dying model. Your local store is already evolving, Archaeopteryx to the traditional games store's Diplodocus. It is not the final form of the future of public gameing & retail spaces but a step on the path.

Many if the people who are upset at this because they don't have an FLGS in their environs don't seem to take into account that there may be a reason for that. Maybe if games manufacturers generally helped stacked the deck in favor of FLGSs, then more would appear - even in their neighborhoods.

If you are of the opinion that I am upset about the fact that my LGS is a good example of the worst of the breed you are mistaken. I'm perfectly happy with my local community. The clubs and my friends with whom I play at home (and their homes) give me ample gaming and chances to meet new people and introduce them to new games (and for them to introduce me to new games). All that and I can buy whatever I need from specialist on-line retailers or Amazon. We even get non-shop tornements with FFG prize support at least once a year at a local convention. This is what a post-LGS environment looks like, and trust me, it's a great.

I'm a true Scotsman.

I play the pipes, eat haggis and drink whisky.

I also wear a kilt when appropriate.

Cheers

Baaa

No caber toss?! YOU'RE NO TRUE SCOTSMAN!

Major Tom, do you consider Barnes and Nobles a flgs?

Major Tom, do you consider Barnes and Nobles a flgs?

No idea, I don't think we have them in the UK.

Major Tom, do you consider Barnes and Nobles a flgs?

No idea, I don't think we have them in the UK.

It's a national chain of book stores that had to adapt due to internet sales. They now offer expanded products to include movies, music, games, and have cafes inside for you to relax and read in. There's a chance they'd even let you play the game there since they sell it - I've never tried.

Sounds pretty good to me, especially they would let you play games in store. Hell, if they have the space and are able to stay open into the evening it sounds like a great place to host a club.

The difference of course being that gaming is a social hobby and is greatly benefited from having a good LGS in the area. Barnes and Noble offers me nothing as a reader of books beyond the purchase of the book itself and the slight convenience of impulse buying at their stores as opposed to shopping online.

Barnes and Noble is definitely not a LGS.

I can see how someone that does not have a decent LGS would not understand.

Imagine a bookstore with two or three counters with board games, and X wing on the end caps. They have a cafe, but I don't believe I've ever seen a table much wider than two and a half feet.

Major Tom, do you consider Barnes and Nobles a flgs?

No idea, I don't think we have them in the UK.

It's a national chain of book stores that had to adapt due to internet sales. They now offer expanded products to include movies, music, games, and have cafes inside for you to relax and read in. There's a chance they'd even let you play the game there since they sell it - I've never tried.

Adapt? I've had a B&N where I live for close to 20 years. Mine has always carried the stuff you mention. It has always had a cafe and I have seen people playing chess in it. We had 2 on the same street, but they built a larger building approximately half way between them and combined the 2 stores into one. They expanded the music and video section and added action figures to the games and puzzle section. What they actually did to adapt was include a large section in the middle of the store to promote their nook line, thus embracing ebooks..

FWIW, I have played board games at B&N a couple of times without any issues, but I have not played X-Wing there.

Sounds pretty good to me, especially they would let you play games in store. Hell, if they have the space and are able to stay open into the evening it sounds like a great place to host a club.

They really are pretty nice in my opinion. I find visiting them relaxing and comfortable. Ours closes at 10:30 pm Monday thru Saturday and 8:00 on Sunday I think.

My flgs has hosted our local board gaming club pretty much since it opened, although I think the U.K. gaming club and U.S. gaming club might have a few differences. Our club was very happy to move into the new game store when it opened. It was bigger, cleaner, and offered more opportunities to meet new gamers than the previous location.

I can see how someone that does not have a decent LGS would not understand.

Just because I now live somewhere without a decent LGS does not mean I've never lived anywhere that had one. We even had one here once, unfortunately the greed of one of the owners and GW opening a store in town killed it.

I've been playing RPGs, War Games and Board Games since 1980, I've seen the hobby evolve numerous times over those years and we are defiantly in an evolutionary phase right now. Where we end up will be facinating to discover, but trying to prop up the old model never works in these circumstances.

I'm still curious if you consider it a flgs though? Earlier you said any brick and mortar store that sells gaming stuff is a flgs. That breaking them into different categories is a no true Scotsman fallacy.

So I'm curious if a bookstore that has a few aisle of popular board games is a flgs?

I know my local Barnes and Noble is starting up a board game night once a month.

I'm kind of impressed FFG lets us have this discussion on their own forum, come to think of it. Plenty of companies wouldn't hesitate to delete threads, ban users or remove this whole section of the website in the face of any sort of criticism.

I know my local Barnes and Noble is starting up a board game night once a month.

I don't play 40k or I would see if they'd let me play some Armageddon there. I think six of the cafe tables would do the trick. Of course we'd need to bring in some boards to get a flat surface. And its half the cafes tables, but I'm sure if my friend and I get a small coffee each they won't mind.

I'm kind of impressed FFG lets us have this discussion on their own forum, come to think of it. Plenty of companies wouldn't hesitate to delete threads, ban users or remove this whole section of the website in the face of any sort of criticism.

That's because there is near zero moderation.

So I'm curious if a bookstore that has a few aisle of popular board games is a flgs?

It's certainly a local store where you can buy games, so yes. To flip your question on it's head, Traveling Man is a small chain of games & comic stores here in the UK. Does the fact that hey have multiple stores mean that they are not entitled to be considered a LGS?

I'm kind of impressed FFG lets us have this discussion on their own forum, come to think of it. Plenty of companies wouldn't hesitate to delete threads, ban users or remove this whole section of the website in the face of any sort of criticism.

I'm very impressed by it too.

I don't think I've ever heard the argument that being a chain prevents a flgs from being a flgs.

Do they a sell board games, card games, miniature games, modeling supplies, paints, and provide a space to play? Are local to you? Are they friendly?

I'm kind of impressed FFG lets us have this discussion on their own forum, come to think of it. Plenty of companies wouldn't hesitate to delete threads, ban users or remove this whole section of the website in the face of any sort of criticism.

That's because there is near zero moderation.

Yeah, there really isn't any moderation here. Also, censoring the discussion about their new policy of price discrimination certainly wouldn't earn them any goodwill.

I wonder how this will affect Europe. We buy from Estevium who from what I recall is part of their group anyway.

I'm kind of impressed FFG lets us have this discussion on their own forum, come to think of it. Plenty of companies wouldn't hesitate to delete threads, ban users or remove this whole section of the website in the face of any sort of criticism.

That's because there is near zero moderation.

Yeah, there really isn't any moderation here. Also, censoring the discussion about their new policy of price discrimination certainly wouldn't earn them any goodwill.

I don't see anything wrong with alienating a handful of tantrum throwers if it removes this 25 page eyesore from the main page. Would anyone else really care?

I'm kind of impressed FFG lets us have this discussion on their own forum, come to think of it. Plenty of companies wouldn't hesitate to delete threads, ban users or remove this whole section of the website in the face of any sort of criticism.

That's because there is near zero moderation.

Yeah, there really isn't any moderation here. Also, censoring the discussion about their new policy of price discrimination certainly wouldn't earn them any goodwill.

I don't see anything wrong with alienating a handful of tantrum throwers if it removes this 25 page eyesore from the main page. Would anyone else really care?

They are raising prices on their customers (us) and engaging in price discrimination against many of our favorite game stores. They are also being dishonest about their reasoning for these changes. I'm upset about it, and it appears that I'm not alone. Sure there are some unreasonable people in here, but what 25 page / 500 post thread doesn't?

I don't think I've ever heard the argument that being a chain prevents a flgs from being a flgs.

It's the flip-side of the implied argument that Barnes & Noble are too big to be a LGS. If that wasn't your intended argument then I'm sorry to have miss-read your intentions.

Do they a sell board games, card games, miniature games, modeling supplies, paints, and provide a space to play? Are local to you? Are they friendly?

I really have no idea what they are like now, I'm a lot further south than their stores. They were certainly pretty good twenty or so years ago when I lived just down the road from Leeds and then later in Nottingham (although the Nottingham store closed down in the end).