I love how ppl are getting up in arms over 10-12 bucks every 5-6 months.

$15 ship is 10.50 at 30% and 12 at 20%, now lets assume you get 2 of each ship in a wave of 4 ships, the difference is a whole 12 dollars.

Now if you cant afford 12 dollars more every 5 months you dont need to be playing xwing, and you need to seriously look into some money management classes.

******* pathetic that ppl are making a big deal out of this.

I thought Americans hated socialism.

only some types. everyone loves firemen, need cops, and want schools for their kids.

I only agree with the firemen thing.

You are better off homeschooling these days. The public education system is in the shitter with this common core drek.

When a fireman shows up, he has to figure out who to save.

When a police man shows up, he has to figure out who to kill.

But all of those things are pretty poor examples of socialism. The healthcare mandate is a better example.

agree about healthcare but disagree that these aren't all perfect examples of socialism in action.

Sure, public schools need more investment, cops need to stop killing people and I disagree totally on the fireman part but if you ask people what they think the basic services of society should be, you'll likely get those 4 (including healthcare) as the top 4.

A lot of people are idiots. The government should only promote good welfare, not provide it. They should only exist in an advisory role. Unless those people are perfectly willing to give up their freedoms to do what they want to their body, e.g., tattoos, alcohol, vitamin c supplements, abortions, sex, smoking, keeping furry pets in the house, they should not expect the rest of society to foot the bill whenever their lifestyle choices risk their health.

Because what if the government decides arguing with a jackass like me on the internet is bad for your health and turns off your internet? You get China.

"Artificial Inflation" is inflation caused by a single person or group of people buying out most of the items of one kind and reselling them at a higher or lower price.

Remember in the article when FFG said their policy is to not require a minimum price on their products?

Ok so we know that FFG is not responsible for any sort of artificial inflation by definition. They are attempting to combat those who are however. Websites that sell at a lower general cost to the consumer created this overall perception of price "inflation" because they took their distributor discount and essentially offered it to the customer, they buy in massive bulk and so generally have a better amount of stock than your local store...

They can do all of this because they have NO significant overhead. For those of us who are uneducated on what overhead is...it is the price or cost incurred just because you are actively doing business (paying your stores utility bills for example)... now while a website may have some they dont have and never will have the need to physically stock anything for presentation, they dont have to buy products to clean their stores any more than an average industrial warehouse would... they achieve maximum exposure and pay at absolute industry minimums for advertisement because thats what the internet practically does for you.

What I am saying here is your local game store owner cant afford to do the same he needs that difference to keep his little machine going. The sad part about all of this is from an educated perspective this is absolutely the best thing they could do in this situation in order to promote longevity in the game and reading this thread makes me want to gather you all in a room and show you a power point on the pros and cons.

Go ahead buy online get it at the lowest cost possible, just remember when you do you are sending your money somewhere else and if that's what you want to do , from major out of state based websites to facebook groups or wherever, No matter how you look at it it could have stayed local.

Though again I have to point out this is all perspective, it all depends how much you value your local store.

"Artificial Inflation" is inflation caused by a single person or group of people buying out most of the items of one kind and reselling them at a higher or lower price.

Remember in the article when FFG said their policy is to not require a minimum price on their products?

Ok so we know that FFG is not responsible for any sort of artificial inflation by definition. They are attempting to combat those who are however. Websites that sell at a lower general cost to the consumer created this overall perception of price "inflation" because they took their distributor discount and essentially offered it to the customer, they buy in massive bulk and so generally have a better amount of stock than your local store...

They can do all of this because they have NO significant overhead. For those of us who are uneducated on what overhead is...it is the price or cost incurred just because you are actively doing business (paying your stores utility bills for example)... now while a website may have some they dont have and never will have the need to physically stock anything for presentation, they dont have to buy products to clean their stores any more than an average industrial warehouse would... they achieve maximum exposure and pay at absolute industry minimums for advertisement because thats what the internet practically does for you.

What I am saying here is your local game store owner cant afford to do the same he needs that difference to keep his little machine going. The sad part about all of this is from an educated perspective this is absolutely the best thing they could do in this situation in order to promote longevity in the game and reading this thread makes me want to gather you all in a room and show you a power point on the pros and cons.

Go ahead buy online get it at the lowest cost possible, just remember when you do you are sending your money somewhere else and if that's what you want to do , from major out of state based websites to facebook groups or wherever, No matter how you look at it it could have stayed local.

Though again I have to point out this is all perspective, it all depends how much you value your local store.

Again,

What you post contains far too much sense for a thread that has degenerated so far, so quickly.

However, in response, what people are failing to see is that the internet sellers are lowering prices to the point that they can drive out competition from other internet sellers.

You sell your stock on ebay for £9.99? I have to sell mine to compete. Eventually the prices drop so low and the margins become so slim that people stop selling because it isn't worth the hassle.

Once you've driven potential competitors off?

Charge what you want.

Cheers

Baaa

Oh my god why are politics on the f**king X-Wing forum get out.

It's a good, healthy exchange of ideas around the company on whose forums we are discussing it. It's exactly what these forums are for and, in my mind, show a lot about the passion of the people here. I don't agree with a lot of what is being said and think this is all a storm in a teacup that people are just bitching about because they like to complain and feel entitled to when it comes to their own personal money, but that's what a forum is for so join in, enjoy it or, ahem, get out

I love how ppl are getting up in arms over 10-12 bucks every 5-6 months.

$15 ship is 10.50 at 30% and 12 at 20%, now lets assume you get 2 of each ship in a wave of 4 ships, the difference is a whole 12 dollars.

Now if you cant afford 12 dollars more every 5 months you dont need to be playing xwing, and you need to seriously look into some money management classes.

******* pathetic that ppl are making a big deal out of this.

It's not about not being able to afford (I think), although if your disposable income for x-wing is limited to 100$ for whatever reason it's not going to magically grow to 120 just because FFG rauses prices, so you will afford less.

It's about suddenly having to pay more for no tangible benefit.

I love how ppl are getting up in arms over 10-12 bucks every 5-6 months.

$15 ship is 10.50 at 30% and 12 at 20%, now lets assume you get 2 of each ship in a wave of 4 ships, the difference is a whole 12 dollars.

Now if you cant afford 12 dollars more every 5 months you dont need to be playing xwing, and you need to seriously look into some money management classes.

******* pathetic that ppl are making a big deal out of this.

It's not about not being able to afford (I think), although if your disposable income for x-wing is limited to 100$ for whatever reason it's not going to magically grow to 120 just because FFG rauses prices, so you will afford less.

It's about suddenly having to pay more for no tangible benefit.

Or, OR! Or people could learn to be happy with what they can afford. You know, the same spiel I give every entitled brat who comes on these forums to cry about paying for upgrade cards.

I love how ppl are getting up in arms over 10-12 bucks every 5-6 months.

$15 ship is 10.50 at 30% and 12 at 20%, now lets assume you get 2 of each ship in a wave of 4 ships, the difference is a whole 12 dollars.

Now if you cant afford 12 dollars more every 5 months you dont need to be playing xwing, and you need to seriously look into some money management classes.

******* pathetic that ppl are making a big deal out of this.

It's not about not being able to afford (I think), although if your disposable income for x-wing is limited to 100$ for whatever reason it's not going to magically grow to 120 just because FFG rauses prices, so you will afford less.

It's about suddenly having to pay more for no tangible benefit.

Or, OR! Or people could learn to be happy with what they can afford. You know, the same spiel I give every entitled brat who comes on these forums to cry about paying for upgrade cards.

It's your choice to be happy with this move, just like it's other people's choice not to be.

As I said before, it's not necessarily about what you can afford, but rather about suddenly paying more for the same product. Not everyone feels that maybe possibly perhaps they are helping some FLGS is enough/anyvadded value to justify the price increase.

I'd say that's a matter of perspective, and while everybody is certainly entitled to theirs, some (or most) are sorely lacking in said department. This is the Internet, and we expect people to air their grievances, no matter how unreasonable or misinformed. By the same token, a person who acts like a child should expect to get treated like one. It's that simple.

Must reiterate insults are not a substitute for a counter argument.

Must reiterate insults are not a substitute for a counter argument.

Neither is using this situation to further one's anti-GW crusade. *cough*

"I don't want to pay more money" is a valid concern. None of us want to pay more money. The lengths that people are going through to justify their outrage, however, varies greatly from the sound to the downright childish - with far more of the latter variety than the former. Is that insulting? Maybe, but it's no less true. People are entitled to their opinions, but they aren't entitled to plastic toys. If you want things, you have to pay for them. It's a lesson that every adult should have learned at some point.

I love how ppl are getting up in arms over 10-12 bucks every 5-6 months.

$15 ship is 10.50 at 30% and 12 at 20%, now lets assume you get 2 of each ship in a wave of 4 ships, the difference is a whole 12 dollars.

Now if you cant afford 12 dollars more every 5 months you dont need to be playing xwing, and you need to seriously look into some money management classes.

******* pathetic that ppl are making a big deal out of this.

It's not about not being able to afford (I think), although if your disposable income for x-wing is limited to 100$ for whatever reason it's not going to magically grow to 120 just because FFG rauses prices, so you will afford less.

It's about suddenly having to pay more for no tangible benefit.

Im sorry my friend I need to clarify something here...

FFG is not raising prices. FFG is removing the ability for certain retailers to undercut the competition. This is an important distinction for a few reasons...

This is not a cash grab for FFG thats impossible , they are still making the exact same amount of money per sale.

Most importantly and the part I find most amusing, essentially this could be compared to a long standing coupon or discount that has been removed. FFG hasnt raised anything but some of the retailers we used to buy from wont be able to offer those same discounts to us because their cost of doing business is going to increase.

Anyone who is mad about this is the same person who stands in line at the grocery store arguing with the clerk over that 10% coupon that expired yesterday while the rest of the people in line behind you weigh the pros and cons of changing lines. Sorry guys/gals but it just turns out that this coupon had an expiration date. Feel free to get over it.

It's your choice to be happy with this move, just like it's other people's choice not to be.

As I said before, it's not necessarily about what you can afford, but rather about suddenly paying more for the same product. Not everyone feels that maybe possibly perhaps they are helping some FLGS is enough/anyvadded value to justify the price increase.

I would not expect people to be happy about paying more for the same product. I think we can all agree that most people will be unhappy about that. That's what usually happens when you take a hit to your wallet.

There seems to be a certain amount of overreacting to it though. It's not like we are talking about necessities of life. We are talking about folk's discretionary spending.

Does it suck? Sure it does. It's quite unfortunate, but prices go up all the time. Is this truly the first time any of us encountered a price increase this year? At some point we are going to have to accept the new reality of FFG online sales and figure out how much it will impact us, and what we will do about it. It's like any other price increase we encountered this year, except less important than most, at least for me anyways.

Im sorry my friend I need to clarify something here...

This is not a cash grab for FFG thats impossible , they are still making the exact same amount of money per sale.

That's incorrect. They are making more money per sale after the change. By reducing the discount they are charging more per unit to the distributors. That means they make more per unit sold to those distributors. MSRP isn't changing but FFG is directly raising the amount of money they gain per sale.

Must reiterate insults are not a substitute for a counter argument.

Neither is using this situation to further one's anti-GW crusade. *cough*

That's the thing with crusades they go on for a while, but someone must fight the good fight or tyranny and evil win.

Im sorry my friend I need to clarify something here...

This is not a cash grab for FFG thats impossible , they are still making the exact same amount of money per sale.

That's incorrect. They are making more money per sale after the change. By reducing the discount they are charging more per unit to the distributors. That means they make more per unit sold to those distributors. MSRP isn't changing but FFG is directly raising the amount of money they gain per sale.

Oh, someone knows whats up, ok then...

I didnt realize that anyone was still focused on the topic and I was busy generalizing so forgive me.

I Disagree,

My statement was predicated upon the fact that FFG has made cost analysis projections including a drop in online retail sales as they explained in the interview article. The gentleman did clearly explain they assumed in those projections that online sales would drop because a portion of the online retailers would reduce the amount they purchase or back out entirely, so I applaud you for making a solid counter argument sir.

I must amend my original post to say that assuming those projections are correct FFG will in fact make more per sale but there is absolutely no way that the online retailers will be able to keep up their old habits with a 10-15% cost increase directly to the distributor, inevitably this will reduce the amount of online sales overall, most likely the distributors will reduce their stock because of reduced purchases from customers being forced to now weigh a fairly minor discount if any at all against having the product right now from the local brick and mortar store.

This will balance out over about 3 months once the change is made and in the end if FFG makes any additional profit it will be minimal, I would argue that they stand to take a bit of a hit from this for awhile till they makeup the difference through over the counter sales, or at least until the online retailers figure out what they really need to carry with the reduced amount of purchase traffic, we will have to see what happens on this last bit.

If you have any further opinion on the subject I would be glad to hear it.

Actually this doesn't make FFG more or less per sale - the discount you get online comes from the distribution mark up, not the manufactuer's mark up. The on-line retailers are giving larger discounts and earning by volume. If the online retailers agree to FFG's MSRP, its not FFG that gets the difference - but its the online retailer.

Why FFG doesn't want the online retailers flooding the market with cheap goods is the same as why every business controls pricings. It devalues the value of the product.

To anyone thinking FFG will not be making any more money I will break it down like this for you.

and for the record I don't have a business degree or anything in any related field, also my numbers will be off due to not having any insider knowledge.

1)FFG makes 10 000 of each ship in a wave.

2)FFG sells 6 000 ships to multiple distributors around the globe for lets say 6 dollars a ship those retailers then turn around and sell the ships to game stores for lets say 9 dollars a ship the stores sell them for 15 dollars everyone covers their costs and they are happy

3) FFG sells the other 4 000 ships to other game stores who buy in mass quantity for 6 dollars a ship those stores sell the ships for 10 dollars online and in their own brick and mortar stores. Everyone covers their costs.

so in the end FFG makes 60 000 dollars for those 10 000 ships they pay off the cost of manufacturing and other costs and rinse and repeat.

Now if I have read everything correctly how it will happen come April will be something like this

1) FFG makes 10 000 ships

2) FFG sells 6 000 ships to multiple distributors that they have chosen for 6 dollars a ship, distributor sells for 9 to game store, game store sells for 15

3) FFG sells the remaining 4 000 ships to selected online stores for 9 dollars a ship, online store sells for 12-13 dollars a ship.

so in the end FFG makes 72 000 off of this haul pays their expenses rinses and repeats

so now FFG makes 12 000 dollars more for the same shipment of ships. Now understand we are dealing with a lot more ships then 10 000 so the profits will be a lot more then 12 000 dollars. As you can see FFG will be making more money so long as sales stay the same.

Now I am not saying that this is a good or bad move on FFG's part but at some point in time after April we will start to see how the sales are going. I know for myself having no store to play at and the discount being reduced I will probably buy less or stop altogether and just wait until my daughter is old enough to play with the ships I currently own. And it is not because I cannot afford to pay MSRP for ships but because I do not play on a regular basis so I do not need to own the ships the day they come out I can wait for sales. The closest shop to my house is almost 30 minutes away and the price is about 25-35% above MSRP there and the next closest stores which are only a bit over MSRP is about 2 and a half hours away. So for all those people saying that people getting discounts should stop complaining and pay MSRP like the rest of the people. Well I ask you this what about the people who would have to pay above MSRP to get it from their LGS should they be sending this forum to those stores so you can tell them what price they should be charging? or will Asmodee ride in on their white horse and tell them they have a cap on how much they can make?

FFG and Asmodee are a business. At the most basic level: why would they do this if it doesn't make them more money in the long run?

Secondly I'm only an amateur in economics, so take the below with a grain of salt:

FFG will be selling less X-wing overall. There is no reason anyone will buy more after this decusion, but plenty of reasons some people will buy less. Assuming FFG propaganda is true (they want to help FLGS so they won't raise their price to them), the only way they will not take a hit to profit is if their new profit margin on online sales makes up for it even at reduced volume.

Of course, there's also the possibility FFG is sugar coating it and they're actually predicting an increase in online sales, as guys who were buyimg part at FLGS part online at great discounts might buy more online at lesser discount to keep the same average discount across their purchases.

But it's the one we've had the entire life of the game after three years it's far to late to worry about your game being devalued.

It's hardly too late.

Things are worth only what the customer will pay nothing more

No, different people value things differently. However, if nobody is willing to pay enough to keep a product line profitable, then the product line stops being made. Companies don't make things out of love with no profit.

If I don't think a ship's worth 14 when previously it was 10 then I won't buy it and sooner or later market pressure will lower the price for me as sellers want to shift old stock even at the expense of profit.

And there you have it, the crux of the argument. "People should sell me things at a loss because I don't want to pay what they cost."

I can't imagine that any person that makes this type of argument works for a living.

If FFG loses customers that weren't willing to pay to keep a product line alive, what loss is that to FFG? None whatsoever.

Your argument is childish; you clearly don't know what things really cost.

Let's say there are 4 entities involved in selling you that product at your LGS. That includes a manufacturer, a publisher, a distributor, and your LGS. Everyone in that chain will charge you twice what they paid to recover operating costs. So that $15 ship costs FFG $3.75 and only $1.88 to make. So if CSI sells it to you for $8 on CLEARANCE, then they're only out operating costs, which for online retail is relatively low. So when CSI puts it on clearance, it's because they have too much stock and costs too much to store, especially since they use Amazon's storage option.

What happens if the distributor charges CSI $9 instead of $7.77? Well, they can't charge $10 normal price anymore because they'll be operating at a loss. Instead they will have to charge something like $13, which puts them at a competitive disadvantage. Now they're not making much on ANA products anymore if at all. They may decide to stop selling entirely. What do you think happens at this point? Think it will be an argument about MSRP? What happens when your LGS has to pay the same increase? They'll pass that cost on and will be hit by the increase even worse.

So maybe instead of making sophmoric insults, you should get an education in how retail and distribution works.

And to add to what s1n has said, you are lucky if all they do is double the cost when it gets in their hands. I remember when all the buzz was for Tommy Hilfiger and I worked in the warehouse at a Duty Free Shop. We used to get in t-shirts, sweatshirts and maybe pants. I remember one day checking off the inventory as it came in and the supervisor gave me the invoice to go off of. The t-shirts cost us between 4-5 dollars a unit and sold for 30+ and the sweatshirts we paid 12-16 dollars and sold for 80+. I don't know how much the ships cost to make but I will guarantee they are cheap and FFG would never have sold to stores like MM and CSI if they were barely breaking even. I still say if they really wanted to help LGS's they would do something about costs to them or offering incentives to get people into their stores. The tournaments are really good but that is a small population of the gamers who actually go to those.

CSI IS the distributor though. Now imagine being a flgs, who has to buy from a distributor for 8 dollars. The same 8 dollars that distributor is selling the product online for. It completely destroys the distributor/store relationship. That's why Asmodee stopped supplying distributors that were abusing the system.

FRP

CSI

MM

They are all fronts for distributors.

Woe is me! I'll have to actually go to my FLGS to pick up my Xwing, instead of waiting for it to come in the mail to me!

(Seriously, I never play there, only at home or at Tournaments that are usually not there.)

I'm from the UK.

The prices from most retailers in America are the same prices we get here in the UK, but in Dollars, rather than GBP.

So small ships are roughly £10 and $10. The exchange rate is 1.5 approx, so Americans are already paying a third less than we are. The only reason I don't order every new wave from an American retailer is because you get hit with VAT and customs fees on top of the postage, which makes it more expensive than just buying in the UK.

An increase in price of 10% is 1 dollar, or 60-70 pence.

If you can't afford to pay an extra 60 pence per ship, you certainly might want to examine the reason why you're spending 10+ bucks on a toy to begin with (as opposed to food, bills, or petrol). You may also want to compare prices with some other miniature manufacturers out there, to realize just how **** cheap this game is to play. 2x Starter sets, plus a Falcon and a Decimator and a star mat is a perfectly valid starter kit, and costs roughly £100. That gives you two armies you can play, some upgrades to mix around, and an area to play on, as well as scenarios, terrain, and options for future purchases that synergize well with them.

Compare that to, say, (yes, we've all heard it before) Warhammer, where the minimum spend on an army+paint+glue+rules+tools+board+scenery is probably £500+, and each unit costs a minimum of £20 and averages £30...

Price hikes are an inevitable part of life. Inflation happens. Financial collapse happens. Companies change strategies. Costs increase. Get used to it, and be thankful that this one was relatively tiny.

You sir, are a legend.

To anyone thinking FFG will not be making any more money I will break it down like this for you.

and for the record I don't have a business degree or anything in any related field, also my numbers will be off due to not having any insider knowledge.

1)FFG makes 10 000 of each ship in a wave.

2)FFG sells 6 000 ships to multiple distributors around the globe for lets say 6 dollars a ship those retailers then turn around and sell the ships to game stores for lets say 9 dollars a ship the stores sell them for 15 dollars everyone covers their costs and they are happy

3) FFG sells the other 4 000 ships to other game stores who buy in mass quantity for 6 dollars a ship those stores sell the ships for 10 dollars online and in their own brick and mortar stores. Everyone covers their costs.

so in the end FFG makes 60 000 dollars for those 10 000 ships they pay off the cost of manufacturing and other costs and rinse and repeat.

Now if I have read everything correctly how it will happen come April will be something like this

1) FFG makes 10 000 ships

2) FFG sells 6 000 ships to multiple distributors that they have chosen for 6 dollars a ship, distributor sells for 9 to game store, game store sells for 15

3) FFG sells the remaining 4 000 ships to selected online stores for 9 dollars a ship, online store sells for 12-13 dollars a ship.

so in the end FFG makes 72 000 off of this haul pays their expenses rinses and repeats

so now FFG makes 12 000 dollars more for the same shipment of ships. Now understand we are dealing with a lot more ships then 10 000 so the profits will be a lot more then 12 000 dollars. As you can see FFG will be making more money so long as sales stay the same.

Now I am not saying that this is a good or bad move on FFG's part but at some point in time after April we will start to see how the sales are going. I know for myself having no store to play at and the discount being reduced I will probably buy less or stop altogether and just wait until my daughter is old enough to play with the ships I currently own. And it is not because I cannot afford to pay MSRP for ships but because I do not play on a regular basis so I do not need to own the ships the day they come out I can wait for sales. The closest shop to my house is almost 30 minutes away and the price is about 25-35% above MSRP there and the next closest stores which are only a bit over MSRP is about 2 and a half hours away. So for all those people saying that people getting discounts should stop complaining and pay MSRP like the rest of the people. Well I ask you this what about the people who would have to pay above MSRP to get it from their LGS should they be sending this forum to those stores so you can tell them what price they should be charging? or will Asmodee ride in on their white horse and tell them they have a cap on how much they can make?

Short mode: Does not work this way.

Long mode:

1) FFG makes 10,000 units per batch for sale. It sells sets its MSRP at $20 and it price to distributor at $10.

2) Distributors A, B, C, D, E each receive 2,000 units. Distributor A, B, C sells their 2,000 units to various B&M retailers at $13 - 16 depending on volume. Distributor D sells on-line for $20. Distributor E decides to sell on-line for $18.

3) After a while distributor D decides to undercut distributor E, after a few months of on-line price war, they stabilize their prices at $16

4) B&M retailers complain to Distributor A, B, C that they cannot compete with Distributor D & E and decide to stop carrying the product. Distributor B & C decide to stop carrying the product and sell their remaining stocks to Distributor D & E.

5) FFG now has 4,000 excess units it needs to get rid of, Distributor D & E offer to take 2,000 each.

6) FFG's product becomes super popular due to a Tie in release. B&M mega chain X, Y, Z want to carry the product, which FFG says will cost them $10 and the MSRP is $20. B&M mega chain X, Y, Z checks online and sees Distributor D & E selling at $16. They do not agree to selling the product at $20 when it can be bought easily at $16 and demand a revised MSRP of $16 and to be sold the product at $8.

This is the type of situation FFG is finding themselves in. Of course product numbers are higher and distribution channels are greater. My numbers for distribution are somewhat accurate for the industry - a distributor tends to get product at around 50% MSRP. This is why on-line stores can sell at 40% and still make a profit.