This forum can be really hostile against people with smaller budgets. You know that just cause you don't have as much disposable income as someone else doesnt' mean you're not allowed to have hobbies right?

We are discussing luxury items.

Makers of luxury items have no obligation to lose money so that you can have a hobby.

Nobody owes you a loss of their livelihood so that you can have lots of toys to play with.

So, it is unreasonable for people to pay MSRP?

It's unreasonable to expect people that are used to not paying MSRP on a product to be perfectly fine with suddenly having to pay it.

It is also unreasonable to expect these same people to continue to buy at the same rate as they previously did with this effective price increase.

This forum can be really hostile against people with smaller budgets. You know that just cause you don't have as much disposable income as someone else doesnt' mean you're not allowed to have hobbies right?

We are discussing luxury items.

Makers of luxury items have no obligation to lose money so that you can have a hobby.

Nobody owes you a loss of their livelihood so that you can have lots of toys to play with.

There is also the question about not having a community where you can borrow stuff, if really, really needed. It's nice to own stuff, but friends are great to have.

So, it is unreasonable for people to pay MSRP?

It's unreasonable to expect people that are used to not paying MSRP on a product to be perfectly fine with suddenly having to pay it.

It is also unreasonable to expect these same people to continue to buy at the same rate as they previously did with this effective price increase.

So, what happens when the first true price increase happens? When MSRP actually goes up?

So, what happens when the first true price increase happens? When MSRP actually goes up?

The difference is that MSRP going up due to inflation or whatever is more acceptable than retracting discounts that have become the norm for some people.

It could be argued that it wasn't FFG's intention to make those discounted prices the norm in the first place, but I think people have the right to be upset that their monthly MM binge purchases have shot up 20% for the same product due to a change in pricing policy.

Not saying that FFG's move here is at all similar to GW's price hikes, but the effect is similar on players (i.e. being forced to pay more for the same product).

Personally I don't mind since my LGS's deserve my business.

So, what happens when the first true price increase happens? When MSRP actually goes up?

The same thing that's happening now.

So, it is unreasonable for people to pay MSRP?

Just a question, do you pay MSRP on your automobile? if you do why? It is just a suggested retail price. I pay over MSRP at my LGS I also take the trash out and clean the place up so the group has a nice place to play. I still buy there and also at online discount when saving 20 USD or more.

I actually almost never buy at msrp when it comes to non food items, I got myself a new i5 hp laptop for £300 when shops were advertising i3 for £50 more.

I've never paid full price for a 360 or xbone game, I got the new console cheaper than you can buy 2nd hand.

Wouldn't touch GW stuff at retail back when I still played I would not ever buy direct from them.

So yes I think your silly to pay full price when there are bargains out there to be taken advantage of.

If you want to support a store that's your choice, other people should not be forced to when they don't play there.

I thought Americans hated socialism.

I thought Americans hated socialism.

only some types. everyone loves firemen, need cops, and want schools for their kids.

...I thought Americans hated socialism.

So,

Getting what you want, at the price you want it. And not bothering about how you managed to get it at the price you wanted, or how it effects anyone else is Socialism?

I'm pretty sure Engels and Marx are turning in their graves at that particular interpretation of the word.

Cheers

Baaa

To be fair, that is a very American view of socialism.

Getting what you want, at the price you want it. And not bothering about how you managed to get it at the price you wanted, or how it effects anyone else is Socialism?

No, you've got that exactly backwards. I think his point is:

Being forced to pay an artificially inflated price for a product in order to support how OTHERS wish to use it is socialism.

I use to buy half online half in store. Saved 35% on half and full MSRP on other half. Averaging what 17% discount.

I will buy EVERYTHING online now and save 20-25%.

Really this change is going to save me money by "Forcing" me to be the smart consumer and buy everything online.

Thanks Asmodee!

Getting what you want, at the price you want it. And not bothering about how you managed to get it at the price you wanted, or how it effects anyone else is Socialism?

No, you've got that exactly backwards. I think his point is:

Being forced to pay an artificially inflated price for a product in order to support how OTHERS wish to use it is socialism.

No,

I've got it entirely right.

Gist of the thread so far -

1. Internet outrage at a multinational company acting like a multinational company.

2. Faux outrage at wanting all of the toys that everyone else has, but not wanting to pay full market value for it.

3. The sky has fallen in because we don't know all of the facts, but hey, this is the interwebz so we can speculate the hell out of everything.

4. Continue to take the moral high ground; when actually, all I'm interested in is how something that isn't going to affect me in any way, shape or form because I live in the UK, can be made to look as though it affects me.

Cheers

Baaa

Just preordered all next wave online. Saved what $80 or so? Nice!

Thanks Assmodee!

1. Internet outrage at a multinational company acting like a multinational company.

2. Faux outrage at wanting all of the toys that everyone else has, but not wanting to pay full market value for it.

3. The sky has fallen in because we don't know all of the facts, but hey, this is the interwebz so we can speculate the hell out of everything.

4. Continue to take the moral high ground; when actually, all I'm interested in is how something that isn't going to affect me in any way, shape or form because I live in the UK, can be made to look as though it affects me.

Lovely summary.

Being forced to pay an artificially inflated price for a product in order to support how OTHERS wish to use it is socialism.

That's not what is happening, that's not what socialism is and nobody is forcing you to buy this stuff.

Being forced to pay an artificially inflated price for a product in order to support how OTHERS wish to use it is socialism.

but here's the thing, no one is forcing anyone. If your wages were all taken by the state and redistributed or if you were saying that you were having to pay triple the cost of bread to make up for the poorer population, you'd have a point - Asmodee/FFG trying to make more money isn't socialism in any form. This might be price rigging or something else, but no one is forcing you to buy anything.

You can stop anytime you want

Realistically this is the change.

Before: online 40% off, FLGS 10% off

After: online 20% off, FLGS 10% off

Does it suck personally for you if you only ever buy online? Yes. Is it a good change for the long term heath of the game? Yes.

That's the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum.

Why is that a good change for the long term health of the game? What real evidence are you basing that on?

Then you can't have been around for very long.

I'm not certain why you think it is dumb.

I think Peterson is absolutely correct, and Asmodee NA is making a very sound decision. Yes, it will suck for those people buying only online (and not playing at FLGSs) - but it can help the FLGSs, because it can help them compete against the online retailers, who have had to suffer what is essentially an unfair disadvantage while did more to grow the hobby as a whole.

I see this baseless assertion all the time. That LGSs grow the market in any kind of significant manner. There is no proof of this. It seems more to me that the internet, more than anything, has pushed the hobby gaming market into incredible growth in the last 10-15 years and that rising tide has lifted the FLGS boat - not the other way around. There are orders of magnitude more game companies and more games released now than there were even 10 years ago. Do we seriously believe that FLGSs that have existed for decades just suddenly kicked it into gear in the last decade? Of course not. Exposure on the Facebook, on Boardgamegeek, on YouTube, in movies and on TV - there is where the growth comes from. The ability to find these games for sale online, to learn the rules from videos, to see others having fun experiencing them without leaving your couch - there is where the growth comes from. Your LGS isn't even a blip. And for every LGS that actually creates customers, there are 5 with poor lighting, unfriendly employees, a Magic-centric vibe, and dirty play space to scare them away.

And inevitably what I see when new people start buying games (or they buy games as gifts) is that they are SHOCKED by the sticker prices and only slightly less shocked by the online prices. People have spent their whole lives paying $12 for a copy of Monopoly at Wal-Mart.

The other thing I've seen is more and more game stores and game cafés opening than ever before - and by a huge margin. Because the internet created the market, the exposure, and the interest - not the game store down the street. I would wager that 90% of the people in a town with an FLGS don't even know it exists, and 99.9% of them have never set a foot inside.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - If Asmodee wants to raise prices, that's fine. It is a game and it is their product to sell as they wish. But don't think you are tricking me into believing it is about evening the playing field and helping brick and mortar stores who are "so important" to the hobby. They're not. They aren't growing the market - they are the recipients of the benefit of a market exploding around them.

Preach!

First off I understand why people are upset about this I do, I am one of the many who has purchased from online retailers over the years and so please understand that I get all of your complaints and to a point I share some of them.

I said it earlier in the thread but I have worked in corporate level marketing for fifteen years now, specifically in the hobbyist gaming field. That being said you all need to realize a few things...

1. The products as they are priced are more than reasonable and knowing personally what goes into consideration with packaging and distribution I maybe understand that better than most. I agree that some of the epic title fixing card issues seem like a cash grab, I cant justify that part but in comparison to what some other gaming companies have put their fans through I consider myself lucky that FFG cares enough to listen to the fans and distribute them at all... if the upcoming c3p0 is any example I would expect we will have ways to get these in the future, FFG is showing they can hear us, now do your part to understand that and dont offer so much uniformed general criticism without at least considering the positive things they are doing thats more than a little unfair.

2. Local Brick and Mortar stores are without a doubt the single most important element to any hobby type collectible game like this. You are correct in that Wal mart sells many popular board games that have endured the test of time, monopoly as well comes to my mind, these games are designed to endure in the home, they bring groups of people together, and most importantly require you to pay one fixed cost and your done. A collectible game is far different and I think if you would relax and take a deep breath to let go of your hate...(lol couldnt help myself) ... you could see it or probably already know this. The day there are no more local stores and we rely on a major retailer or only online retailers to sell this game is the day it dies I assure you, an absolute nightmare scenario for any hobbyist gaming company.

3. Lastly just in case anyone was thinking it.. "Oh dont worry there will always be local game stores they will just cut their losses and stop selling x wing but it will be so widely sold in other ways well just bring it and play."

I suppose that might be possible but tournaments and other competitive events are what fuel interest in the hobby, new players in this scenario would be rare and moreover you would lose a large part of your local club to other more well supported games, because if the local retailer doesn't sell it he most likely wont support it.

Just think on all that for awhile.

First off I understand why people are upset about this I do, I am one of the many who has purchased from online retailers over the years and so please understand that I get all of your complaints and to a point I share some of them.

I said it earlier in the thread but I have worked in corporate level marketing for fifteen years now, specifically in the hobbyist gaming field. That being said you all need to realize a few things...

1. The products as they are priced are more than reasonable and knowing personally what goes into consideration with packaging and distribution I maybe understand that better than most. I agree that some of the epic title fixing card issues seem like a cash grab, I cant justify that part but in comparison to what some other gaming companies have put their fans through I consider myself lucky that FFG cares enough to listen to the fans and distribute them at all... if the upcoming c3p0 is any example I would expect we will have ways to get these in the future, FFG is showing they can hear us, now do your part to understand that and dont offer so much uniformed general criticism without at least considering the positive things they are doing thats more than a little unfair.

2. Local Brick and Mortar stores are without a doubt the single most important element to any hobby type collectible game like this. You are correct in that Wal mart sells many popular board games that have endured the test of time, monopoly as well comes to my mind, these games are designed to endure in the home, they bring groups of people together, and most importantly require you to pay one fixed cost and your done. A collectible game is far different and I think if you would relax and take a deep breath to let go of your hate...(lol couldnt help myself) ... you could see it or probably already know this. The day there are no more local stores and we rely on a major retailer or only online retailers to sell this game is the day it dies I assure you, an absolute nightmare scenario for any hobbyist gaming company.

3. Lastly just in case anyone was thinking it.. "Oh dont worry there will always be local game stores they will just cut their losses and stop selling x wing but it will be so widely sold in other ways well just bring it and play."

I suppose that might be possible but tournaments and other competitive events are what fuel interest in the hobby, new players in this scenario would be rare and moreover you would lose a large part of your local club to other more well supported games, because if the local retailer doesn't sell it he most likely wont support it.

Just think on all that for awhile.

Go and wash your mouth out with soap.

Don't ever; ever, offend our internet outrage by posting something so sensible in a rant thread ever again.

Begone witch.

Cheers

Baaa

I thought Americans hated socialism.

only some types. everyone loves firemen, need cops, and want schools for their kids.

I only agree with the firemen thing.

You are better off homeschooling these days. The public education system is in the shitter with this common core drek.

When a fireman shows up, he has to figure out who to save.

When a police man shows up, he has to figure out who to kill.

But all of those things are pretty poor examples of socialism. The healthcare mandate is a better example.

No,

I've got it entirely right.

I don't give a **** about any of the rest of your post, but you grasped exactly the opposite of the point the post you responded to was making.

I thought Americans hated socialism.

only some types. everyone loves firemen, need cops, and want schools for their kids.

I only agree with the firemen thing.

You are better off homeschooling these days. The public education system is in the shitter with this common core drek.

When a fireman shows up, he has to figure out who to save.

When a police man shows up, he has to figure out who to kill.

But all of those things are pretty poor examples of socialism. The healthcare mandate is a better example.

agree about healthcare but disagree that these aren't all perfect examples of socialism in action.

Sure, public schools need more investment, cops need to stop killing people and I disagree totally on the fireman part but if you ask people what they think the basic services of society should be, you'll likely get those 4 (including healthcare) as the top 4.

No,

I've got it entirely right.

I don't give a **** about any of the rest of your post, but you grasped exactly the opposite of the point the post you responded to was making.

And when you've actually got a grasp of what Socialism is; rather than the perverted view of the ideology that you seem to think is the correct one, come back.

Until then? Bye, bye.

Cheers

Baaa

Oh my god why are politics on the f**king X-Wing forum get out.

Oh my god why are politics on the f**king X-Wing forum get out.

Because it's the interwebz baby.

And Capitalism.

Cheers

Baaa