I know everyone has been talking about Ackbar a lot here recently, so I figured I'd add my two cents based on a conversation I was having with my last opponent. I DO NOT think that he breaks the game and is an auto-win, but I really don't think you can honestly say he isn't the biggest bargain out there for his points. ALL rebels ships (excluding the CR90b) have red dice so its not like you have to build for him. The side-arcs are HUGE on all the ships. The rebel ships are maneuverable enough to stay at red range. All of these things make me think that FFG did make a mistake with him. Look at the Imperial expensive general, Tarkin. You have to build for him and its not intuitive (he wants more ships, but not low-command cheap ships). I appreciate that. Like I said, I'm not just exclusively whining as I've won more games against them than I've lost.

Here are my proposed ideas on how I think he could've been more interesting (i think he would need to be cheaper on these, but I'm not a developer so I'm not going to ball-park points ranges). I'm also curious for you guys' inputs as well.

1. He adds two Blues instead of Two Reds (this would encourage you to build more durable so you can survive getting in there and would lessen the horror of the TRC90s).

2. The text reads "When ANOTHER ship is attacking" (as in you can't use him when your flagship attacks), that way you don't want to put him on your heavy-hitters (and therefore more survivable ships).

3. He adds the two reds on your FRONT arcs (making the Neb's a little more relevant all of a sudden).

4. He adds two reds still, but only when attacking at close-medium range

5. "While attacking out of the side-arcs, this model can only make one attack, if it does so it can add two red dice"

6. The ship can choose A side-arc to use the ability with (at least then a divide and conquer strategy could work).

7. He works ONLY at Long-Range (therefore, if you can get in close, you can negate the super firepower).

Those are just my ideas on how to make him a little more fun, rather than being a no-brainer. I also realize Screed was similar to Ackbar (as in he was the go-to) in the pre-wave I world, but that was because there wasn't enough points to have enough ships to make Tarkin super relevant and Motti is pretty meh all-around. I really am not trying to be whiny here, and I know that the other generals are really good, but Ackbar takes the strategy that dominated the Rebel meta (and was considered stale) and makes it all the harder to stray from it.

none of these make him more fun, only more ****

except for 3, which just has him chair-flip MM from her throne as queen of the cr-90 swarm

none of these make him more fun, only more ****

except for 3, which just has him chair-flip MM from her throne as queen of the cr-90 swarm

I think he is fine. He plays towards the strengths of the rebels.

Let's pull it by the numbers.

#1; blue dice into the jaws of an ISD. . . Unless he has no range limit in which case CR90's B's and Torpedo Frigates away, or anything with red dice that can get blue dice at long range.

#2; He would be the ONLY Commander that does not affect all of his ships. How would you suggest to lower his points for this?

#3; This would make the Assault Frigate and the MC80 less useful and so there would be no good uses for Gunnery Teams. Sure it would make the Assault Frigate Mark IIA a tiny bit better but not really.

#4; have you considered that the ISD 2 would love this? It would also play against the basic rebel strategy.

#5; is just an upgraded Slaved Turrets. No one would take him at that point.

#6; is also bad for those ships that can not take gunnery teams. . . Which is all but the Assault Frigate and MC30

#7; This would just encourage the Imperials to have a speed 3 and **** the Turbolasers strategy.

So, how would you adjust his points for each one of these?

I think Ackbar himself is completely fine. Its the combo of Ackbar + gunnery teams that gets a bit rough........To be honest though I just generally dislike gunnery teams, they feel like it becomes much too easy to maximise the firepower of any given ship.

The only thing I'd change about Ackbar is maybe saying small ships get 1 extra die. (but i doubt id give huge ships 3 dice.)

Your suggestions are neither fun nor better nor more balanced. Ackbar is fun and makes you have to find new movement patterns. To maximize side arcing.

I really don't think you can honestly say he isn't the biggest bargain out there for his points.

I can and I'll go one step further: he's a points sink. A double arc shot is better in almost all circumstances. Only the AFIIB does not get better with a double arc under any circumstances, but it only breaks even. Double arc isn't easy, but I've seen players that can get it 9 times out of 10. Ackbar just makes life simple, not better. Repeat after me: double arc is greater than Ackbar.

Personally, I'm hooked on Garm and Mon Mothma. Garm is truly underappreciated. Mothma is just plain awesome in the right build.

The worst thing about Akbar is that taking him means you cannot put MM in scout-frigate Foresight and laugh at your opponent pulling their hair out in frustration all game.

I also like Neb-Bs. Playing without them feels weird and wrong.

The only thing I'd change about Ackbar is maybe saying small ships get 1 extra die. (but i doubt id give huge ships 3 dice.)

Your suggestions are neither fun nor better nor more balanced. Ackbar is fun and makes you have to find new movement patterns. To maximize side arcing.

This. Almost all admirals scale (directly or indirectly) with ships size to some degree, except for ackbar who magically adds half a dozen TLs to whatever the f'ck you are flying. Orkish bolt-on dakka anyone? The idea that a large ship brizzling with guns is getting the exact same bonus like a CR90 just doesnt work for me, but that doesnt mean he is broken. It just means a scaling bonus would have been more fun and challenge to me.

well the interesting thing is this: CRs dont have gunnery team. So thus they either have to ackbar slash (which is dangerous for a ship that small) or forgo one attack. If you look, if you get a double arc with the CR its about the same value of dice. The plus side is that Ackbar makes it so that you don't need to double arc for that high damage for low cost.

Thus imo, i dont think ackbar NEEEDED to be 1 die for small ships. Also, would have needed I think a 3rd red dice for shrimp frigates.

I feel he would have been better (for the game, as he just dwarfs other Rebel admirals) if he were a little bit cheaper, and only gave 1 extra die from the sides but of any colour. Essentially a special concentrate fire command that works in addition to a normal concentrate fire command. Now he is useful for any Rebel ship but not to a level where covette side arcs rival star destroyer's front arcs at long range.

Anyhow it is as it is, and I don't think he will be changed.

I agree that ackbar on CR90s is not a big problem, and like I said before I dont think he is particularly OP - I just dont see much sense in a flat bonus from a fluff perspective. For the synergy with gunnery teams, now that is another topic and afaik FFG is still undecided how to rule it in any upcoming FAQ.

I wish Ackbar had been like 38 points like Tarkin. Then he'd be totally balanced.

Oh wait...

I agree that ackbar on CR90s is not a big problem, and like I said before I dont think he is particularly OP - I just dont see much sense in a flat bonus from a fluff perspective. For the synergy with gunnery teams, now that is another topic and afaik FFG is still undecided how to rule it in any upcoming FAQ.

Already in the new FAQ.

Akbar works with both shots from a gunnery team.

well guys, this is why I made the disclaimer that I'm no game-designer as it appears that my suggestions don't make too much sense. I guess I was just trying to come up with a way that didn't give the flat bonus that essentially always triggers and apparently I did a bad job (no, I'm not forgetting about the torpedo frigates or CR90bs, I just haven't seen them get played too often).

I'm not really all that sold on the double-arc arguement. You are spreading out your shots for the benefit of rolling one or two extra dice. While there certainly are circumstances where you might want to do it, in order to do so you have to have your approach vector be altered, putting you more in harms way. Rolling in that wide arc with gunnery teams is a lot safer and is a lot more harder to evade with relatively minor decreases in firepower.

well guys, this is why I made the disclaimer that I'm no game-designer as it appears that my suggestions don't make too much sense. I guess I was just trying to come up with a way that didn't give the flat bonus that essentially always triggers and apparently I did a bad job (no, I'm not forgetting about the torpedo frigates or CR90bs, I just haven't seen them get played too often).

I'm not really all that sold on the double-arc arguement. You are spreading out your shots for the benefit of rolling one or two extra dice. While there certainly are circumstances where you might want to do it, in order to do so you have to have your approach vector be altered, putting you more in harms way. Rolling in that wide arc with gunnery teams is a lot safer and is a lot more harder to evade with relatively minor decreases in firepower.

Spreading out shots is almost always an advantage. It dilutes defense tokens, especially brace. It's one of the major advantages of squadrons. I do, however, completely and totally agree with your assessment on Ackbar's movement advantage. THAT is his true ability.

Still, I've played a few games against him now. I'm just not impressed. If you're using a gunnery team on an MC30, you're not getting effectiveness out of the black dice. The AFII is the only ship were Ackbar truly thrives because of the gunnery team. Even with that, he's eminently beatable. Squadrons are his weakness.

If you pushing for a change to ackbar the. ehymer should also be changed

well guys, this is why I made the disclaimer that I'm no game-designer as it appears that my suggestions don't make too much sense. I guess I was just trying to come up with a way that didn't give the flat bonus that essentially always triggers and apparently I did a bad job (no, I'm not forgetting about the torpedo frigates or CR90bs, I just haven't seen them get played too often).

I'm not really all that sold on the double-arc arguement. You are spreading out your shots for the benefit of rolling one or two extra dice. While there certainly are circumstances where you might want to do it, in order to do so you have to have your approach vector be altered, putting you more in harms way. Rolling in that wide arc with gunnery teams is a lot safer and is a lot more harder to evade with relatively minor decreases in firepower.

Spreading out shots is almost always an advantage. It dilutes defense tokens, especially brace. It's one of the major advantages of squadrons. I do, however, completely and totally agree with your assessment on Ackbar's movement advantage. THAT is his true ability.

Still, I've played a few games against him now. I'm just not impressed. If you're using a gunnery team on an MC30, you're not getting effectiveness out of the black dice. The AFII is the only ship were Ackbar truly thrives because of the gunnery team. Even with that, he's eminently beatable. Squadrons are his weakness.

Squadrons are and are not his weakness.

I think if people start taking AFMKII-A's we will see this lessen.

If you start to maximize Ackbar you will suffer against squadrons and that is where I think people make some mistakes in their builds.

If you pushing for a change to ackbar the. ehymer should also be changed

I agree (I said as much in the prior threads discussing this).

What about this change, it only works against ships with medium or large bases, that way it doesn't vaporize the smaller ships completely (and maybe drop him down to something like 32-34 points)?

EDIT: nvrmind, wasn't considering swarm lists.

(and maybe drop him down to something like 32-34 points)?

For what it's worth... FFG will never change the price of a card, or any of the stats for that matter, other than via a upgrade of some sort.

So if you want to discuss 'what if' that's cool. But if you want to discuss what you think should happen, changes in point cost is off the table.

Oh I know it won't get changed and I'm not gathering the mob to storm the FFG HQ unless they give into my demands. Im just considering other ideas (not necessarily good ones) that I think would've been interesting.

Make Enhanced Armaments cost 5pts and I'll never consider taking Ackbar again!

Make Enhanced Armaments cost 5pts and I'll never consider taking Ackbar again!

Or not be a modification ~_^

well guys, this is why I made the disclaimer that I'm no game-designer as it appears that my suggestions don't make too much sense. I guess I was just trying to come up with a way that didn't give the flat bonus that essentially always triggers and apparently I did a bad job (no, I'm not forgetting about the torpedo frigates or CR90bs, I just haven't seen them get played too often).

I'm not really all that sold on the double-arc arguement. You are spreading out your shots for the benefit of rolling one or two extra dice. While there certainly are circumstances where you might want to do it, in order to do so you have to have your approach vector be altered, putting you more in harms way. Rolling in that wide arc with gunnery teams is a lot safer and is a lot more harder to evade with relatively minor decreases in firepower.

Spreading out shots is almost always an advantage. It dilutes defense tokens, especially brace. It's one of the major advantages of squadrons. I do, however, completely and totally agree with your assessment on Ackbar's movement advantage. THAT is his true ability.

Still, I've played a few games against him now. I'm just not impressed. If you're using a gunnery team on an MC30, you're not getting effectiveness out of the black dice. The AFII is the only ship were Ackbar truly thrives because of the gunnery team. Even with that, he's eminently beatable. Squadrons are his weakness.

Squadrons are and are not his weakness.

I think if people start taking AFMKII-A's we will see this lessen.

If you start to maximize Ackbar you will suffer against squadrons and that is where I think people make some mistakes in their builds.

I really disagree with you: squadrons are the problem for ackbar.

1. There are no cheap anti squadron possibilities to cover ackbar. Unlike imperial choices.

2. The A version honestly costs a lot. 18 points for two. When your squadrons don't pull as much anti squadron weight as imperials do you you need more.

3. Ackbar is dependent on good movement plans and tricking an opponent. Thus more ships and more squadrons for deploy delay are required.

4. Playing mass squadrons just sucks!!!! It's the complete opposite of the Edsel-blerg in this wave. With boosted comms.

On another note boosted comms was the hero squadrons needed.

Wait. . . X-Wings backed by Jan pulls less weight than Imperials? I don't know about that. It will boil down to how they are used. In fact I think Gallant Haven might come back.

Wait. . . X-Wings backed by Jan pulls less weight than Imperials? I don't know about that. It will boil down to how they are used. In fact I think Gallant Haven might come back.

What would be the best way to use Gallant Haven?