Xizor can get PS9 but then only gets one action, and when he needs to pull some hard maneuvers, his Posse can't follow him anymore and his Pilot ability becomes totally useless.

Umm.....I don't get this. I've flown a lot of Xizor with Z-95's. I give Xizor FCS and VI. He's got PS 9 and the action economy comes from the free TL. It's not really that hard to stay close to at least one of those Z-95's. You fly them in a loose grouping. Also, I found Xizor usually prefers the 1 hard turn as opposed to the S-loop.

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Virago (1)

Total: 37

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This is the build, right?

I mean let's compare it to what other aces offer. at similar cost

35 point Soontir is harder to hit and has a much better pilot ability plus even better action economy and dial at cheaper natural ps 9. Can also Boost/Barrel roll if necessary. Less HP and a bit more green dice dependent though.

35-37 point Vader has better action economy, can Boost/Barrel roll if necessary as a natural PS9. Can get to PS11 if you want and has slightly better firepower with ATC. Can turtle well but no Autothrusters.

48 Point Corran can Boost/Barrel roll and turtle really well. His firepower is similar with FCS except for the mighty double Tap. Lower PS, much higher price and no Autothrusters are the disadvantages. But then R2-D2 makes up for it all with its shield regen shenanigans.

37-39 point Poe has more hitpoints, and depending on builds, can not boost and focus or has lower PS. However he does almost always take shield regen which makes him very durable. His Pilot Ability is again much better than Xizor's. Firepower depends on the build for him.

There are of course more "aces" like Miranda for the Rebels and a wide array of other imperial ones that can reach PS8-10. We can also begin to watch at Tie Defendersbecause of the fix.

But the most successful at the moment are probably the above.

Xizor does not compare awfully to them, but generally lacks a bit in comparison to them. Especially the Pilot ability is often useless because even if you get to use it that means your allies are dying faster. And no Boost/Barrel roll can be a big disadvantage in direct duels.

These have to be, after all, the reasons why these ships are constantly played and Xizor is not!

The starviper does not need, nor is it receiving help. It's a matter of figuring out how to fly it.

It's the most capable blocker in the game, with a full compliment of 1 and 2 speed maneuvers as well as multiple repositioning choices. No other ship boasts that. It's also fast, with white straight maneuvers at 4, and a native boost. Flown as generics,a starviper can work its way into your flank while you chase the scarier parts of my list, block you, s-loop around you, and continue its chase.

It's basically the love child the b-wing and the a-wing never talk about.

I don't often use this in arguments, but you're wrong.

I flown them last wave to win a championship, I flew them to the point of fighting a Brobot and never being in arc. Know what stopped that list from being on tables anymore? TLTs. And screw your "Oh autothrusters save them." No, no they don't! You'll fail 1 roll with only 3 dice on your side and no evade token and probably 1 focus. Sensor jammer will save you, Guri with Sensor Jammers is safe from TLT and still can punch, but that's one pilot out of 4. Xizor folds to TLT due to he passes a hit in the roll, not a dealt damage.

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

You can't.

Boostwing, acewing, name it as you wish, the point stays the same.

You can... bring a Torkil Mux to the game

Other than Xizor with his Z squad. For me the Starviper is (should be) the interceptor of the scum faction.

And there is your problem. You are trying to fly an Interceptor instead of a StarViper. I love the PS 1 as a blocker.

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

You can't.

Boostwing, acewing, name it as you wish, the point stays the same.

Now, the vast majority of the X-wing playerbase does not have the same level of skill those guys do. But it's incorrect to say that it's impossible to compete without a hypermobile Ace.

Scum won't get that many PS 8 or 9 pilots. That's part of what Scum is. There needs to be something else.

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

I do think it could use more green moves and the generics can be a little cheaper. Otherwise, it's fine.

Not to mention that Scum will already have its second skill 9 pilot. All the factions have only 2 skill 9 pilots. The new subfactions don't have any but then again the new subfactions don't have any ships either.

Scum won't get that many PS 8 or 9 pilots. That's part of what Scum is. There needs to be something else.

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

I do think it could use more green moves and the generics can be a little cheaper. Otherwise, it's fine.

Not to mention that Scum will already have its second skill 9 pilot. All the factions have only 2 skill 9 pilots. The new subfactions don't have any but then again the new subfactions don't have any ships either.

Wow! I never realized that. Han Solo, Wedge Antilles, Darth Vader, Soontir Fel, Talonbane Cobra, and Dengar. Are these really the only PS 9 pilots?

Other than Xizor with his Z squad. For me the Starviper is (should be) the interceptor of the scum faction.

And there is your problem. You are trying to fly an Interceptor instead of a StarViper. I love the PS 1 as a blocker.

Okay okay... But then what does Scum have? They have the much pricier yet nor as capable interceptor. Or the much MUCH. pricier wannabe blocker compared to the A-Wing, which is in reality the best blocker in the game because it has a better dial. And don't tell me 3 attack dice. That's not something a blocker really needs!

Ah, and they have the overpriced wannabe Tie fighter Scyk. Or the less capable A-Wing again...

Coming back to the Viper. So we are not supposed to expect an interceptor style ship if we have something with 3 attack 3 agility, boost and barrel roll? Well then screw it, nobody is going to fly it because they sure don't have any other ship as close to an interceptor. And arc-dodging aces are needed in any faction really!

Scum won't get that many PS 8 or 9 pilots. That's part of what Scum is. There needs to be something else.

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

I do think it could use more green moves and the generics can be a little cheaper. Otherwise, it's fine.

Not to mention that Scum will already have its second skill 9 pilot. All the factions have only 2 skill 9 pilots. The new subfactions don't have any but then again the new subfactions don't have any ships either.

Yes but scum, just like rebels have them on the sh*tty 5 hp no mobility no autothrusters ship like Rebels. And on the nerfed PWT ship! Just that they have less alternatives!

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

You can't.

Boostwing, acewing, name it as you wish, the point stays the same.

I have to disagree, at least with regards to the top players. The MVP of Nathan Eide's squad at Worlds was a 15 point A-wings that blocked and attacked targets of opportunity. Aaron Bonar was the #2 swiss seed and made it to top 8, and he was flying three tactician K-wings, which are incredibly position dependent and have no way to reposition and attack. For that matter, Paul Heaver's only ship with a PS above 2 was usually executing green maneuvers and taking focus actions*, so it's not like he was depending on this vaunted "boost-wing" of yours either.

Now, the vast majority of the X-wing playerbase does not have the same level of skill those guys do. But it's incorrect to say that it's impossible to compete without a hypermobile Ace.

Rebel aces will go green whenever possible for shield regen, but that does not mean they. Are not high PS arc-dodgers if necessary!

It's a B-Wing that has 2 more Agi and can boost (can equip Autothrusters) for 3 more points, -1 PS and 3 less hits. Thats how you fly em

Arc-dodging, Agi 3, high attack aces are the Empire's thing. Rebels dun have those either.

That being said, Dengar may be the monster you are looking for - we know he can at least have all 3 green at the cost of 1 pt by equipping an Unhinged Astromech. Can't run AT but has AG 2, PWT and 9 hull+shields.

It's a B-Wing that has 2 more Agi and can boost (can equip Autothrusters) for 3 more points, -1 PS and 3 less hits. Thats how you fly em

Arc-dodging, Agi 3, high attack aces are the Empire's thing. Rebels dun have those either.

That being said, Dengar may be the monster you are looking for - we know he can at least have all 3 green at the cost of 1 pt by equipping an Unhinged Astromech. Can't run AT but has AG 2, PWT and 9 hull+shields.

Corran Horn is not a 3 Agi, high PS, high attack ace??? He adds the flexibility to just tank up and regen to that, but he definitely can do arc-dodging just as well!

Dengar would be humongous if he had come out some a year earlier when Turretwing was the thing to play. Right now he will just die to TLTs and Crackshots. He can do arc-dodging to some extent however, which is fine. But bring him down to half and get 25+ points... Yup thats juicy.

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

You can't.

Boostwing, acewing, name it as you wish, the point stays the same.

Not every ship needs to be at PS 9. You can win with only one high PS ace.

Arcdodger needs it.

and jouster are dead meat now.

Starviper Dial is pretty good - one of the better dials in the game.

It doesn't need green turns, because it's not a push the limit interceptorclone.

It's cost is probably a little bit high for the generics - but acceptable for the elites. Guri is just fine, even at P.S. 5.
Xizor's ability is the trap - you either build for it, or you mostly ignore it. In lists meant to take advantage of his ability - he can be a mean endgame ship. Otherwise, with VI he can hunt aces, and autothrusters helps deal with turrets.

It's a toolbox fighter, with lots of configurations thanks to virago - SensorJammer + AT is a nightmare for TLTs. adrenaline rush / lightning reflexes FCS + Guri is an anti-stress fighter. (TL + Focus without needing actions)

It's real drawbacks are in the cost + action economy of the generics. Guri + Xizor can use virago / ept to deal with that problem, and the extra cost isn't such an issue - but the generics can't use virago and don't have ept access. Really - you need an alternate modification and a couple other pilots to make the ship as a whole shine. Say something like...

"Variable Geometric Targetting" (modification)
2 points. - Starviper only.
When you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may acquire a target lock on an enemy ship inside of your firing arc.

And then add a couple pilots... (All kinds of crazy options)
P.S. 3 You may perform a primary weapon attack before you reveal your maneuver dial, if you do, receive a weapons disabled token.
P.S. 8 The first time you receive a stress token each round, you may regain a shield token, up to your shield value.

This is one ship I wonder what happened in playtesting. The ship is so badly overcosted, there's no fix other than just reprinting the cards at four points less.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. It's one of a handful of ships that natively has both boost and barrel roll -- the TIE Interceptor and StarViper are the only ones. You could do a neat title or mod that essentially allows it to do one of those as a free action every turn. That's a lot of free mobility. I'm sure that's not the only thing you could do, but I think there are innovative ways of making it more viable* without just changing its cost.

*I do not mean to say it isn't viable, but that it will be easier to choose it when list building because it will do something neat, like how the TIE Defender will be.

You could easily make a fix for both Starvipers and non-PTL Interceptors with a mod that required both of those actions in the bar.

"At the beginning of the combat phase, if you are unstressed, acquire a focus token."

This would create two distinctly different Interceptor builds, make Alphas viable and Phennir a very viable alternative to Fel.

In my experience, and I fly the Viper every week, is that not every ship needs to use Push the Limit.

Guri with Predator, when flown aggressively, gets her focus token from her ability, reroll/s from Predator and her normal action. That is effectively three actions, you don't need four. Throw in Sensor Jammer or Adv.Sensors and you have more shenanigans.

I agree however that the generics suffer, much in the way that the generic E-wings and X wings (both T-65 / T-70 versions) and just don't see table time but given that the ship was quite rare anyway, I don't mind that thematically.

There is a misconception about what the Viper is meant to be and I think the closest thing to it is NOT the TIE Interceptor or A-Wing, but the T-70 X wing. It is a strong jouster and turret beater which eventually turns into a late game monster.

Whilst I have said this before, if the Illicit and sensor slot was standard and the Virago title awarded an evade token whenever you performed a target lock action or received a target lock, then this thing would be beast and we would be having a very different conversation right now. Imagine that, a PS7 Guri with Adv.Sensors, perform a target lock, receive an evade token, ram into you to deny movement/shots back, receive a focus token. . .

There is a misconception about what the Viper is meant to be and I think the closest thing to it is NOT the TIE Interceptor or A-Wing, but the T-70 X wing. It is a strong jouster and turret beater which eventually turns into a late game monster.

Black sun enforcer

35 points

PS1

4 hull

1 shield

3 attacks

3 agility

no upgrade slots whatsever

Blue squadron

24 points

3 hull

3 shields

3 attacks

2 agility

astromech slot

I will not dare call it a fair trade.

And once again, how many times we've seen not a regen-Poe but generics?

UNLIKELY.

because a jouster needs a huge PS to not be out-dodged.

and yeah, Imagine Poe is a PS7.

suddenly he is not an auto-choice.

???

Poor starviper is not a T-70, can't abuse regen, has completely sucky hull-shield ratio and an extra agility does nothing to compensate for that.

and yeah, want some more fun?

T-70 has more K-style turns, more greens.

You do have to remember that Scum and Villainy weren't released straight away, they were released later in the waves, so are always going to be behind the 8 ball. The most wanted core pack for S&V was fantastic as an entry and a catch up to the rebels and imperial who start with ships in the core set, as well as having the first few waves of expansions dedicated to them. Wave 8 is really helping them catch up, With the punishing one and Mist Hunter being released. The Punishing one looks sick and will be the equivalent of the TY-2400 and the Firespray-31 for Rebels and Imperial respectively.

And what was said here is round-a-bout what I was thinking, and what scum seem to be. Premium pilots come at a price, its makes perfect sense as Bounty hunters.

I think they work well with low PS efficiency.

Scum won't get that many PS 8 or 9 pilots. That's part of what Scum is.

This is what the designers said at first, but then they turned around and gave us Talonbane Cobra at PS 9 and Dengar at PS 9. Also, we've got Serissu and Boba Fett at PS 8. But we do have an abundance of PS 7s with Kavil, Bossk, Zuckuss, Tel (Jumpmaster), Dace Bonearm, N'dru Suhlak, Xizor, and Kath Scarlet.

EDIT: What I believe the designers actually said was that Scum ships will pay a premium for high pilot skill. I'm not sure if I remember that quote exactly, but that's the gist of what they said.

Scum pay premium for everything I presume o_O
because generics still cost as GW plastic.

adrenaline rush / lightning reflexes FCS + Guri is an anti-stress fighter. (TL + Focus without needing actions)

Thanks for sharing.

Guri isn't bad if you can ignore the mid level PS.

You can't.

Boostwing, acewing, name it as you wish, the point stays the same.

You can... bring a Torkil Mux to the game

now please read his ability. he doesn't force them ps0 at activation. only the combat phase

???

he sucks, being just a whisper-killer

Win your games.

Glad we got that out of the way

Looking forward to the results of your local Store Championship. What date is that again? Would be interested in the full report of how the generic Star Vipers fared.

The Starviper does not need help, just because a ship does not see a lot of competitive play does not mean it is broken

The Starviper does not need help, just because a ship does not see a lot of competitive play does not mean it is broken

Do you see a lot of Starviper play in your group? I think I have seen them played a handful of times in the last year.

There is a misconception about what the Viper is meant to be and I think the closest thing to it is NOT the TIE Interceptor or A-Wing, but the T-70 X wing. It is a strong jouster and turret beater which eventually turns into a late game monster.

Black sun enforcer

35 points

PS1

4 hull

1 shield

3 attacks

3 agility

no upgrade slots whatsever

Blue squadron

24 points

3 hull

3 shields

3 attacks

2 agility

astromech slot

I will not dare call it a fair trade.

And once again, how many times we've seen not a regen-Poe but generics?

UNLIKELY.

because a jouster needs a huge PS to not be out-dodged.

and yeah, Imagine Poe is a PS7.

suddenly he is not an auto-choice.

???

Poor starviper is not a T-70, can't abuse regen, has completely sucky hull-shield ratio and an extra agility does nothing to compensate for that.

and yeah, want some more fun?

T-70 has more K-style turns, more greens.

Agility 3 and both Boost and Barrel Roll. A 1 hard turn. That's not too bad really. To have a system and illicit upgrade on one ship only is not ideal but there are worse things to have.

It would not be so bad if the Viper had at least one high skill pilot with a useful ability. Guri at PS8-9 would be absolutely mixing it up with the best for example. The E-Wing also has only Corran, but that's enough to keep it relevant although on the E-Wing more pilots would be welcome as well!)

I think it's wrong to say that it's intended as a Jouster. It does not have the durability to do that, and they got the Kihraxz to do this job. It has Boost/Barrel and It could be a very good arc dodger if it only had decent high PS pilots.

Why would it not be intended as an arc-dodger, why would scum for some weird reason not be supposed to have this type of ships? I really can't understand the people stating this because the simple fact that it is a Boost/Barrel 3 agi ship screams arc-dodge.

Well yea, it's made to dodge arcs (ship actions and stats), but it has terrible pilots for that purpose. The Starviper, and the M3A, were created when they were feeling very conservative about how good the new S&V ships should be.

What do Starvipers need? Action efficiency and higher PS.