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you cant fix ugly.....

I bought one, my friends use it when they play scum, its a cool looking ship and we just play for funzies anyways

Xizor can get PS9 but then only gets one action, and when he needs to pull some hard maneuvers, his Posse can't follow him anymore and his Pilot ability becomes totally useless.

Umm.....I don't get this. I've flown a lot of Xizor with Z-95's. I give Xizor FCS and VI. He's got PS 9 and the action economy comes from the free TL. It's not really that hard to stay close to at least one of those Z-95's. You fly them in a loose grouping. Also, I found Xizor usually prefers the 1 hard turn as opposed to the S-loop.

Prince Xizor (31)Veteran Instincts (1)Fire-Control System (2)Autothrusters (2)Virago (1)Total: 37View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This is the build, right?

I mean let's compare it to what other aces offer. at similar cost

35 point Soontir is harder to hit and has a much better pilot ability plus even better action economy and dial at cheaper natural ps 9. Can also Boost/Barrel roll if necessary. Less HP and a bit more green dice dependent though.

35-37 point Vader has better action economy, can Boost/Barrel roll if necessary as a natural PS9. Can get to PS11 if you want and has slightly better firepower with ATC. Can turtle well but no Autothrusters.

48 Point Corran can Boost/Barrel roll and turtle really well. His firepower is similar with FCS except for the mighty double Tap. Lower PS, much higher price and no Autothrusters are the disadvantages. But then R2-D2 makes up for it all with its shield regen shenanigans.

37-39 point Poe has more hitpoints, and depending on builds, can not boost and focus or has lower PS. However he does almost always take shield regen which makes him very durable. His Pilot Ability is again much better than Xizor's. Firepower depends on the build for him.

There are of course more "aces" like Miranda for the Rebels and a wide array of other imperial ones that can reach PS8-10. We can also begin to watch at Tie Defendersbecause of the fix.

But the most successful at the moment are probably the above.

Xizor does not compare awfully to them, but generally lacks a bit in comparison to them. Especially the Pilot ability is often useless because even if you get to use it that means your allies are dying faster. And no Boost/Barrel roll can be a big disadvantage in direct duels.

These have to be, after all, the reasons why these ships are constantly played and Xizor is not!

So, Xizor isn't as broken as some other ships. Does that mean he isn't good? I've used him to great effect. It almost seems if something can't be abused then it is no good.

Well yea, it's made to dodge arcs (ship actions and stats), but it has terrible pilots for that purpose. The Starviper, and the M3A, were created when they were feeling very conservative about how good the new S&V ships should be.

What do Starvipers need? Action efficiency and higher PS.

That's what you want them to be. Honestly, they are pretty nice blockers. Even Guri. So, the PS is just about right.

I think a Starviper can be an arc dodger by way of choosing moves that almost just throw you past and enemy's arc an reward an aggressive approach to the fight. It likes to take a step to the side when you turn completely around. The problem I think is it's action economy and ability to be ripped to shreds by fickle greens. Giving it access to an evade would solve that just fine and would allow it to get rowdy or give a title that gives a -2 cost to all Modifications. Allowing that sweet 25 point blocker you always wanted with thrusters to keep it alive longer enough to get to range TO block and then allowing the higher PS one to throw on a shield upgrade or stealth device at a premium.

The starviper does not need, nor is it receiving help. It's a matter of figuring out how to fly it.

I'll bet you a small ship blister + shipping that you're drastically wrong.

Even give you 2:1 odds for a 2-year window. Or, rather, May 17, 2017 for fun!

Although "receiving help" is probably a little too open-to-interpretation to support a legit pact. Autothrusters didn't come with an Imperial ship, and are available to every faction, but they were certainly designed and received as "help" for the Squint. Vipers may not get a title or ship-specific upgrade, but they are most definitely going to benefit from a future release deliberately targeted at them.

you cant fix ugly.....

I even fixed an E-wing model!

so fixing a ship that has a beautiful model like Starviper just comes up to making it remotely competitive.

Xizor can get PS9 but then only gets one action, and when he needs to pull some hard maneuvers, his Posse can't follow him anymore and his Pilot ability becomes totally useless.

Umm.....I don't get this. I've flown a lot of Xizor with Z-95's. I give Xizor FCS and VI. He's got PS 9 and the action economy comes from the free TL. It's not really that hard to stay close to at least one of those Z-95's. You fly them in a loose grouping. Also, I found Xizor usually prefers the 1 hard turn as opposed to the S-loop.

Prince Xizor (31)Veteran Instincts (1)Fire-Control System (2)Autothrusters (2)Virago (1)Total: 37View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This is the build, right?

I mean let's compare it to what other aces offer. at similar cost

35 point Soontir is harder to hit and has a much better pilot ability plus even better action economy and dial at cheaper natural ps 9. Can also Boost/Barrel roll if necessary. Less HP and a bit more green dice dependent though.

35-37 point Vader has better action economy, can Boost/Barrel roll if necessary as a natural PS9. Can get to PS11 if you want and has slightly better firepower with ATC. Can turtle well but no Autothrusters.

48 Point Corran can Boost/Barrel roll and turtle really well. His firepower is similar with FCS except for the mighty double Tap. Lower PS, much higher price and no Autothrusters are the disadvantages. But then R2-D2 makes up for it all with its shield regen shenanigans.

37-39 point Poe has more hitpoints, and depending on builds, can not boost and focus or has lower PS. However he does almost always take shield regen which makes him very durable. His Pilot Ability is again much better than Xizor's. Firepower depends on the build for him.

There are of course more "aces" like Miranda for the Rebels and a wide array of other imperial ones that can reach PS8-10. We can also begin to watch at Tie Defendersbecause of the fix.

But the most successful at the moment are probably the above.

Xizor does not compare awfully to them, but generally lacks a bit in comparison to them. Especially the Pilot ability is often useless because even if you get to use it that means your allies are dying faster. And no Boost/Barrel roll can be a big disadvantage in direct duels.

These have to be, after all, the reasons why these ships are constantly played and Xizor is not!

So, Xizor isn't as broken as some other ships. Does that mean he isn't good? I've used him to great effect. It almost seems if something can't be abused then it is no good.

When it often competes against the aforementioned 'can be abused' (in your opinion) ships then yes. Not as good as them means not good enough.

YMMV depending on local meta OFC, but here playing against a list without Poe, Corran, Vader, Soontir or Carnor is exceedingly rare. Fielding Xizor in these conditions is an uphill battle from the get-go.

Xizor can get PS9 but then only gets one action, and when he needs to pull some hard maneuvers, his Posse can't follow him anymore and his Pilot ability becomes totally useless.

Umm.....I don't get this. I've flown a lot of Xizor with Z-95's. I give Xizor FCS and VI. He's got PS 9 and the action economy comes from the free TL. It's not really that hard to stay close to at least one of those Z-95's. You fly them in a loose grouping. Also, I found Xizor usually prefers the 1 hard turn as opposed to the S-loop.

Prince Xizor (31)Veteran Instincts (1)Fire-Control System (2)Autothrusters (2)Virago (1)Total: 37View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This is the build, right?

I mean let's compare it to what other aces offer. at similar cost

35 point Soontir is harder to hit and has a much better pilot ability plus even better action economy and dial at cheaper natural ps 9. Can also Boost/Barrel roll if necessary. Less HP and a bit more green dice dependent though.

35-37 point Vader has better action economy, can Boost/Barrel roll if necessary as a natural PS9. Can get to PS11 if you want and has slightly better firepower with ATC. Can turtle well but no Autothrusters.

48 Point Corran can Boost/Barrel roll and turtle really well. His firepower is similar with FCS except for the mighty double Tap. Lower PS, much higher price and no Autothrusters are the disadvantages. But then R2-D2 makes up for it all with its shield regen shenanigans.

37-39 point Poe has more hitpoints, and depending on builds, can not boost and focus or has lower PS. However he does almost always take shield regen which makes him very durable. His Pilot Ability is again much better than Xizor's. Firepower depends on the build for him.

There are of course more "aces" like Miranda for the Rebels and a wide array of other imperial ones that can reach PS8-10. We can also begin to watch at Tie Defendersbecause of the fix.

But the most successful at the moment are probably the above.

Xizor does not compare awfully to them, but generally lacks a bit in comparison to them. Especially the Pilot ability is often useless because even if you get to use it that means your allies are dying faster. And no Boost/Barrel roll can be a big disadvantage in direct duels.

These have to be, after all, the reasons why these ships are constantly played and Xizor is not!

So, Xizor isn't as broken as some other ships. Does that mean he isn't good? I've used him to great effect. It almost seems if something can't be abused then it is no good.

I think that's turning around the facts quite a lot.

Not every ship that is competitive and wins tournaments is broken. Soontir or Poe are not broken, you can beat them in many ways. But they are very solid choices in listbuilding. Xizor and also Guri compared to that are lacking things that competitive ace ships have. And there are quite a lot of competitive ships around, so FFG does not seem to have any problems with what you call "abuse".

Well yea, it's made to dodge arcs (ship actions and stats), but it has terrible pilots for that purpose. The Starviper, and the M3A, were created when they were feeling very conservative about how good the new S&V ships should be.

What do Starvipers need? Action efficiency and higher PS.

That's what you want them to be. Honestly, they are pretty nice blockers. Even Guri. So, the PS is just about right.

Yea, great blockers for 25pts...or you can get 2 Banana Pirates and block even more.

Or two Tie fighters or for a bit more two M3-As or two A-Wings or two Tie/FOs.

But 3 Atk. With great Agility and action options.

If it works for you great, I don't like throwing at minimum 25% of my list (a delicate part of it too) into a potential block.

But 3 Atk. With great Agility and action options.

blocker

needs

no

attacks what'sover

Starviper is too expensive for that

If it works for you great, I don't like throwing at minimum 25% of my list (a delicate part of it too) into a potential block.

Well, you don't say, hmm, I have 25 points, I really need a blocker! Gonna grab me the black sun enforcer! Rather the fact that it makes an excellent blocker is a bonus perk. In addition to its decent attack profile and decent defenses, it can block like a champ! I see it as having more tools in the toolbox so to speak.

One thing I've noticed about the Star Viper after playing with it some more, is that does really well 1v1 against a lot of stuff, even stuff with higher PS. In fact, 2 vipers, regardless of pilot skill and kill any single ace in the game. Now granted, that's not a fair fight, but you don't win by trying to set up fair fights. So I think there's some potential there. 2 Vipers + something strong enough and tempting enough of a target to dish out lots of punishment before it goes to help get that favourable end-game scenario where you have those 2 vipers vs a fraction of the enemy force. I'm thinking YV-666 or IG88 will fit the bill...

So why does every ship in the game need a fix?

I am still against the Tie Advance fix as it was an experimental ship and people still do not play it. Not every ship needs a fix.

If it works for you great, I don't like throwing at minimum 25% of my list (a delicate part of it too) into a potential block.

Well, you don't say, hmm, I have 25 points, I really need a blocker! Gonna grab me the black sun enforcer! Rather the fact that it makes an excellent blocker is a bonus perk. In addition to its decent attack profile and decent defenses, it can block like a champ! I see it as having more tools in the toolbox so to speak.

One thing I've noticed about the Star Viper after playing with it some more, is that does really well 1v1 against a lot of stuff, even stuff with higher PS. In fact, 2 vipers, regardless of pilot skill and kill any single ace in the game. Now granted, that's not a fair fight, but you don't win by trying to set up fair fights. So I think there's some potential there. 2 Vipers + something strong enough and tempting enough of a target to dish out lots of punishment before it goes to help get that favourable end-game scenario where you have those 2 vipers vs a fraction of the enemy force. I'm thinking YV-666 or IG88 will fit the bill...

Have any reports from Store Championships or Regionals where you have flown Starvipers to victory? Lists from both sides would be nice as well.

So why does every ship in the game need a fix?

I am still against the Tie Advance fix as it was an experimental ship and people still do not play it. Not every ship needs a fix.

Have any reports from Store Championships or Regionals where you have flown Starvipers to victory? Lists from both sides would be nice as well.

I don't really understand why you are asking. I've never flown scum at any significant tourney since I prefer Imperials. I really like scum though, and use them from time to time. The star viper is one of my favourite scum ships and I've used all of the different pilots and I tried to word my post in a way to make suggestions on what could work based on my experiences. If the only thing that matters is how many tourneys a list has won, well, I think you will have a tough time finding a new and interesting build. While I don't have any delusions that the viper is a 'top tier' ship, I think its pretty good and trying to come up with a list that plays to its strengths is the best way to get the most out of it, especially if I or someone else does want to run it competitively. But if no one is interested in exploring what the viper has to offer and finding an effective build, well that's okay---I can accomplish that else where

So why does every ship in the game need a fix?

I am still against the Tie Advance fix as it was an experimental ship and people still do not play it. Not every ship needs a fix.

....

What?

TIE Advance gets plenty of table time, especially Vader (and I'd argue nearly all the rest deserve more table time than they're currently getting).

And it needed a fix. It wasn't just that it was "difficult to fly" like I'd say the StarViper is, the TIE Advanced in its previous state was an absolute joke.