I used Animate Weapons yesterday and managed to hit 2 out of 4 heros, 1 killed himself (8 health) , 1 took 10 wounds (16 Heath).

I will be able to buy another 2 points of treachery at the end of this dungeon and wondered if Dance of the Monkey is worth the extra cost, given it only does 2 wounds, and lets the heros run for it, but it stops them attacking and zero's the amour. I've never used Dance before so wondered how other OL's had found it working?

Mordak said:

It doesn't do any wounds.
The wound tokens placed are nothing to do with wounds but are convenient markers for how many turns have passed. Read up monkey stuff carefully.

You can't buy two points of treachery in a single week.

Personally I think DotMG is a waste of time. You need incompetent heroes for it to be worth playing - firstly you need to have 25 threat, which indicates significant time spent in dungeon. Secondly you still need to have enough monsters able to do enough damage to get some worthwhile kills even after you successfully get it off.
Besides which, there are infinitely better things to spend that much trap treachery on...

It also has no effect (RAW*) in outdoor encounters anyway.

*The card says it affects heroes 'in the dungeon'. There are conflicting views on whether this should be taken literally (ie, heroes outdoors are not in a dungeon so are unaffected). The strongest argument for it still being useable was the change made in the german version of descent, which didn't mention dungeon at all. However the german version is apparently riddled with translation errors and cannot reasonably be taken ahead of the english version IMO.
OTOH, if you can use it outdoors then it makes encounters utterly ridiculous. A couple of Event treachery for Dangers and 3-4 heroes will be turned into monkeys as soon as the Ol has a turn. He then has all his minions, + reinforcements + spawns able to hack at armourless monkeys who are unable to use shields, special armour etc.
Wind Pact, already possibly the single most important skill, becomes a 100% necessity (which I don't think is a good thing).

Granted I can buy 1 more point this week, giving me 3 and 1 more next week giving me 4 for traps. I assumed the card was for use indoors only anyway.

I think that Animate Weapons + Gluttony could work if they are short on potions, and not in a good position to get to town.

Is there really an argument for "in dungeon" cards when used in outdoor Encounters? Considering these cards were written before outdoor encounters existed, I think it's pretty safe to say "in dungeon" applies to outdoor encounters as well. At least they are going to at my group, or the player that argues against it is gonna get a boot to the face...

-shnar

shnar said:

Ok, one time only reply...

Indisputably, as written, they work only in dungeons. Changing that might, repeat might, be reasonable - purely because, as you say, when they were written there was only 'in dungeon' possibilities.
OTOH there are only two such cards - Dance of the Monkey God and Animate Weapons. Both have the capacity to significantly cripple any encounter in which they are played, possibly even resulting in Total party kills (by mid silver most heroes can one-shot themselves, or very close to). So why not just play it exactly as written?
In a normal dungeon they are effective (if you can get them off) but not gamebreakers. Heroes come back if they die, can heal etc. In encounters death is permanent. Having party-killer cards removes any interest or point in Lt encounters.
To me, it is a fortunate coincidence that they can't be played in encounters. Given how many other cards/skills/hero abilities are changed or removed for RtL I find it extremely significant that these two cards have not been changed or modified. ...So much so that any moron who suggested that they should be allowed in outdoor encounters might just get the metaphorical boot up the arse on the way out the metaphorical door. (not at all seriously! just suggesting that you haven't thought things through with your boot to the face comment, which I'm sure was also in jest )

The real question we need to answer before this discussion can provide a useful conclusion is "If the guy in question is a total arseface and you've only got time for one boot, where does it go?"

And since I should probably contribute something meaningful...

Just looking at the cards I'd probably go with Animate Weapons and Dark Charm. The first will kill or weaken several heros and the second can easily finish someone off.

Though you can always use one the first time and another the second, and see how they work out. There are probably going to be times when it's not worth it to pick either of them, such as in Lieutenant encounters where you plan to flee and don't start with any extra threat. Other times you may be better off pulling just Animate Weapons and a Danger to fuel them with.

The lesson, heroes, is to always get Wind Pact before your fighting any lieutenants with 2 Treachery.

I could see Dance working well in a Dungeon with Silver Hellhounds using breath weapons to hit multiple Hero's at once against Hero's with 0 armour, but I think that as the Hero's are able to dish out more and more damage Animate Weapons is better + that still allows another 2 points of treachery traps (assume you have bought the max for the spider queen). Also I bought Into my Parlour upgrade at the start of the game, so I always start the 1st Dungeon level with Animate Weapons ready, just need the threat to play it. I had Dark Charm as well last dungeon, but the Hero rolled a blank, and on Animate Weapons 2 of them rolled blanks. Ah well. just have to kill them the hard way.

Or to save Disarm Feat Cards from that point in time on.

See when 1 person says you can use them in Lt encounters, and someone else says you can't it can be a problem.

I hope they bring out a new FAQ soon, I think that Animate Weapons could be really bad for the Hero's, in a Lt encounter.

Can you imagine Slaggorath attacking from 3 trails away, then running back home, then attacking again, with Animate Weapons every time, and Silver Master Bane Spiders hitting them as well, sounds great, but I'm not sure the Hero's could take it.

I think that they should be restricted to Dungeon Levels, unless anyone can make a case for it being otherwise.