With enough time elapsed since their release, has stacking ordinance made a difference in game play?

Playing casually, loading up one bomber and trying to take out bigger ships is just fun. Having a punisher drop a cluster poop for other ships to run through is just fun. Making Fat Han loose some weight on a cluster missile diet is extremely satisfying, but it works....once.

The game is primarily space arena/dogfight, there is no "real" reason for bombing. There is use in trying to take out specific formations or tactical situations, but the game does not reward that. It is one list has to be effective versus every other list every time. In epic play I can see bomb/missile/torpedos draw, but loading up 1 bomber/punisher/k-wing is about half of an epic capital ship.

With K-wing and Punisher there are so many fun slots I can put on them. That is great, but they still cost points. If I am only going to carry one missile or bomb anyway, why not put it on a more versatile ship?

No general said hey we can only bring up these empty B-52s, go ahead and put them in the air. It just doesn't make sense.

FFG tried to make a fix with the "Extra Munitions" as sort of a half price 2nd ordinance which made it worth paying for one big ordinance but all in all you were still paying probably an extra 7 or 8 for something you expect a bomber to be able to do.

Has anyone seen an increase use of ordinance since the "Extra Munitions" fix, or is ordinance still too expensive to effectively use in overall lists.

When Darth/TIE-adv was the only ship that could have missiles, missiles were sooooo powerful. It just seems now ordinance is too point heavy for their cost even with the advent of the "Extra Munitions".

Now if FFG in the future makes a card called "fully loaded" still as a high cost, and makes it more economical overall to do such. Then I can see ordinance specifically on bombers/K-wings, getting more use.

Plasma baby. It's all about the plasma. It's a cheap and effective torpedo that combined with EM gives TIE Bombers and K-Wings real ordnance punch.

And before the flame monkeys jump on me and say it only gives you two shots consider that it's not real probable that anything short of an ace makes more than two effective attacks per game. At least in my limited experience.

ner

literally only Redline and Tie bombers (homing missiles + seismics)

they're not going to strike gold until guidance chips (inq tie, jumpmaster) and even then you won't even ordnance except on ships that can take munitions

if guidance chips does the whole focus --> hit modifier that ordnance lacks outside protons, then REdline will become the new HLC defender (and it will be glorious)

I've used Tie Bombers before the fix and am loving the Extra Munitions. I've been very effective with 4 x Tie Bombers. I win more games than I lose. Extra Munitions gives them substantial upgrades. I can go with EM and Homing Missiles to really boost them. Once Long Range Sensors comes out, it will just be even better. I also throw on Seismic Charges. You'd be surprised how often people forget about them. I've managed to have Poe land on 3 of them at one time...right after I K-turned with TL to finish him off in one round.

I have seen other people use ordnance more. There is a guy who uses Horton and Dutch with TLT's and Nera with Marksman, EM and Proton Torps. Dutch gives the free TL and Nera blasts away. They can usually kill a ship a turn until the Torps are gone. It's actually pretty brutal.

Tie Punishers have been popular and people do use at least a lot of Bombs lately.

No, no I have not. A slight increase, and I've seen the quad AC Tempest, quad Cluster Missile list, but no ordnance based lists. Maybe an extra missile on an A-Wing or something but no loaded Punishers or Ordnance K-Wings since release. It was tried early on but determined to not actually be good and like half of the players in my area are flying the same dumb copy and paste Poe and Miranda list with like a Y-Wing or something.

I mean, there is this crazy mofo in my area that doesn't show up often, but when he does he ends up bringing 3 Bombers. He's done this pre-Phantom nerf and almost pulled out wins and such but besides for him and the 3x Cutlass Squadron list I flew once with 12 mines/Conner Nets and 3 AC's, there has been no serious use of ordnance. One guy would use Deathrain as a Vader/Soontir style ace and eventually stopped a few weeks after release, seemingly preferring to use an actually good Acewing ship.

I play enough at a league light that I have seen it experimented with much more than it has been in the past, but its presence in tournaments hasn't changed.

The PunDictor is a dud and the K-Wing is all about the bombs, so nope, haven't seen an increase - yet.

I don't face all the typical net lists but i do see many of them and I have enjoyed some success with bombs and ordnance and I've seen others doing alright too. Sure they ain't TLT spam but what is? And it's not across the spectrum but certain ships and pilots do pretty well IMO.. especially Ks the named punishers and firespray pilots among others. It threatens to be too good if ffg just opened the flood gates.

I gave my new Punisher a shot this weekend, and I came away thinking that if anything I should have put one more piece of ordnance on her. This is a game that is all about risk and reward. I think that really gets highlighted when you are using a bomber type fighter. When to use it, make sure it survives to unload, and maximizing it once it has fired off all its big guns are things that you have to consider.

I think that this kind of play is just too risky for the min/maxing that rules the competitive part of this game. I, for one, play this game for the same reasons that I play all games: for fun. I totally respect those who take this game seriously and want to play competitively, but I like to try out new ships and strategies I haven't used before. I'm not going to let that kind of sentiment dissuade me from trying out something fun and different.

No we tried them a few times then went back to older ships they just weren't that impressive sadly, glad I didn't pick up more than one of each.

I took a prox mine on Oicunn for my regional list this year. Used it to catch out people trying to avoid his bump by flying over him. Great fun. Helped end a Corran in the final.

Bump Corran. He flies into me. Next turn I bump him, trig dauntless, drop a mine, take shield off of him, he flies straight over and lose 2 shield. Gunner and Vader crew take care of the rest.

I have seen a small increase, nothing major.

I'm thinking of trying the emon bomb launched list tomorrow, does that count as an increase?

Played a loaded up Miranda last night and she did very well against a Decimator and two TIEs. First time I had ever played against a VT-49 and was worried about all that hull but plasma torps and cluster missiles ate right through it.

Not competitively. I've played around with ordnance a lot. I always envision a scene from Robotech where the mechs open their missile bays and launch dozens of missiles at the enemy. It's a beautiful scene. Alas, in X-wing, the price is just not worth it. You can't survive long enough to use a fully loaded ship and if you just want to use a missile twice, the Tie Bomber is perfect for the job and costs a lot less. The extra point cost just for the new ships, plus adding the ordnance, means too many sacrifices for a competitive list.

For casual play, my group messes around with it from time to time, but usually a fully loaded bomber is a huge target and dies quickly.

From my experience, ordnance is still broken. It would be interesting to go through all the Nationals and Worlds top 16 or 32 and see if anyone used a bomber.

I have never, ever since ordinance used in the game of X-wing ...

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Ordnance, on the other hand ... meh ... still not so much ...

Ordnance is still a big waste points. The ordnance-focused ships (Redline, Deathrain, Azzameen, etc) are worse, because they become point sinks for ineffecient mechanics, compounding their inefficiency rather than overcoming them. Use of ordnance is fundamentally flawed at a core design level and FFG would rather skirt around the edges of a fix (and sell you more subpar ships) than invoke a fundamental change to how they work to actually make it both worthwhile and strategic. Until that happens, none of these bandaids will accomplish much.

Bombers and Punishers will see alot more field once the Tractor Beam will come out.
Especially those low-ps ones, that will love to shoot at a target with a reduced agility.

The other day I fielded Vessery with Tie/D, a Bomber with a Tie Shuttle and Fleet Officer and a Punisher loaded with Cluster Missiles, Homing Missiles and EM.

Devastating. Can't wait to get my hands on Imperial Veterans.agility.

*** EDIT*** Double post

I've been using Deathrain to rain down miney death to good effect. Emmon briefly... Sabine definitely! Crackshot is what ordinance should have been: modifications to basic attacks & cheap!

Soon we can have infinite crackshot a and missiles! Oh what a day that will be.

I've been using ordnance heavy Tie Bombers and K-wings lists and have had a lot of fun. As my little gaming group plays 150 points now I have added a Tie Punisher as well, lots of fun.

Bombs and missiles just need patience to play and you need to accept that sometimes they just won't work. EM and MF together gives you a better chance of getting more bang for your points.

Soon we will see 4x tempests with clusters and accuracy correctors, to take down Ghost in one round

You just have to put so much into them for a 1 trick pony that may not even work. You have to have the pilot such as Redline or Nera Dantiels upgrades such as Deadeye and by the time it is all said and done you would have spent more points on upgrade instead of another TIE Fighter /Z-95 Headhunter. Generraly the point cap on all ordnance is 12 because it is just simply better to get another ship for your opponent to destroy than to load up another ship that doesn't gain any defensive value in terms of MOV. If MOV wasn't such a big thing or discarded upgrades didn't count to MOV then maybe you would see more torpedo and missile secondary weapons.

Tried a Warden K-wing with Connor Nets, Prox mines, EM, Bombadier and A-Slam at a small 'local' 3 game event a few months ago (along with TLT 3PO Miranda and an Ion Stresshog).

It was fun, but even in games where I dropped every bomb, the Prox mines just weren't reliable enough.

I lost the last game to B-Wings when my opponent rolled hit, eye, blank on both prox mine hits. Miranda just couldn't push enough damage through with my terrible dice and I made a few too many mistakes to recover from.

If you could modify Prox Mine and Cluster Mines that'd be great.

Not at all.

I am guilty of not trying out ordinance myself lately. So busy when it comes time to make a list I usually have 10 minutes before I have to be at game store. So I use old tried and true lists.