Hello all.

While bored at work I had an Idea pop into my head, we often read in the lore about Heretical humans turning to other gods, or Philosophies , such as the Chaos gods or the tau greeter good. But I was wondering. What If it was the other way around. Now I was thinking about doing a Ordo Xeno's Campaign involving Tau, but it made me wonder. What If by some Circumstance a Tau , started worshiping the Emperor. I mean out of the millions of xeno's out there it has to be a possibility that some might worship the emperor.

Then what sort of conflict of interest does that start, Xeno's are bad a must be put to death, but here you have a Tau worshiping the emperor and his teaching following the teachings of his holy golden throne. So Can it be really that bad ? but one must never trust the xeno's ? Of course to an Inquisitor this would be a valuable asset.

I've not seen any references to a case in any of the books, and while I am generally a gm , that to me if it makes sense or there is a possibility, go for it. I was really just curious to what do you think is such a thing possible, and how do you think it would complicate matters in a situation apart from the obvious, It's a Bluie! bang.

Well 96% of Inquiitors and 99.9999997% of all eccelciarchy would think a xenos worshipping the emperor was either trying to deceive them, mock them or or both, and kill the blaspheming heretic xenos anyway. Imperials don't appreciate, and for a moment believe, an alpha legion CSM when they shout "For the emperor!"

That doesn't mean there aren't any xenos who would worship the emperor. But it's kinda hard to find a reason why. Maybe orks who go a good stomping from SM might see the emperor as a powerfull totem, but not enough to turn from Gork and Mork (if they were that easy to convert they'd all be Khorne worshippers by now)

Still there could be minor races out amongst the starts who worship the emperor. Maybe they have witnessed miracles when fighting with imperials or have tales how The emperor protects aginst the vlle corruption of chaos. But most likely they have been (forcefully) converted by an exentric rogue trader.

In any case, you are the GM; there is no canon but what we make and the 40k universe is very large with lots undiscovred in the darkness.

The Emperor Protects.

Even if someone would worship the emperor, nobody would want to be a part of the Imperium and it's crooked society.

Inquisitors, Slavery, Faschism, Elitism, Autokratim, Monarchy, Millitarism, Oppression and more are all part of the disfigured kulture the Imperium possesses.
It is a refelction of everything humanity did wrong and every other Spezies in the Galaxy may be on the brink of extinction, but are cultural far more developed to join the Imperium

And of the bigger, playable Factions, they either have a better culturall and technological standingpoint or they care little for such things (Tyranids and Orks i.e.)

So even if, they would probably not work with the Imperium, other than that the Inquisition works sometimes with Xenos, some even visited Eldar Craftworlds (Iyanden and Saim Hann are examples)

I played one of these in Rogue Trader, actually:

Jorg da Freeboota (Kommando, to be precise) was 'born' in the belly of the Rogue Trader's ship, and grew up using a derelict chapel as his home. The presence of Aquilas everywhere, along with some better than average Aquila-marked weapons and access to some Ecclesiarchal texts (yes, he was a very 'smart' Ork), ended up with him worshiping da Emprah! He basically put Gork and Mork into Primarch status, and he was a bane to the clear minds of hierophants and the devout everywhere. He basically gave everything he didn't put to use/trade for equipment to the Ecclesiarchy (they dealt with being the equivalent to a recycle bin because there was the occasional relic or nice piece of loot mixed in with his random shiny acquisitions), made misinterpreted or out-of-context quotes of the holy texts quite frequently and beat people who accused him of being a fraud or insulting his faith with an Aquila on a stick he saves for just such an occasion. Even had a bunch of Aquila brands after getting his Sanctioning (when he realized you could put them on his skin, he went a little bit over-board).

He was hilarious, all in all.

Inquisitors, Slavery, Faschism, Elitism, Autokratim, Monarchy, Millitarism, Oppression and more are all part of the disfigured kulture the Imperium possesses.

Monarchy? Autokratism? Imperium is a lot of things but it's not more monarchy as USSR in 70th was.

It is a refelction of everything humanity did wrong and every other Spezies in the Galaxy may be on the brink of extinction, but are cultural far more developed to join the Imperium

I'm not so sure. Yup, Eldars or Necrons have richer culture becase they are older as a race, they just had more time for developing. And you can name fashism, elitism, autokratism and opperssion when speaking about Eldar. Look into Wh40 galaxy - democracy and tolerance won't work good with cultural rich Dark Eldars. Or Orks - you can't really create United Federation of Planets with Orks. It's easy to create tolerate states with Betazoids!

There is only one described race who have that multiracial tendencies and for strange coincidence it's very young race without effective FTL.

Also Imperium have a collective culture from millions of worlds, and that millions are described in fluff as very, very different by culture, with their own traditions, lore, books and songs.

So I disagree. There can be a lot of persons who want to be part of Imperium. It's not the worst that happens with this Galaxy.

While certainly unusual this is hardly impossible! While the wider Imperium would certainly question the motives of such a Xeno that doesn't mean an Individual or even a whole planet wouldn't worship the Emperor! Consider the following scenario: A group of Tau successfully lands on an Imperial world and begins the process of converting the populace to revere the greater good. Initially the Tau are fairly successful and they begin moving in their own people to consolidate. Before they can finish though bad things happen and a Chaos force invades. In the process the Tau leader is killed but the people (Tau included) rally under the local Imperial commander and drive off the invasion! Now The Tau have seen what horrors Chaos really holds! The local Hierophants vocally and loudly remind the people (And Incidently the Tau that remain) that it is by the grace of THE EMPEROR, a god of ORDER that they have been saved!

During the invasion, many Tau discover the old addage that their are no Atheists in foxholes and begin praying to the Emperor! They begin to see that the Ethereals have gotten it all wrong! The Emperor, and by extension humanity have a MANIFEST DESTINY to bring ORDER to the cosmos! As such they begin to see the Emperor as their protector as well! After all; did these humans not fight alongside them to drive off the horror that is Chaos? Is perhaps the greater good in fact more correctly served by serving humanity in this struggle? (Nimsim will now rightly point out that this sounds a lot like Stockholm syndrome! )

The local government for their part are left with the cleanup after a fairly major invasion and are in desperate need of manpower and cannot afford to be fighting another war with the entrenched Tau population. Realizing the strange situation they are in, The local Imperial governor issues an edict making all resident Tau into Bonded Xenos under him! This is not challenged by the Local Tau or the Local Eclesiarchs and thus becomes the Law of this world!

Voila! Instant population of Emperor worshiping Tau! Of course this current happy state would be shattered if any Tau left the world but here it works.

Inquisitors, Slavery, Faschism, Elitism, Autokratim, Monarchy, Millitarism, Oppression and more are all part of the disfigured kulture the Imperium possesses.

Monarchy? Autokratism? Imperium is a lot of things but it's not more monarchy as USSR in 70th was.

It is a refelction of everything humanity did wrong and every other Spezies in the Galaxy may be on the brink of extinction, but are cultural far more developed to join the Imperium

I'm not so sure. Yup, Eldars or Necrons have richer culture becase they are older as a race, they just had more time for developing. And you can name fashism, elitism, autokratism and opperssion when speaking about Eldar. Look into Wh40 galaxy - democracy and tolerance won't work good with cultural rich Dark Eldars. Or Orks - you can't really create United Federation of Planets with Orks. It's easy to create tolerate states with Betazoids!

There is only one described race who have that multiracial tendencies and for strange coincidence it's very young race without effective FTL.

Also Imperium have a collective culture from millions of worlds, and that millions are described in fluff as very, very different by culture, with their own traditions, lore, books and songs.

So I disagree. There can be a lot of persons who want to be part of Imperium. It's not the worst that happens with this Galaxy.

Every Planet governs itself, therefore there are (lots) of Planets with a Monarchy (Knight Worlds...) and several other forms of government.

Okay, of the main factions the only ones with a culture at all are: Eldar and Tau (there are more minor species in the fluff though) Tau show interest in Humanity, but they despise the Imperium.

Craftworld Eldar are many things but none of those you named. They may be arrogant but they have not directly a Elitistic society.

They seem millitaristic, but there is martial law at the moment on the Craftworlds and the Eldar try mostly to survive, this is indeed verry different from a society that defines itself by militarism etc.

(Also the Eldar doing a Genozide on other races is mostly due to the other spezies not cooperating and Eldar are trying to defeat Chaos, if cooperation not works then Humanity must be eliminated, so they don't mess around in the Warp)

Others like Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons fall all under the "Not interested in Culture at all" group.

However I directed my post mostly to the rather unknown spezies in the universe, I named before

Inquisitors, Slavery, Faschism, Elitism, Autokratim, Monarchy, Millitarism, Oppression and more are all part of the disfigured kulture the Imperium possesses.

Monarchy? Autokratism? Imperium is a lot of things but it's not more monarchy as USSR in 70th was.

It is a refelction of everything humanity did wrong and every other Spezies in the Galaxy may be on the brink of extinction, but are cultural far more developed to join the Imperium

I'm not so sure. Yup, Eldars or Necrons have richer culture becase they are older as a race, they just had more time for developing. And you can name fashism, elitism, autokratism and opperssion when speaking about Eldar. Look into Wh40 galaxy - democracy and tolerance won't work good with cultural rich Dark Eldars. Or Orks - you can't really create United Federation of Planets with Orks. It's easy to create tolerate states with Betazoids!

There is only one described race who have that multiracial tendencies and for strange coincidence it's very young race without effective FTL.

Also Imperium have a collective culture from millions of worlds, and that millions are described in fluff as very, very different by culture, with their own traditions, lore, books and songs.

So I disagree. There can be a lot of persons who want to be part of Imperium. It's not the worst that happens with this Galaxy.

Every Planet governs itself, therefore there are (lots) of Planets with a Monarchy (Knight Worlds...) and several other forms of government.

Okay, of the main factions the only ones with a culture at all are: Eldar and Tau (there are more minor species in the fluff though) Tau show interest in Humanity, but they despise the Imperium.

Craftworld Eldar are many things but none of those you named. They may be arrogant but they have not directly a Elitistic society.

They seem millitaristic, but there is martial law at the moment on the Craftworlds and the Eldar try mostly to survive, this is indeed verry different from a society that defines itself by militarism etc.

(Also the Eldar doing a Genozide on other races is mostly due to the other spezies not cooperating and Eldar are trying to defeat Chaos, if cooperation not works then Humanity must be eliminated, so they don't mess around in the Warp)

Others like Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, Necrons fall all under the "Not interested in Culture at all" group.

However I directed my post mostly to the rather unknown spezies in the universe, I named before

Don't forget that the ancient Necrons have a Culture as well! It is only remembered by their overlords but it's still there. Also, to say that Dark Eldar or Orks do not have a culture is wrong. Orks in particular have a very vibrant Culture while the Dark Eldar culture is well...dark. Just because their cultures are very different doesn't mean they don't have one! I guarantee that an Archon has every bit as much concern with his lineage and traditions as any Imperial noble! Only the Tyranids are truly beasts and even they have a social hierarchy in the form of their hive mind.

I would also note that the Imperium permits a number of lesser Xenos to continue existence based on the fact that they have been deemed a non-threat. It is even stated that some limited trade occurs with these "lesser" races.

Yeah, no, Ghost.

Dark Eldar have a very ancient culture, one older than that of the Craftworlds. They are about hedonism, decadence, violence and self-gratification above all others. They still echo the Eldar Empire before the Fall.

Orks have a relatively simplistic culture, but it has multiple castes, clans, methodologies, etc. You could argue the Imperium follows the Ork way to an extent; you follow the strongest, because the strongest make you follow them.

Necrons have a culture older than the Eldar's, full of meaning. Most of the current Necrons are soulless, metal husks who can't remember it, but their leaders and those with the force of will to survive do. There's Necrons out there entering parley, communicating with other races, etc.

I'm not even going to delve into your errors on the Eldar.

I didn't write "have no culture" I simply put them under the category "not interested in culture", maybe a poor choice of words but lemme explain:

Every society has a culture, be it young or old, however different societies are or are not interested in other cultures.
Tau are and Eldar potentially.

I don't want to go into too much depth, because I believe that this was only a misunderstanding, so I'll pick up the example of Orks:
Yes Orks have a culture indeed, it is even very dominant.
The orkyness that is key to ork culture is even so dominant that Ork Genestealer Hybrids still live by that principle.

But due to that Orks have relative little in other cultures. They may like the fruits of such (loot) but the culture as it is does not interest them.

It is simillar with the other factions I mentioned (Tyranids are probably the only ones not interested in culture, Necrons are debatable)


Hope that clarifies my standpoind

I don't see why alien would venerate a god (the emperor) that is described as a genodical maniac that considers mankind the only would be ruler of the galaxy, doing this by the vertuous cleansing of any species that aren't human.

I disagree either way.

Two words, Ghost; Blood Axes. They're an entire clan of Orks who emulate and take inspiration from Human culture when possible.

I'd put Dark Eldar as more likely to accept Human culture than normal Eldar; humans are more like the Dark Eldar than their Craftworld brethren. The Craftworlders keep to their path to avoid losing their souls to Slaanesh, whereas Dark Eldar go around slaking their desires on whatever they want, basically feeding others to Slaanesh stave off their demise.

As far as why aliens would venerate the God-Emperor, that's a matter of perspective and interpretation. I don't want to get into a discussion of real life, but compare what some religions of the world say about certain groups of people. Then note said people still follow that religion. Same kind of thing. If they can not die immediately, there's a chance they can make it for a while.

Every Planet governs itself, therefore there are (lots) of Planets with a Monarchy (Knight Worlds...) and several other forms of government.

Yeah, planets are. But Imperium?

By the way, I can't really say what's inherently wrong with monarchy. How English, Spain or, let's say, Sweden crown are bad?

Craftworld Eldar are many things but none of those you named. They may be arrogant but they have not directly a Elitistic society.

Look into Craftworld Eldar rulebook through all that "elder sage" flavour.

Eldars are believe that they are elder race, the race who are destined to rule Galaxy. Yeah, they say, they were betrayed by their berthern, but there are Eldars - and there are mon-keys and others who just not so cool by their race. Burn hive worlds to save a handle of Eldars - of course, who count that pathetic humans! Hello, racism.

Eldars looks into their society as a prime value, and every Eldar expected to sacrifice his own intrests to the benefit of whole. If they don't - they are banished, and even then Eldar expected to came to his Craftworld defence when Craftworld need. Hello, fascism.

Eldars are governed by seers and farseers, who just know better then others, so they guide their nation through ages without any opposition. Hello, elitism.

Eldars have a society that oriented to war, defensive or not, not matter, all their activities dedicated to war in the end. Hello, militarism.

Oh, they really can excuse all that, by their bitter situation, war with Chaos and so on. But is it really matter? Imperium can explain it all too. After all human lives in galaxy where continent-size spaceships flying around, seeing into human as primitive nations, who can be used as grunts to save Eldars from extinction, and if they dodge this noble proporse, well... "then Humanity must be eliminated, so they don't mess around in the Warp".

You see problem is there is no large faction in WH40K Galaxy who use modern liberalism and democracy as society model. Tau with all their nice flavour have a very, very rigid caste society with no faction but Ethernals have right to govern. Yeah, they have a handful of vassal worlds who are self-governed and have their own ways and traditions, but Tau directly says they're going to incorporate their culture into Empire. And I very doubt that Tau sees Kroot as their new ruling caste.

As far as why aliens would venerate the God-Emperor, that's a matter of perspective and interpretation. I don't want to get into a discussion of real life, but compare what some religions of the world say about certain groups of people. Then note said people still follow that religion. Same kind of thing. If they can not die immediately, there's a chance they can make it for a while.

Don't make the mistake of comparing the way xenos would think to the way human would think.

Jew were able to disguise as nazis because unless you put their pants down, they could be "iniltrated", same for catholic vs anglican and such, it wasn't written in their face.

But no, you won't see a black being member of the Kux Klux Klan.

In all cases, if you get some like cases of this, remember that they are individual exceptions, not a real possibility, far less a norm.

I'm not talking about infiltration, or about Nazis and Jews. I'm not even talking about how they would think (like I said, it is a matter of perspective and interpretation, which varies immensely).

To be more specific about what I was saying, look at some quotes from various Abrahamic religions about women, for example. Now look at how many women follow said religions, even though those rules definitely aren't friendly to their rights/freedoms.

I also never said anything about them not being a general exception.

Seems my topic has Brought up quite the debate * sits there with popcorn*

To be more specific about what I was saying, look at some quotes from various Abrahamic religions about women, for example. Now look at how many women follow said religions, even though those rules definitely aren't friendly to their rights/freedoms.

These are interpretations. Many people the debate quite the opposite in many said abrahamic religions.

And if we consider that your example is the truth, okay then.

Said woman are still not considered vermin to be killed, extinguished and destroyed in order for men to survive. Our ancestors (and their Divine Inspirators, if you have faith) weren't dumb to the point of saying that the principal part of procreation had to be killed in order to let faith develop in the future, it would be counter productive.

On the other hand, the imperial religion states that mankind must be the only ruler of the stars and this goes by exterminationg any non-human (and even not-enough-human) societies. I can see how a "desperate" or "deluded" woman can accept to be part of a religion where she is exluded or considered inferior, but I can't see how a woman could accept to be part of a religion that ask the death of all woman.

So yeah...exceptions, sanctionned xenos, okay.

No worlds, no armies, no such things, in my opinion.

Seems my topic has Brought up quite the debate * sits there with popcorn*

So you reveal your true colors atlast Alpha Legion traitor! How dare you unleash such controv- actually this is kinda fun. *sits down and grabs some popcorn*

Some other equally nice debate going on in this thread:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/133801-can-mind-control-take-over-servitors/#entry1960913

*starts roasting chestnuts*

Now all we need is a 3d thread about wether or not servitors can worship the emperor.

You see problem is there is no large faction in WH40K Galaxy who use modern liberalism and democracy as society model.

Not to get too political but I disagree! I think that the Eldar and the Tau both do an excellent job of illustrating the darker side of the liberal mentality. The whole idea of the "Elites know what's good for you" and "Everyone will be provided for by the leadership caste and THEY will decide what you need." are deeply ingrained in the current "liberal" mentality!

Don't get me wrong! Conservatism and capitalism have their darker aspects as well and these are well illustrated within the Imperium! Remember that 40k is a "dark future" where EVERY society type is perverted to it's darker aspect!

*Breaks out BIG bowl of homemade popcorn!*

The whole idea of the "Elites know what's good for you" and "Everyone will be provided for by the leadership caste and THEY will decide what you need." are deeply ingrained in the current "liberal" mentality!

I believe we don't ready honestly name fascist as model liberal thinkers. Named concepts are very basis of fascist ideology.

Yeah, modern society is weird mix between fascism and liberalism.

Well...Remember that Nazi was an acronym for "National Socialist" party. Just sayin...

In any case, to comment on the topic, I highly doubt any alien that actually KNOWS what the creed really is worships the Emperor, though I'm sure there are some tolerated and extremely ignorant primitives somewhere that do from occasional contact with humanity. The more interesting question is: what of their souls?

I had a similar debate with a friend of mine over what would happen if a human worshipped the Laughing God. Once he died, would the Laughing God actually collect his soul? I was under the impression that, no, he wouldn't. If the worshipper was true, and his talent and tenacity were strong, I figured the Laughing God would be impressed, and save his soul from being eaten by Chaos, but then he'd kick him like a hacky sack off to the Emperor to be with his own kind. However, I don't know of any other alien gods but the handful mentioned already, so not having anywhere else to send them but to his enemies, would the Emperor protect the soul of a xeno follower?

He's said to protect the souls of his faithful in the warp, so I wouldn't see why not really.

By the way, I believe I should notice that "abhor the witch" point of Credo don't forbid AAT, Navigators and Astronomican, and "abhor the mutants" don't forbid abhumans. Yes, it's limiting them, they're used to be under heavy scrutiny and have limited rights, but they are allowed to exist. Why xenos should be exception?

Well, I can point some arguements why they should, but I believe it's honest place for theological dispute. That happens in Imperium.

About souls... well, existence of soul is scientific fact (as long as you can tell about science) in WH universe, there are specialists and devices that can just see it. So I believe Imperium won't deny existence of xeno souls (when two specialists who have enough clearance speaking of course), and so won't Emperor. Why should he? Question is - do we take as granted that Emperor spirit exists in Warp and protects souls of his faithful? Laughing God exists (even if he is not Deciver or/and Tzeentch, that I like as idea), do the Emperor?

Actually, orks do sort of revere the Emperor. 'Worship' is the wrong word, though:

From White Dwarf 118

The Orks have heard of the Emperor of Humanity. They know that Humans worship him as a deity and have seen his shrines and icons on many worlds. Orks regard the Emperor as the war god of the Humans. The Emperor is something which they can easily understand since their own gods are war gods. They see the Emperor as the controlling power of vast armies, great fleets and awesome military technology. The fact that his servants are all weedy 'oomans does not alter the impression made on the Orks of the Emperor as a powerful war god.

The Emperor is even sometimes considered of almost equal status to their own gods, because the Orks, being a warrior society, respect and admire tough opponents. Orks raid and rampage throughout the Imperium, but the Emperor is still there. For thousands of years he has commanded the loyalty of his followers and sent them into battle against the Orks.

There are even some Ork legends in which the Emperor appears as a titanic caricature of Human kind, to challenge the Ork gods to battle. For most Orks, the Emperor is envisaged as a vague, remote and ancient power who motivates his long-suffering followers to take on irrational and pointless tasks which make no sense to the Orkish mind. Like his Human servants, the Emperor appears doomed to do everything the hard way or the wrong way from the Ork point of view. The stress and despair which the poor Humans seem to bring down upon themselves is yet another cause of wonder to the Orks. Not surprisingly the Orks use the word 'ooman (Human) as a byword for things that are silly, pointless or impractical, and will often crack jokes about the Humans and the Emperor.

Orks have a concept of "Skumgrod" - loosely translated as 'best of enemies" - Yarrik and Ghazgkhull, for example. 'Da Empora" is essentially a god whose job is to provide things to punch, I guess.

By the way, I believe I should notice that "abhor the witch" point of Credo don't forbid AAT, Navigators and Astronomican, and "abhor the mutants" don't forbid abhumans. Yes, it's limiting them, they're used to be under heavy scrutiny and have limited rights, but they are allowed to exist. Why xenos should be exception?

Which and mutants are still human to begin from. Not xenos.