....Either ackbar and whales/corvettes or double ISD? It seems Imperials can't compete with rebels now unless they have ISDs for ECM and fighters, while rebels seem to do nothing but spam ackbar and red dice. In my local area this doesn't (yet) seem to be the case, but online it's like that's all we see. Is that really all that's being suggested now?

No.

(This has been another episode of short answers to long questions...)

As a rebel player I'm finding it hard to see past Akbar at the moment!

My greatest success last weekend was:

ISD-I

Vic-I

Vic-I, Boosted Comms, Motti

Rhymer
5x Bomber
Advanced
Dengar
Firespray

ISD-I out on the flank by itself. Both VICs in a staggered formation, Naked leading, Motti slightly trailing. Rhymerball between them.

Pincer the Rebels with the ISD and Vic fields, and hammer them with the Rhymer ball in the middle...

Acc's be damned, its 34 hull points to Chew Through. They can't lock down the Ball, and if they try to break out between everyone - or push through for a well-timed Ackbar Slash, then they get eaten by the 'Ball... Or merely hammered into oblivion by overwhelming firepower.

Plus, with Cheap, Naked Victories and ISDs - you can be loose with them, you can be ballsy and blase, because frankly, they don't matter anywhere near as much as your opponents expensive ships.

As a rebel player I'm finding it hard to see past Akbar at the moment!

That's sort of my issue with it at the moment. Playing against it, I've found that if I'm careful, I can use maneuvering to make things not that bad. But across the internet, it seems nobody wants to do anything but take ackbar and fly in a circle or line.

....Either ackbar and whales/corvettes or double ISD? It seems Imperials can't compete with rebels now unless they have ISDs for ECM and fighters, while rebels seem to do nothing but spam ackbar and red dice. In my local area this doesn't (yet) seem to be the case, but online it's like that's all we see. Is that really all that's being suggested now?

I just won the Vassal tourney with a bunch of B-Wings and Garm. I thoroughly dismantled an Ackbar list in the process. The game is in a great place of balance right now. If you're having trouble with Ackbar, a Rhymerball or Fireball should do the trick nicely. They can well out range it, and use VSDs as carriers to boot.

....Either ackbar and whales/corvettes or double ISD? It seems Imperials can't compete with rebels now unless they have ISDs for ECM and fighters, while rebels seem to do nothing but spam ackbar and red dice. In my local area this doesn't (yet) seem to be the case, but online it's like that's all we see. Is that really all that's being suggested now?

People are in a second honeymoon phase now that all the new ships are out. Everyone loves the ISD, but it's big and expensive and only one version is really tough. Everyone loves the MC80, but it's really slow. Everyone loves Ackbar, but if he dies the remaining fleet frequently collapses.

Screed is amazing right now. Motti is amazing right now. Ozzel is doing something incredible: letting Imperial players pay a measly 20 points for an Admiral. Mon Mothma affects every ship in the Rebel fleet except the MC80. Dodanna is ridiculous with the new Assault Proton torpedoes and Garm Bel Iblis is decking out entire fleets with a dozen command tokens twice a game. Rieekan is basically inventing an entire new type of fleet design. Darth Vader is making ships better than they have any right to be.without any actual weapon upgrades.

If anything, once this excitement dies down we're going to see some of the most diverse list designs in any Star Wars minis game right now.

it...helps to engage...akbar...with some sense of...speed or else he'll...broadside your...shatner ass

I'm on the MC80 hate train (waaaay overpriced and underwhelming). I also am trying to win without Ackbar... I'm seeing mixed results. And the AF's are still better, but Jesus a few good rolls against it, and it's a pile of dust.

The ISD has made the Imperals easy mode IMO. It's hard to take down directly, but ignore it, and you'll get eaten alive by it.

I tend to favour using Rebel builds, and I'd say I use Ol' Fish Lips about 50% of the time or less. I still like Mon Mothma, especially if I have Shrimps (and especially Foresight) and Corvettes out there. Dodonna is great fun too when you're throwing crits around. All depends on if I'm going for initiative, and what Objectives I'm taking. I like to generally bring a run'n'gun fleet that's fast and agile, to get and stay out of that Cone of Death at the front of the ISDs/VSDs.

Granted, Ackbar is amazing at the right moment... like when my opponent who hadn't flown against him (but one that I had made fully aware of The Admiral's ability pre-game) left his GSD directly broadside to the Assault MC80 with EA and Ackbar... I think I landed 11 hits/crits.

Yes, Ackbar is an easy path to power. Kind of like the Dark Side.

I've been messing around with Mc30s with APTs and Dodonna. its fun to basically pick and choose which critical you want to have resolved with surgical precision.

I tried a list with dodna and failed miserably,

ive made many lists with ackbar and done alright, But im eager to try this one out:

Mothra
Author: CenterPoint

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 397/400

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Foresight ( 8 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Mon Mothma ( 30 points)
- Tantive IV ( 3 points)

3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

I'm of the opinion that Raymus Yav is the only viable reble carrier. I tend to drive my Neb Escort into the enemy and ram to disrupt, whereas the AF wants to remain at range on its broadsides. This to me, means that the Neb is far better suited to conveying fighters.

(Garm does turn the entire fleet into mini carries as an alternative)

Granted I dont have that much experience yet.

My greatest success last weekend was:

ISD-I

Vic-I

Vic-I, Boosted Comms, Motti

Rhymer

5x Bomber

Advanced

Dengar

Firespray

ISD-I out on the flank by itself. Both VICs in a staggered formation, Naked leading, Motti slightly trailing. Rhymerball between them.

Pincer the Rebels with the ISD and Vic fields, and hammer them with the Rhymer ball in the middle...

Acc's be damned, its 34 hull points to Chew Through. They can't lock down the Ball, and if they try to break out between everyone - or push through for a well-timed Ackbar Slash, then they get eaten by the 'Ball... Or merely hammered into oblivion by overwhelming firepower.

Plus, with Cheap, Naked Victories and ISDs - you can be loose with them, you can be ballsy and blase, because frankly, they don't matter anywhere near as much as your opponents expensive ships.

[ EMPIRE FLEET (394 points)

1 • Imperial I-class Star Destroyer (110)

2 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Motti - Boosted Comms - Corrupter (106)

3 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer (73)

4 • Major Rhymer TIE Bomber Squadron (16)

5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

7 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

8 • Firespray-31 (18)

9 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)

10 • Dengar Punishing One (20)

11 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)

http://armada.fabpsb.net/permalink.php?sq=e15e1c3g3f5e1e8e9e9e9e17e12e22e12 ]

e15e1c3g3f5e1e8e9e9e9e17e12e22e12

Would this be as competitive as I do not have 5x bombers available to me?

Trading a Bomber for Corruptor is a legitimate call if you don't have / can't push that many bombers around Just make sure you are utilising the speed - otherwise, you might be better on looking at something of an upgrade elsewhere if you find the upgrade isn't worth the movement... Remember, it boost everyone but Dengar and the Advanced...

I used something pretty similar to Drasnighta today which seemed to work well:

ISD2 (leading shots)

VSD1 (Motti, expanded hangers)

VSD1 (expanded hangers)

3x Bomber

1x Dengar

3x Interceptors

1x Howlrunner

400

Advanced gunnery, fire lanes, superior positions.

Trades bombers for fighters. I was finding that while dengar + advanced keeps the bombers going for a turn or two, once they are taken out (only a matter of time since people are actually bringing fighters now) the bombers bog right down again just like in wave one. The new theory is to buy the bombers a turn of freedom with dengars life, and then clean up the enemy fighters with the interceptor force. Once there are no more enemy fighters the bombers can happily go bombing all day long.

I am guilty of spamming Ackbar from the rebel side though......so much power in the dark side!

I used something pretty similar to Drasnighta today which seemed to work well:

ISD2 (leading shots)

VSD1 (Motti, expanded hangers)

VSD1 (expanded hangers)

3x Bomber

1x Dengar

3x Interceptors

1x Howlrunner

400

Advanced gunnery, fire lanes, superior positions.

Trades bombers for fighters. I was finding that while dengar + advanced keeps the bombers going for a turn or two, once they are taken out (only a matter of time since people are actually bringing fighters now) the bombers bog right down again just like in wave one. The new theory is to buy the bombers a turn of freedom with dengars life, and then clean up the enemy fighters with the interceptor force. Once there are no more enemy fighters the bombers can happily go bombing all day long.

I am guilty of spamming Ackbar from the rebel side though......so much power in the dark side!

What role do you use your capital ships in? Fire support/distraction? Or just as carriers?

A lot of people are using Ackbar due to what a point-and-click list it is and it does really well until they loose Ackbar. I'm seeing, like others the alternative type squadron builds do well and I think its the best counter to all those red dice

Enacht - The capitals are still the main fighting force since I don't have enough bombers to hang back and win a stand off (unless I have total squadron superiority and we are playing superior positions....but how often is that going to happen?) I'm thinking that dropping the hangers and leading shots and changing to a pair of tractor beams might help get the VSD1's on target more often.......I also like the idea of stealing nav tokens off people who are relying on using them to slow down to stay on the table.

Enacht - The capitals are still the main fighting force since I don't have enough bombers to hang back and win a stand off (unless I have total squadron superiority and we are playing superior positions....but how often is that going to happen?) I'm thinking that dropping the hangers and leading shots and changing to a pair of tractor beams might help get the VSD1's on target more often.......I also like the idea of stealing nav tokens off people who are relying on using them to slow down to stay on the table.

Interesting. I will give this a try as the Rhymer ball, while brutally effective, is getting old.

Just because everybody is doing it doesn't mean it's "the best". The nice thing about Akbar is that in some ways, the game goes into easy mode. You don't have to worry about maneuvering to get two firing arcs shooting at one hull zone, you can just plop as many dice mods as you can manage on an assault MC-80 and blaze away from long range with your broadsides. (The Akbar slash is an admittedly good if risky maneuver). While this is easy it is far from cost effective in terms of dice. If I'm willing to waste a turn or two gaining fighter superiority, I'm usually able to get a lot more dice into the hull zone I want to hit with a group of x-wings/b-wings and careful maneuvering than I am with old fish face. There are many equally viable and far more interesting options. Just don't let all those red dice distract you. One you go bomber black, you never go back.

Once you go bomber black, you never go back.

This.

I've seen (and worked through) plenty of build without Ackbar. Now if we could only see some non-Rhymerball builds...........