Just saying.

Starkiller base did exactly what it was meant to do.

The First Order did not lose.

StarKiller base was acceptable losses. Next movie is gonna show FO on the offensive controlling half the Galaxy with the Resistence scrambling to get enough ships and man power.

According to an interview with the screen writer they're going "weird" with EP 8.

Oh goddammit! JJ is gonna do that alternate universe thing from star trek isn't he?

Or will it be directed by David Cronenberg and star, Johnny Depp?

JJ already has done the alternate universe in Star Wars like he did in Star Trek when he wiped out all the Star Wars lore from previous novels and comics. He could have easily come up with a great story that kept in line with the beloved X-Wing series, Thrawn trilogy, and Jedi novels, but he simply refused to. He completely disrespected a lot of authors who took great pride in their work and fans who greatly loved those books. The Thrawn trilogy really rebooted the Star Wars universe decades ago and sparked great interest in Star Wars. Why wipe it out? I suspect pure arrogance, which is why I have a hard time respecting JJ Abrams' work - because he does not respect the work of others. Both in Star Trek and Star Wars he could have very easily paid homage to those writers, authors, and comic book creators and written great in-universe movies.

Instead, he has to make such big changes that alternate universes (or "Legends" in Star Wars) have to be created to explain such complete changes to the universe have been made. I find it hard to stomach JJ Abrams' new Star Trek and Star Wars universes because they don't pay homage to the previous canon and instead create a whole new canon so JJ Abrams can have new fans bow down and pay homage to him.

I don't buy the idiotic line that he "saved" the Star Trek universe or Star Wars franchise. I have been reading Star Wars comics and novels and going to comic cons for years and fandom for both has continued to grow stronger. It was not necessary to wipe out previous canon to make a good movie. Those were not obstacles but building blocks for greater movies than the crap he gave us instead.

In Star Trek we get an alternate timeline/parallel universe, hardly a new concept in Trek (Mirror Universe). Once the decision was made to go with the crew from TOS it was the best option available to them as far as I'm concerned. Too many ways for things to go wrong if they tried to tell TOS stories that hadn't been told yet and fit them into the existing lore. There would have been too many complaints from old time fans who thought they were telling the stories wrong.

There is already a ton of material for us old time fans. This is a new Trek for a new generation and well made movies at that. You can either embrace it, watch reruns of TOS or do both.

I don't buy into that idiotic line that JJ "ruined" Star Trek or Star Wars. Both Star Trek movies and TFA are excellent movies, not to mention successful by approval of the majority of their viewers and financially. Only a small group of very vocal detractors who's view of the franchise wasn't validated and JJ haters would have you believe otherwise. While these folks are definitely entitled to their opinions, their aggressive doom and gloom campaigns are misplaced and gin up little support for their views, actually galvanizing the opposition more often than not.

@Stormtrooper721

Do you have any evidence that JJ Abrams personally pulled the plug on the EU? Or is it possible that Disney did it? I mean, what makes you think JJ has that kind of power, ultimate power, at Disney? Actually, didn't it become legendary, meaning they can still use whatever they deem worthy from the EU?

The EU hid a few gems amongst an avalanche of subpar stories written by 2nd or 3rd tier authors. I found very few of the books I read worth the effort and gave up after reading about 20 of them. You would have to be jonesing for SW to read most of those books in my opinion.

Edit: Slow typing =multiple ninja's

Star trek isn't an alternative universe or time line it directly replaces tos, tng,ds9 and voyager the only Canon series left is the pretty awful enterprise.

That's why the community rejects that movie.

JJ already has done the alternate universe in Star Wars like he did in Star Trek when he wiped out all the Star Wars lore from previous novels and comics. He could have easily come up with a great story that kept in line with the beloved X-Wing series, Thrawn trilogy, and Jedi novels, but he simply refused to. He completely disrespected a lot of authors who took great pride in their work and fans who greatly loved those books. The Thrawn trilogy really rebooted the Star Wars universe decades ago and sparked great interest in Star Wars. Why wipe it out? I suspect pure arrogance, which is why I have a hard time respecting JJ Abrams' work - because he does not respect the work of others. Both in Star Trek and Star Wars he could have very easily paid homage to those writers, authors, and comic book creators and written great in-universe movies.

Instead, he has to make such big changes that alternate universes (or "Legends" in Star Wars) have to be created to explain such complete changes to the universe have been made. I find it hard to stomach JJ Abrams' new Star Trek and Star Wars universes because they don't pay homage to the previous canon and instead create a whole new canon so JJ Abrams can have new fans bow down and pay homage to him.

I don't buy the idiotic line that he "saved" the Star Trek universe or Star Wars franchise. I have been reading Star Wars comics and novels and going to comic cons for years and fandom for both has continued to grow stronger. It was not necessary to wipe out previous canon to make a good movie. Those were not obstacles but building blocks for greater movies than the crap he gave us instead.

Ahh, an EU loyalist. You do realize, that the works of the EU that are highly acclaimed is not that high. And I'm sorry, but the state of the EU before the buyout was NOT in a good place. LOTF and FOTJ pretty much killed Star Wars for me as much as many are claiming this movie killed Star Wars for them. I'm sorry, but Abrams (even with his weaknesses in scripts) and Kasdan are much better choices for determining the state of the galaxy going forward than Troy Denning.

And then we get into the issue of picking and choosing, because no one can deny that there is some very, very bad stuff in the EU. So who determines what is worth keeping and what needs to be tossed out? Amazingly, there isn't a set list of what needs to be kept and what doesn't. Someone was going to get upset, no matter what. Better with a clean slate.

I embrace the change. I can still read the stories I loved. Canocity doesn't bother me, especially when the EU had gotten sooooo bad, even though I miss Ania Solo. Down with Jaina Solo and Ben Skywalker. All hail Ben Solo and Rey.

For Every Thrawn there was a Yuuzan Vong, For every Mara Jade there was a Voort Sabinring.

For my part I'd love to see them bring some of the 'good' EU back, selectively. Mara Jade would REALLY be nice.

Star trek isn't an alternative universe or time line it directly replaces tos, tng,ds9 and voyager the only Canon series left is the pretty awful enterprise.

That's why the community rejects that movie.

NO REALLY, WHAT?

Did... Did you actually WATCH the movie, Hobo? Are you pulling my leg here mate? Come on. What the hell?

Dude.

They explicitly said in the film that The Narada and Spock came from a different timeline.

Kirk's Father DYING made an immediate divergence in the continuity, one that split TOS' timeline from THIS one.

The only way you could ever miss this is if you weren't paying attention in the first place.

Star trek isn't an alternative universe or time line it directly replaces tos, tng,ds9 and voyager the only Canon series left is the pretty awful enterprise.

That's why the community rejects that movie.

What community rejects the movie? Everybody I know personally, likes them. The only complaints I see are on the Internet, and still it certainly seems those complaints represent a minority opinion. Both ST and SW.

Star Trek is a reboot in an alternate timeline. It's even mentioned in the first film as mentioned in Captain Lackwit's post above.

As I've said numerous times, it's perfectly ok to not like any of these movies. No movie is for everybody. However, I find the phenomenon of the doom and gloom threads that go beyond saying I don't like this movie, into the realm of this franchise is ruined forever, a real head scratcher.

Just saying.

Starkiller base did exactly what it was meant to do.

The First Order did not lose.

StarKiller base was acceptable losses. Next movie is gonna show FO on the offensive controlling half the Galaxy with the Resistence scrambling to get enough ships and man power.

According to an interview with the screen writer they're going "weird" with EP 8.

Oh goddammit! JJ is gonna do that alternate universe thing from star trek isn't he?

Or will it be directed by David Cronenberg and star, Johnny Depp?

JJ already has done the alternate universe in Star Wars like he did in Star Trek when he wiped out all the Star Wars lore from previous novels and comics. He could have easily come up with a great story that kept in line with the beloved X-Wing series, Thrawn trilogy, and Jedi novels, but he simply refused to. He completely disrespected a lot of authors who took great pride in their work and fans who greatly loved those books. The Thrawn trilogy really rebooted the Star Wars universe decades ago and sparked great interest in Star Wars. Why wipe it out? I suspect pure arrogance, which is why I have a hard time respecting JJ Abrams' work - because he does not respect the work of others. Both in Star Trek and Star Wars he could have very easily paid homage to those writers, authors, and comic book creators and written great in-universe movies.

Instead, he has to make such big changes that alternate universes (or "Legends" in Star Wars) have to be created to explain such complete changes to the universe have been made. I find it hard to stomach JJ Abrams' new Star Trek and Star Wars universes because they don't pay homage to the previous canon and instead create a whole new canon so JJ Abrams can have new fans bow down and pay homage to him.

I don't buy the idiotic line that he "saved" the Star Trek universe or Star Wars franchise. I have been reading Star Wars comics and novels and going to comic cons for years and fandom for both has continued to grow stronger. It was not necessary to wipe out previous canon to make a good movie. Those were not obstacles but building blocks for greater movies than the crap he gave us instead.

If you think JJ trashed the EU, you're not a very educated or well informed person. JJ is a director and roughly 1/2 of the writing team. What role do you suppose Disney played in the whole thing? I would suspect you think none.

That being said, a vast portion of the EU was GARBAGE. Even the Thrawn trilogy had some silliness. A clone of Luke? whose name was Luuke? Yep. that happened. Seriously cringe-worthy.

The Yuuzhan-Vong? The dreadnought that was controlled by a Jedi Spirit? There was some mind-numbing stupidity going on.

I'm thrilled The Force Awakens is showing that its keeping things star warsy. It needs to be campy and derivative because THATS what makes it work.

But, by all means carry on believing that this was all some vast conspiracy by JJ abrams to take Star Wars and turn it into his Magnum Opus of megalomania.

But I just wanna get all this straight:

-Luke fighting Luuke

-Biological zombies that repel the force

-the prequels. "are you an angel?" (I mean, jesus....)

and the FORCE AWAKENS KILLED STAR WARS FOR YOU???

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

JJ already has done the alternate universe in Star Wars like he did in Star Trek when he wiped out all the Star Wars lore from previous novels and comics. He could have easily come up with a great story that kept in line with the beloved X-Wing series, Thrawn trilogy, and Jedi novels, but he simply refused to. He completely disrespected a lot of authors who took great pride in their work and fans who greatly loved those books. The Thrawn trilogy really rebooted the Star Wars universe decades ago and sparked great interest in Star Wars. Why wipe it out? I suspect pure arrogance, which is why I have a hard time respecting JJ Abrams' work - because he does not respect the work of others. Both in Star Trek and Star Wars he could have very easily paid homage to those writers, authors, and comic book creators and written great in-universe movies.

Instead, he has to make such big changes that alternate universes (or "Legends" in Star Wars) have to be created to explain such complete changes to the universe have been made. I find it hard to stomach JJ Abrams' new Star Trek and Star Wars universes because they don't pay homage to the previous canon and instead create a whole new canon so JJ Abrams can have new fans bow down and pay homage to him.

I don't buy the idiotic line that he "saved" the Star Trek universe or Star Wars franchise. I have been reading Star Wars comics and novels and going to comic cons for years and fandom for both has continued to grow stronger. It was not necessary to wipe out previous canon to make a good movie. Those were not obstacles but building blocks for greater movies than the crap he gave us instead.

Really not sure. The EU had a few - FEW - gems, but was littered with crap that made no sense within it's own context and contradicted itself regularly. Disney did the clean slate, not JJ.

But I get it, he SHOULD have called you and asked what you wanted included, that's totally on him.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...Skippy the Jedi Droid.

So glad they wiped the whole EU and started fresh. To the point above about Luuuuuuke and Jooooorruuuuuuus, even within the "good" EU stuff, the silliness was just out of control.

JJ already has done the alternate universe in Star Wars like he did in Star Trek when he wiped out all the Star Wars lore from previous novels and comics. He could have easily come up with a great story that kept in line with the beloved X-Wing series, Thrawn trilogy, and Jedi novels, but he simply refused to. He completely disrespected a lot of authors who took great pride in their work and fans who greatly loved those books. The Thrawn trilogy really rebooted the Star Wars universe decades ago and sparked great interest in Star Wars. Why wipe it out? I suspect pure arrogance, which is why I have a hard time respecting JJ Abrams' work - because he does not respect the work of others. Both in Star Trek and Star Wars he could have very easily paid homage to those writers, authors, and comic book creators and written great in-universe movies.

Instead, he has to make such big changes that alternate universes (or "Legends" in Star Wars) have to be created to explain such complete changes to the universe have been made. I find it hard to stomach JJ Abrams' new Star Trek and Star Wars universes because they don't pay homage to the previous canon and instead create a whole new canon so JJ Abrams can have new fans bow down and pay homage to him.

I don't buy the idiotic line that he "saved" the Star Trek universe or Star Wars franchise. I have been reading Star Wars comics and novels and going to comic cons for years and fandom for both has continued to grow stronger. It was not necessary to wipe out previous canon to make a good movie. Those were not obstacles but building blocks for greater movies than the crap he gave us instead.

Stop putting the EU up on a pedestal! It's causing you to find fault where there is none and your accusation that JJ Abrams was responsible for dumping the EU is plain false. He does not have the authority to do that; it's Kathleen Kennedy and the Lucasfilm Story Group(ironically the same people who were the custodians of the EU) who were responsible for it and they did it to serve the story of the new trilogy and not without lengthy deliberations. Also, despite what you might think, they did not disrespect any of the EU authors by declaring their works un-canonical, in fact they honor their work by continuing to make them available under the Legends label. Do you really think these authors have a shred of concern about the canonicity of their work? They're just glad that people are still buying their books and enjoying them. Stop being offended on their behalf.

I say all this as fan who enjoyed the EU stories as much I loved the OT and to some extant even more than the movies. I was initially upset when Disney/Lucasfilm announced that the EU would no longer be canon but I got over it eventually because I saw no point in hanging on to the EU if the new movies ultimate weren't gonna be beholden to them. Even though I feel its a shame that gems like the Thrawn trilogy and the X-wing novels don't count anymore in the context of the new canon I wasn't gonna let that ruin my enjoyment of new Star Wars content. Although the quality of new canon content have so far been very good there a few things that I'm still unhappy about namely the diminished role of Wedge and the lack of stories concerning Luke, Leia and Han post Endor, but overall I'm fully invested in it and I'm enjoying the process of rediscovering the Star Wars universe through the new canon.

Oh and if you haven't already figured it out, I also enjoyed TFA.....alot!

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...Skippy the Jedi Droid.

So glad they wiped the whole EU and started fresh. To the point above about Luuuuuuke and Jooooorruuuuuuus, even within the "good" EU stuff, the silliness was just out of control.

I remember a particularly embarrassing part from the sequel trilogy where Lando introduces the galaxy to hot chocolate. Usually I'm not fond of focussing on details like that, but for me that was much worse than Greedo shooting first, especially given the praise that Zahn's books often receive from fans.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...Skippy the Jedi Droid.

So glad they wiped the whole EU and started fresh. To the point above about Luuuuuuke and Jooooorruuuuuuus, even within the "good" EU stuff, the silliness was just out of control.

I remember a particularly embarrassing part from the sequel trilogy where Lando introduces the galaxy to hot chocolate.

Good lord. Does that mean what I think it means?

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...Skippy the Jedi Droid.

So glad they wiped the whole EU and started fresh. To the point above about Luuuuuuke and Jooooorruuuuuuus, even within the "good" EU stuff, the silliness was just out of control.

O.o

thank god that is dead!

I too think that it was the right thing from disney to set the EU back; they can basically cherry-pick from there; keep the good stuff, kill the skippies..

but seriously: how did skippy make it into -anything-?! was that okayed by the same guy who okayed the ewoks in ROTJ? and the 2 ewok-movies after that?!

and why didn't both guys get their drugs to keep them calm?!

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...Skippy the Jedi Droid.

So glad they wiped the whole EU and started fresh. To the point above about Luuuuuuke and Jooooorruuuuuuus, even within the "good" EU stuff, the silliness was just out of control.

I remember a particularly embarrassing part from the sequel trilogy where Lando introduces the galaxy to hot chocolate.

Good lord. Does that mean what I think it means?

I -hope- you mean this and not something.. worse..

can't see darth vader liking it. at all.

the emperor though might. *claps his old and wrinkled hands*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3fX2_bxEkg

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...Skippy the Jedi Droid.

So glad they wiped the whole EU and started fresh. To the point above about Luuuuuuke and Jooooorruuuuuuus, even within the "good" EU stuff, the silliness was just out of control.

I remember a particularly embarrassing part from the sequel trilogy where Lando introduces the galaxy to hot chocolate.

Good lord. Does that mean what I think it means?

Make of it what you will and don't shoot the messenger - I didn't write that stuff!

Just saying.

Starkiller base did exactly what it was meant to do.

The First Order did not lose.

Yeah, it did, but it didn't hold any weight in the movie. It's like "the emperor already dissolved the senate" line from ANH. In some story in the universe somewhere it matters, just not in this movie. None of the characters or plot required that planet to shoot other planets. It could have been a huge base somewhere and that would have worked.

It just felt tacked on.

Now, I love this movie and probably rank it 3rd in my personal list. But that's because almost all of the movies have useless bits that don't matter.

As to the poster that went on about JJ ruining everything. He basically illustrates one of the major factors I use to just ignore someone's opinion. JJ was the director and co-writer of this movie. He is in no way responsible for the future of Star Wars or the decisions Kennedy and Lucasfilm have made regarding canon. It stinks of preconceived hatreds and wanting things to be bad. I can go into any, ANY, Star Wars movie and rip it to shreds. Some are easier than others, but they're all susceptible.

Actually, cinema sins has already done that in YouTube. It's fun.

I think the big question was okay this movie didn't suck because it had the exact same plot and story-line as the episode 4. It is not to hard to retell a good story. But what about the next movie. You can't just copy paste Empire Strikes Back especially with the more recent movie already taking some parts from that movie. So the last movie wasn't bad but because it was a total rehash there is no guarantees that the next movie will be any good.

Oh and for the record, the Fast and Furious Trek is going to suck.

Is it just me or is there enirely too much trek talk on this forum.

For me this movie was great because of the emotional, character driven parts. The whole sequence with Rey scavenging and living a crappy life all without the character speaking until she frees BB from Teedo, that was great movie making, and great music too! Han and Leia, especially the last hug, Han confronting Kylo Ren, Finn and his whole story, all these are great and give this movie heart and depth beyond the recycled plot. Which was recycled but hey.

I will admit that there were a lot of things that made me go "again?" I really wish the attack on starkiller base wasn't in it because it's existence distracts from the far more interesting aspects of the film.

The best parts of TFA are when it isn't doing call backs.

Finn is a very fascinating character and isn't really like any character before in a Star Wars movie. Not confident but still competent, Finn's journey through the movie is unique and interesting.

Kylo Ren is also very interesting. Born of heroes, he probably had a lot to live up to. He tries to be intimidating but underneath his mask and clomping around in his boots, he is still young and vulnerable. You can see when Hux sees him without his mask, he is timid and tries to hide his face.

Rey is a huge callback to Luke, but her attitude and reactions are so different that the only thing they really have in common is that they are from a desert planet and they are strong with the force.

The escape from Jakku is an amazing action scene with great character development.

The Rathar encounter is unique and fun.

Is it just me or is there enirely too much trek talk on this forum.

JJ failed so hard people have to think of something else.

I didn't realize how bad The Force Awakens was until I read the complaints of a single bitter man child on the internet! My eyes have been opened!

Star Wars is ruined, I should probably smash all my stuff and never post on these forums again.

Star Wars is ruined, I should probably smash all my stuff

If you do so, please make a video so we can enjoy it along with you.

I didn't realize how bad The Force Awakens was until I read the complaints of a single bitter man child on the internet! My eyes have been opened!

Star Wars is ruined, I should probably smash all my stuff and never post on these forums again.

NO, don't smash your stuff!

BURN IT!!!

Like this guy did:

Man, can you imagine being an old skool warhammer player who doesn't like TFA?

Talk about "anger leads to hate."

I think the big question was okay this movie didn't suck because it had the exact same plot and story-line as the episode 4. It is not to hard to retell a good story. But what about the next movie. You can't just copy paste Empire Strikes Back especially with the more recent movie already taking some parts from that movie. So the last movie wasn't bad but because it was a total rehash there is no guarantees that the next movie will be any good.

Oh and for the record, the Fast and Furious Trek is going to suck.

I lost faith when Simon peg presented a script and the studio told him to dumb it down like the first two.

Now I like fast and furious 1,4,5,6 and 7 but not because they are good films they arnt they are really bad but they know it and have fun with it so I can watch it as brainless entertainment.

It's also fun guessing what super power vin will develop next.

But trek three I will not see.

Is it just me or is there enirely too much trek talk on this forum.

While I can't know what's in the hearts of men, I detect some JJ hating going on. Since he is also responsible for Trek, I think there is an attempt to tie the 2 together as an example of what a lousy film maker JJ is.

What I don't get is how this is supposed to prove JJ is a bad film maker since all 3 films are widely accepted as good movies.