Knowing that I'm in the minority, I still liked the Prequel sword fights more than the OT and TFA.

Prequels, with all their over the top choreography, they really made light-saber fighting look as the art of the Jedi. It's so much Force augmented jumping and stuff going on that it conveys the idea it is super-human.

In OT/TFA there is extremely little that you see on screen to suggest that a non Force-sensitive fencing master wouldn't beat the crap out of Vader, Luke, Kylo Ren and Rey at the same time in a lightsaber duel

Han and chewie saved the movie before they showed up it was sitting at 2/10 I hadn't smiled once and was pretty bored watching emo girl and Finn the ahole who at that point had done nothing to win me over.

Then Harrison Ford comes and brings his A game and makes it worth watching.

But even he couldn't make up for the lack of space combat, the predictable story line and kylo losing all threat when he removed his helmet.

It's an okay movie.

Knowing that I'm in the minority, I still liked the Prequel sword fights more than the OT and TFA.

Prequels, with all their over the top choreography, they really made light-saber fighting look as the art of the Jedi. It's so much Force augmented jumping and stuff going on that it conveys the idea it is super-human.

In OT/TFA there is extremely little that you see on screen to suggest that a non Force-sensitive fencing master wouldn't beat the crap out of Vader, Luke, Kylo Ren and Rey at the same time in a lightsaber duel

Those people are blinded by their own hate of the prequels.... I just ignore people when they have that opinion. Sure I think the OT lightsaber battles are as they should be....Guy in rigid armour not allowing for much flexibility, old guy who isn't really up for a long fight as he wants to go for a nap, and a newbie who doesn't know any different.

And in the new film, I see a small progression which I think suits where the "force" is at that current time. Doubt Ren has had many people to test his duelling skills.

For me Han and Chewie were a welcome relief, great chemistry as always and Ford gave a great performance. Poe needed more screen time, we needed to see how he got off Jakku. Rey is a great character and I look forward to her development. Finn is a woeful character, badly thought out and acted, however his brief interaction with BB8 did give me a chuckle. The First Order characters were bland and boring, where was the menace that Peter Cushing brought to Tarkin?

My sons and I are divided on this movie, I personally think that it will not stand up too well to repeated viewings, its flaws will only become more evident. I give it 2.5, the boys give it 4.

For a character given so much build up poe was anticlimactic and two dimensional, he got the princess Leia role but not half her character development or screen time.

I really felt the pacing was rushed. It never seemed to give you enough time to really get the impact of a scene before jumping to the next.

And I hated the super weapon. First off, when Alderaan was popped, when had Leia right there to give us a reason to care, to feel anguish. TFA gives us multiple planets, that we've never heard of or seen before and have no emotional investment in get crushed at the same time. Secondly, even when Yavin was under threat, it had meaning, because we'd already seen the ruthless evil of the Empire, and it was the intensity of the space battle and the fight to destroy the Death Star before the heroes got wiped out.

This just felt empty by comparison.

Knowing that I'm in the minority, I still liked the Prequel sword fights more than the OT and TFA.

Prequels, with all their over the top choreography, they really made light-saber fighting look as the art of the Jedi. It's so much Force augmented jumping and stuff going on that it conveys the idea it is super-human.

In OT/TFA there is extremely little that you see on screen to suggest that a non Force-sensitive fencing master wouldn't beat the crap out of Vader, Luke, Kylo Ren and Rey at the same time in a lightsaber duel

prequel sword fights are flashy and show-offy, but they're not really fights. They're great little choreographed dance-offs, but they evoke zero tension and zero idea of who's winning until some bull transpires to flip the tables (I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND). Ray Park going HAM as Darth Maul was the absolute pinnacle of those fights because of how badass the guy is, but even then the conclusion is sadly bull (I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND...wait)

plus, outside of Ray Park's enhanced choreography, all the twirling basically devolves into this

Grievous had by far the worst of the lot, though. A lot of spinning sabers; very little movement until the clones came in. I guess they couldn't get Ray Park in a second time to try and pull off the shenanigans of his animated incarnation

ANH: what tha, rebels, empire, princess who? Oh space ship, cool. BIG spaceship, is that the empire? I guess.

Lots of guys dying. Som British people. Robots! British robots? Ok Darth Vader is awesome.

WTF they didn't shoot the escape pod?! This movie sucks.

Slow desert scene, this sucks.

Cool, little rat dudes in cloaks and glowing eyes, watch out trashcan!

Hey who is this old guy a whiny kid!

That kid totally digs the hologram princess.

Double sunset with awesome music, ok this movie is cool again.

What another old guy, and he's British too? I thought the bad guys were Brits. Whatever

Laser sword awesome! They better have a cool fight later. WTF clone wars? Jedi Knights? I thought this was future space stuff!

Ew burned up skeletons. Oh yeah, the kid's aunt and uncle, bummer.

Ok alien bar. Wait, those aliens don't look that cool, well some do.

Laser sword! Aw, over too quick. That old guy is bad as though.

PARSEC ISNT TIME ITS DISTANCE! This movie sucks.

Cool space travel! Wait, that wasn't much of a space battle.

Oh no they blew up earth! Oh wait, some other planet. Sorry princess.

Slow, sneaking around. Wait, it's getting cool. Awesome, fun chase around a fun house! Smuggler and Princess hate each other. Whiny farm boy still has a chance! Bummer old guy got totally killed in that slow ass sword fight. I bet farmboy will fight that Vader guy at he end!

Ok I'm lost again, hey have to do what? Womprat?

There's no way these good guys are gonna make it.

Oh wait, yeah, he old guy gave the whiny kid magic.

Oh, total sequel bait, Vader got away without whiny boy fighting him.

Give Bigfoot his medal! Dammit!

It was ok, 3 outta 5.

ANH: what tha, rebels, empire, princess who? Oh space ship, cool. BIG spaceship, is that the empire? I guess.

Lots of guys dying. Som British people. Robots! British robots? Ok Darth Vader is awesome.

WTF they didn't shoot the escape pod?! This movie sucks.

Slow desert scene, this sucks.

Cool, little rat dudes in cloaks and glowing eyes, watch out trashcan!

Hey who is this old guy a whiny kid!

That kid totally digs the hologram princess.

Double sunset with awesome music, ok this movie is cool again.

What another old guy, and he's British too? I thought the bad guys were Brits. Whatever

Laser sword awesome! They better have a cool fight later. WTF clone wars? Jedi Knights? I thought this was future space stuff!

Ew burned up skeletons. Oh yeah, the kid's aunt and uncle, bummer.

Ok alien bar. Wait, those aliens don't look that cool, well some do.

Laser sword! Aw, over too quick. That old guy is bad as though.

PARSEC ISNT TIME ITS DISTANCE! This movie sucks.

Cool space travel! Wait, that wasn't much of a space battle.

Oh no they blew up earth! Oh wait, some other planet. Sorry princess.

Slow, sneaking around. Wait, it's getting cool. Awesome, fun chase around a fun house! Smuggler and Princess hate each other. Whiny farm boy still has a chance! Bummer old guy got totally killed in that slow ass sword fight. I bet farmboy will fight that Vader guy at he end!

Ok I'm lost again, hey have to do what? Womprat?

There's no way these good guys are gonna make it.

Oh wait, yeah, he old guy gave the whiny kid magic.

Oh, total sequel bait, Vader got away without whiny boy fighting him.

Give Bigfoot his medal! Dammit!

It was ok, 3 outta 5.

Basically what we'd say now, collectively.

Star Wars fans don't know how to be happy anymore, and it's extremely sad.

Nonsense.

A couple dorks are trying to get cool points by being cynical. They aren't any more representitive of "Star Wars" fans than the folks who go to see the films dozens of times.

fan is short for 'fanatic'; if that means I can only give ANY starwars-movie an 11 out of 10, or in this case a 7 out of 5 (ecxept the prequels, who have to get a -3/-7 by "true fans"), the else I'm not a fan .. ?! then sorry, the fan-crowd has officially lost me.

for some, the movie seems to be super-awesome³ - good for them.

for others, the movie maybe is the worst-thing-ever²³ - not good for them, but what can you do?

a few however, want to see more than black and white, criticize the bad and applaud the good, get an educated opinion..

being sarcastic about -people- and -their opinions- is NOT the same as being sarcastic about the movie. sorry, but some of those "fans", who just bash on everybody who doesn't share their opinion, really need to grow some manners / grow up.

pretty sad state of affairs, as we're all starwars-nuts here, playing xwing and all..

Nonsense.

A couple dorks are trying to get cool points by being cynical. They aren't any more representitive of "Star Wars" fans than the folks who go to see the films dozens of times.

Some guys that love it because it has the label they love on the tin. You can sell actual **** with a Star Wars logo on it and these guys will buy it and love it.

Some guys that hate it because it's not the totally awesome idea they would have done.

EDIT: It's also possible TFA was a victim of overhype, at least for me it was. Knowing Jar Jar's hit or miss track record with Star Trek I had low expectations. Until the week before the premiere I was hoping to see a decent movie at best. Had I walked into the cinema with that expectation I would say TFA was good (it would have exceeded my expectations). However, in the days before the premiere in my country, several reviews surfaced on the Internet (including opinions from friends who got in at press viewing) claiming it was awesome. So by the time I saw it, I was expecting awesome, and I left disappointed.

Nonsense.

A couple dorks are trying to get cool points by being cynical. They aren't any more representitive of "Star Wars" fans than the folks who go to see the films dozens of times.

I guess it's the curse of every successful franchise. No matter what you do you will always get two groups:

Some guys that love it because it has the label they love on the tin. You can sell actual **** with a Star Wars logo on it and these guys will buy it and love it.

Some guys that hate it because it's not the totally awesome idea they would have done.

Nonsense.

A couple dorks are trying to get cool points by being cynical. They aren't any more representitive of "Star Wars" fans than the folks who go to see the films dozens of times.

I guess it's the curse of every successful franchise. No matter what you do you will always get two groups:

Some guys that love it because it has the label they love on the tin. You can sell actual **** with a Star Wars logo on it and these guys will buy it and love it.

Some guys that hate it because it's not the totally awesome idea they would have done.

3 groups, actually - those with enough emotional or intellectual maturity to be able to apply their own critical judgement. I'm a huge Star Wars fan (like all of us) but that doesn't mean I have to be blind to flaws OR critical for the sake of coolness. Breaking fans out into binary choices further pushes stereotypes and what leads to Star Wars fans being unable to have exchanges of views without resorting to entrenched positions, stereotyping and name calling.

I didn't mean all fans are part of thise two groups. I meant these two groups will always exists, regardless if the majority of the fans (who fall in the middle between these two) like, are unimpressed or hate something

Got it, thanks for the clarity and yes, agreed that those opposite poles will always exist. And somewhere in between are the rest of us

fan is short for 'fanatic'; if that means I can only give ANY starwars-movie an 11 out of 10, or in this case a 7 out of 5 (ecxept the prequels, who have to get a -3/-7 by "true fans"), the else I'm not a fan .. ?! then sorry, the fan-crowd has officially lost me.

for some, the movie seems to be super-awesome³ - good for them.

for others, the movie maybe is the worst-thing-ever²³ - not good for them, but what can you do?

a few however, want to see more than black and white, criticize the bad and applaud the good, get an educated opinion..

being sarcastic about -people- and -their opinions- is NOT the same as being sarcastic about the movie. sorry, but some of those "fans", who just bash on everybody who doesn't share their opinion, really need to grow some manners / grow up.

pretty sad state of affairs, as we're all starwars-nuts here, playing xwing and all..

Whoa hold on now.

I never played the true fans card.

I HOPE YOU ARE NOT AS F'ED UP AS THIS SAD SONG...

Han and chewie saved the movie before they showed up it was sitting at 2/10 I hadn't smiled once and was pretty bored watching emo girl and Finn the ahole who at that point had done nothing to win me over.

Then Harrison Ford comes and brings his A game and makes it worth watching.

But even he couldn't make up for the lack of space combat, the predictable story line and kylo losing all threat when he removed his helmet.

It's an okay movie.

Kylo Ren without his helm looking awkward and pathetic was a genius move. You could see the shame and embarrassment on his face when General Hux walked in on his conference with Snoke.

And where would the sympathy for Han and Leia be for wanting their son back if he looked like a grizzled badass?

If Kylo Ren was the ultimate badass, how believable would it be that he was being manipulated and not just evil by choice?

fan is short for 'fanatic'; if that means I can only give ANY starwars-movie an 11 out of 10, or in this case a 7 out of 5 (ecxept the prequels, who have to get a -3/-7 by "true fans"), the else I'm not a fan .. ?! then sorry, the fan-crowd has officially lost me.

for some, the movie seems to be super-awesome³ - good for them.

for others, the movie maybe is the worst-thing-ever²³ - not good for them, but what can you do?

a few however, want to see more than black and white, criticize the bad and applaud the good, get an educated opinion..

being sarcastic about -people- and -their opinions- is NOT the same as being sarcastic about the movie. sorry, but some of those "fans", who just bash on everybody who doesn't share their opinion, really need to grow some manners / grow up.

pretty sad state of affairs, as we're all starwars-nuts here, playing xwing and all..

Whoa hold on now.

I never played the true fans card.

I never dropped your name anyhwere (nor did I have you in mind when typing.. ).

there are others that do ("how can you not agree..?!") between the lines, and the whole thing gets quite repetitive; the "its the best thing ever"group wants to hear no critique, the "its the worst thing ever"group wants to see no ray of light, the crowd in between just talks to the hand/wall when trying to connect to the other two..

the worst thing about it: that'd be okay on a "movie-x-fan" site; here, we're all starwars-nerds, for better or worse. we should at least tolerate the rest of us instead of twisting and turning each other's words. anyway.. think "I'm done here" - concerning the movie, that is

I really felt the pacing was rushed. It never seemed to give you enough time to really get the impact of a scene before jumping to the next.

And I hated the super weapon. First off, when Alderaan was popped, when had Leia right there to give us a reason to care, to feel anguish. TFA gives us multiple planets, that we've never heard of or seen before and have no emotional investment in get crushed at the same time. Secondly, even when Yavin was under threat, it had meaning, because we'd already seen the ruthless evil of the Empire, and it was the intensity of the space battle and the fight to destroy the Death Star before the heroes got wiped out.

This just felt empty by comparison.

This attack didn't serve the same purpose. Starkiller destroying many planets was not for us to care and have pity but for the setting of the galaxy. Now we know that the New Republic is crippled. It sets the Resistance as the last line of defense against the New Order.

While it doesn't have the same impact as when Alderaan got destroyed, it sets the scene for Episode 8+. What we don't really know though, is how much the New Order is crippled now that Starkiller is destroyed.

The best film of the year is Mad Max.

You'd have to be completely disconnected from reality to think otherwise. You'd basically be a sub-human, and would do the world a favor by self immolating.

This isn't opinion, it is fact, verified by film scientists.

Star Wars was pretty good too.

And so the fanbase shatters...

Other problems with TFA...

- Rey, a scavenger, can pilot the Falcon, a ship she considers junk and has never been in.

- the Falcon starts after sitting as junk for years in a scrap heap.

- Finn, a sanitation Stormtrooper who cannot bring himself to kill, mows down his own fellow Stormtroopers without a problem.

- untrained Rey can do Jedi mind tricks and defeat a Sith lord in a lightsaber battle.

- Falcon crashlands on Starkiller planet within walking distance of where they need to be.

- Rey is being held prisoner right next to the shield generators that need to be knocked out.

I can go on but this movie sucks so bad just thinking about it makes me want to puke.

Thanks to Disney and JJ Abrams for killing Star Wars for me.

let me just point some things out:

- Anakin was able to pilot a Nabooian fighter without any training and took out a droid control ship in Episode 1

- Anakin and Luke were able to use the Force without any training on how to use it. Remember Anakin having precognition to pilot podracers? then Anakin being tested at the Jedi Temple and Luke pulling the lightsaber out of ice. there's presidence for people being able to use the Force without any training.

- Ren is NOT a Sith Lord. He is dark side and has more experience with lightsabers than Rey does. but Snoke mentioned he wasn't fully trained and he did suffer some significant injuries prior to fighting Rey.

- the Falcon crash lands on Starkiller Base, but was clearly still flyable. how do you know they didn't fly to a closer location after the initial landing?

- how do you know Rey was being held next to the shield generators? the movie made it clear that Rey and Han's group were sneaking around quite a bit.

I will say what is up with the whole 3 letter names. Poe, Fin, Ren? Is 3 the new 4?

The best film of the year is Mad Max.

You'd have to be completely disconnected from reality to think otherwise. You'd basically be a sub-human, and would do the world a favor by self immolating.

This isn't opinion, it is fact, verified by film scientists.

Star Wars was pretty good too.

Amen to that.

I walked out of fury road grinning from ear to ear (occasionaly whooping "itness me!").

I walked out of TFA in a foul mood.

Now most of that is becuz of Han kicking the bucket, but there were "other things"aswell.

TFA isn't bad, Its way better than the prequals (low bar there) but It's not on par with the OT. So I chucked it on the "saga" pile (epsI to VII including the special editions of the OT) and I view the OT as a seperate trilogy altogether.