Short version:

Glaive Squadron Pilot, Ion Cannon, Predator, TIE-D title... 40 points (est.)

Glaive Squadron Pilot, Ion Cannon, Predator, TIE-D title... 40 points (est.)

Scimitar Squadron pilot, TIE Shuttle, Intelligence Agent, Mara Jade... 20 points

Long version:

I'm really excited about Imperial Veterans! Even with the incomplete information available to us I can't help but speculate and theorize and come up with kooky list ideas.

Before we start, let's hand it to FFG. They understood the ways people had been occasionally running Defenders (namely named pilots with HLCs) and, rather than emphasize that, added a fix to create completely new styles. I like it.

The Defender always faced two problems. The first was that its expense meant it had to do large amounts of damage to justify its cost, but it was largely unable to inflict that level of damage without upgrades, spiraling the cost again. The second was that the HLC was the only cannon upgrade that made sense, for a lot of the same reasons: Ion and Flechettes don't do much damage, making the Defender a poor return on points investment, and a Mangler is 5 points for only a bare upgrade from the Defender's excellent primary. The two new titles do an excellent job addressing both of these problems in interesting ways.

Let's take maximum advantage of these gifts.

First we'll start with Glaive Squadron Pilots. We haven't seen specifics of what these might be, but given other ships' pilot lineups, the most probable pilot is a PS6 with EPT slot. This is the precedent we see from other TIE models and it makes sense. That's where the hole is in the current price structure of the Defender-- that big gap between the PS3 generic at 32 and Vesseery at 35. If so, a Glaive is probably 33 or 34 points. We can work with this.

Glaive Squadron Pilot, TIE-D title, Ion Cannon, Predator-- 40 points.

(That's assuming a 34 point base-- if it's 33, add TIE Engines Mk. II and call it a day.)

Predator makes a ton of sense on a TIE-D. It works on both the cannon and primary attacks while freeing up the inevitable Focus token for use on defense-- an important consideration for a ship that isn't exactly an arc-dodger. The Ion Cannon is delightful for setting up a 4K and modified 4-dice primary, while the extra Ion shots keep the target locked down. The Glaive, then, is acting as both the set-up and the finisher.

What's that? Large ships take two ions to lock down? Why, let's take another Glaive for another 40 points! This gives just enough space to add in one support ship. Let's see-- we've got Ion shots, we've got good damage-- now we just have to take away actions to completely shut our enemies down. But we only have 20 points left, which is only enough for one Academy, not the two we'd really like. Let's go back to Imperial Veterans and dig up something a little... different.

TIE Bomber: Scimitar Squadron Pilot, TIE Shuttle, Intelligence Agent, Mara Jade

This is the last ingredient for our control mix. Combine the low PS, the Intel Agent, and the ship's Barrel Roll to get blocks in (which also preserves the Scimitar from getting shot), then watch Mara Jade stress the enemy out. The combined stress and Ion effects will take one or two foes completely out of the fight, while the others won't be able to turn around. On the subsequent turn, the Defenders 4K to focus down their respective targets and use a mixture of ion and stress effects to avoid getting shot at again, while the TIE Shuttle just concentrates on staying within range 1 without regard to arc (in theory it wouldn't have to ever fire at all).

One thing that might be situationally useful is that the TIE-D's ion and primary attacks can be at different targets. If your odds of scoring a kill with your primary are good enough, you could move on to Ioning other foes. There's risk there but also great potential.

I call this list the Wolfpack because of the double Predator and, more importantly, because of the imagery: when it works, the Defenders chase down ships that are trying vainly to flee, while the Shuttle adds confusion and panic.

Thoughts?

*Edited to compensate for blindness.

First we'll start with Glaive Squadron Pilots. We haven't seen specifics of what these might be, but given other ships' pilot lineups, the most probable pilot is a PS4 with EPT slot.

We can clearly see in the preview post spread, that the Glaive Squadron Pilot is PS 6:

I agree with the 34 pts base cost assumption for this pilot, as Col. Vessery is 35 pts (at PS 6 no less) and the Glaive comes without a native skill.

We will have to see, but I do like your list and reasoning behind it, definitely going to give this a spin

Short version:

Glaive Squadron Pilot, Ion Cannon, Predator, TIE-D title... 40 points (est.)

Glaive Squadron Pilot, Ion Cannon, Predator, TIE-D title... 40 points (est.)

Scimitar Squadron pilot, TIE Shuttle, Intelligence Agent, Mara Jade... 20 points

As Lt Rico says, Glaive is PS 6 for sure. So that means it looks like the defender's equivalent of a Royal Guard (PS 6 w/ EPT). And yeah, I agree 34 points seems likeliest.

As for the list, I like it. I think Glaive + TIE/D, ion cannon & predator is a solid use of 40 points. Decent control and firepower. With the last 20 points, there's a couple different options, but Mara Jade on a TIE shuttle is really the only way to enhance the control aspect of such a list at that cost point. I will definitely be trying some different options myself, such as the lowly Alpha interceptor w/ autothrusters as ultimate blocker, and a TIE/fo generic w/ comm relay as blocker/nuisance.

Another option for slightly more firepower at the expense of control is a Glaive w/ tractor beam, predator & TIE/D (38 pts) plus a Glaive w/ flechette, predator & TIE/D (39 pts). That gives you 23 points for a 3rd ship. There's not much more you can do there though. We'll have to see the rest of the Tractor Beam card to see if it comes with any downsides. As it is now though, its pretty good for giving a slight boost in firepower (the -1 agility ain't bad for a 1 pt cannon in conjunction with the TIE/D title, as long as its your first ship firing).

Well I believe it's still little early to say if the Defender glaive pilot will have an elite slot

Second not sure what the other pilot will consist of pilot ability wise

I've been leaning on the fence of having vessery with an ion Cannon teamed up with 3 scimitar bombers with Tactician and Mara jade, Rebel captive and Intel agent on each.

I played against vessery and Rex with this new title and they were pretty awesome

However vessery will have a target lock for both attacks.

Even better than spending the 3 pts for predator.

3 bombers that can target lock giving vessery that offense boost, and add to it lots of stress paired with vessery and his ion.

I believe this will be the next panic attack build

I may try this tonight or tomorrow

wolfpack???3 ships???? more like half a dog sled team

LTRico:

Thanks. Apparently I'm blind. But 34 points is probably still a safe starting point given that Vessery has a native ability and an EPT at 35.

Blade:

I really wanted the TIE Shuttle over a generic Interceptor or TIE/Fo for the stress to nail that coveted Ion + Stress combo platter. The trick of course is that a TIE Bomber maxes out at a 4 Ahead and doesn't boost, so going from out of range to in the way in one turn might be hard. (Maybe a 3 Bank into a barrel roll... hm.) Will need to playtest to see if that's insane or not.

As for the tractor beam... the Tractor Beam, it occurs to me, is more powerful the more attacks it affects. Two Defenders and the TIE Shuttle, like this, would be getting three subsequent attacks, four tops... let's say three. By taking away one defense die, you're adding 3/8ths of a hit to each of those attacks, for a grand total of 9/8ths damage. Looking at it like that, I think I'd rather have the ion, especially since I need two Ions to lock down a large ship. I think that's particularly crucial to the Bro-bots matchup. Against high-agility aces, a tractor beam might help an attack get through, yes, but one ion getting through against someone like Soontir is a death sentence all by itself, and this way I have two ships that will each have a shot at it.

Krynn:

That list... looks like it could get some good stress going on the turn it works, but Vessery is the only source of damage. After his primary (admittedly a nice primary), you have one Ion and a grand total of three two-dice attacks. I don't know. One of the reasons Panic Attack worked so well was that the B-Wing was also a heavy-hitter in its own right. I'm not sure trying to duplicate that with TIEs will work. It might-- it's early.

Cubby:

Wolfpacks don't have to be large. In the submarine battles of the World Wars, submarine wolfpacks were often large on paper, but were spread over so much ocean that they couldn't concentrate more than a few of them on any given convoy. Nevertheless, if you were a merchant in a convoy attacked by three submarines, you had no doubt that it was a wolfpack attacking you! Also, multiple ships (with Predator, no less) working as a team to isolate individuals from the herd and murder them... yeah, it works.

you may want to check your facts on u-boat/merchant convoy encounters during WW2. see also convoy hx 229/ sc 122

LTRico:

Thanks. Apparently I'm blind. But 34 points is probably still a safe starting point given that Vessery has a native ability and an EPT at 35.

Blade:

I really wanted the TIE Shuttle over a generic Interceptor or TIE/Fo for the stress to nail that coveted Ion + Stress combo platter. The trick of course is that a TIE Bomber maxes out at a 4 Ahead and doesn't boost, so going from out of range to in the way in one turn might be hard. (Maybe a 3 Bank into a barrel roll... hm.) Will need to playtest to see if that's insane or not.

As for the tractor beam... the Tractor Beam, it occurs to me, is more powerful the more attacks it affects. Two Defenders and the TIE Shuttle, like this, would be getting three subsequent attacks, four tops... let's say three. By taking away one defense die, you're adding 3/8ths of a hit to each of those attacks, for a grand total of 9/8ths damage. Looking at it like that, I think I'd rather have the ion, especially since I need two Ions to lock down a large ship. I think that's particularly crucial to the Bro-bots matchup. Against high-agility aces, a tractor beam might help an attack get through, yes, but one ion getting through against someone like Soontir is a death sentence all by itself, and this way I have two ships that will each have a shot at it.

Krynn:

That list... looks like it could get some good stress going on the turn it works, but Vessery is the only source of damage. After his primary (admittedly a nice primary), you have one Ion and a grand total of three two-dice attacks. I don't know. One of the reasons Panic Attack worked so well was that the B-Wing was also a heavy-hitter in its own right. I'm not sure trying to duplicate that with TIEs will work. It might-- it's early.

Cubby:

Wolfpacks don't have to be large. In the submarine battles of the World Wars, submarine wolfpacks were often large on paper, but were spread over so much ocean that they couldn't concentrate more than a few of them on any given convoy. Nevertheless, if you were a merchant in a convoy attacked by three submarines, you had no doubt that it was a wolfpack attacking you! Also, multiple ships (with Predator, no less) working as a team to isolate individuals from the herd and murder them... yeah, it works.

But the bombers are tanky and have two evade dice.

I've seen them survive a lot. More than one would think.

But your right that's what was great about the b was it's dmg

However with this list it has a few other elements that the b doesn't have

Rebel captive

A great deterrent, but fly aggressive and it's hard to ignore

Mara jade

Get into range 1 and nothing is kturning, nor going very far.

Intel agent

Let's you see where that pesky ace is going

Vessery

Flying behind the pack and sniping, has better dmg output than the stressbot

Edit

Actually an idea I had earlier would be put tracker beam on vessery

If he hits he'll reduce the agility of a ship for a round, and that will make it easier for the bombers to get dmg through

I'd still keep the stress mechanic just to be a pain