Were Knights just Mounted Infantry?

The difference between Mounted Infantry and Cavalry is the latter is trained to fight from a mounted position. Mounted infantry would dismount to actually fight. In the case of Speeder Bike pilots, as long as the fight was mobile they'd fight from Speeder. They could dismount and fight on the ground, but only if the battle required it.

You would need to read the post before mine to understand the point I was making. I think you are agreeing that speeder bike pilots aren't just infantry that use the speeder as a means of transport? Which was the point I was making. There's an obvious difference between soldiers riding to battle on a horse and dismounting to fight (dragoons I think they were called?) versus cavalry that road to battle on a horse and stayed in the saddle during the fight.

The military makeup of the Star Wars universe is both tip-of-the-hat and very obviously influenced by the Allied and Axis armed forces. Given that Lucas, Kasdan, and all the other writers and designers on the original trilogy are/were baby boomers who got their inspiration from watching old March of Time news reels - along with ripping off Flash Gordon and Kurosawa - this shouldn't even be a point of contention.

All of the original trilogy films show enlisted Imperial military forces that aren't stormtroopers. The guys in black uniforms and bucket helmets guarding the detention block in A New Hope were obviously nods to Nazi SS soldiers, given their association with concentration camps and prisons. They do show up again in Empire and Jedi as guards on Star Destroyers. So it makes sense, given the Death Star is a space-borne vessel, that these guys would be Naval security forces/troopers.

The guys driving the AT-ST in Jedi , who were wearing gray and had goggles on their helmets, were a visual nod to German tank drivers and German infantry. We also see some soldiers on the ground on Endor mixed in with the stormtroopers and the officers and in the bunker, just prior to the Ewok sneak attack. They also popped up in the background in Empire . Those are your Imperial Army troopers.

German SA stormtroopers had a political allegiance to the Nazi party, not just the German military, so it makes sense that Imperial stormtroopers are directly allied with the Emperor. In all the films, and in Rebels , they're always running around on foot or on light motorized vehicles. If the Empire is going to send someone to fight man-to-man with small squad tactics - which is how the Rebellion typically fights - they're going to send a stormtrooper.

I'm new here and my first post. In the main rule (Edge of Empire) it talks about Imperial Amy but they didn't list the stats for soldiers in the back. Where can I find them?

Stormtroopers are too iconic not to use whenever you have an excuse, in my opinion. You show anyone who knows anything about Star Wars a stormtrooper and they'll instantly recognize that armor. You show them an Imperial army trooper, they'll most likely cock their head.

Besides which, I never much liked the handwaving and bending over backwards to try and paint stormtroopers as some kind of elite SS Tier One Operators in the books while in the movies they get ganked by Ewoks and nineteen year old farmboys. I can buy the old clones being badass cutting edge supersoldiers, but stormtroopers always struck me as conscripts.

Actually, I like to think of them much the same way as I think of TIE Fighter pilots: 99% of them get smoked on their first mission, but the 1% who don't are the ones you watch out for. Those are the ones who end up with red paint on their wings or black armor.

Stormtroopers are too iconic not to use whenever you have an excuse, in my opinion. You show anyone who knows anything about Star Wars a stormtrooper and they'll instantly recognize that armor. You show them an Imperial army trooper, they'll most likely cock their head.

Besides which, I never much liked the handwaving and bending over backwards to try and paint stormtroopers as some kind of elite SS Tier One Operators in the books while in the movies they get ganked by Ewoks and nineteen year old farmboys. I can buy the old clones being badass cutting edge supersoldiers, but stormtroopers always struck me as conscripts.

Actually, I like to think of them much the same way as I think of TIE Fighter pilots: 99% of them get smoked on their first mission, but the 1% who don't are the ones you watch out for. Those are the ones who end up with red paint on their wings or black armor.

I know I'm repeating myself a bit here, but... that disconnect between how the Stormtroopers are depicted and their rep really reminds me of their historical antecedents. Most SS troops weren't elites, they were chosen for their appearance and ideology, and then lavished with the best equipment and support. Only a few units of that organization were actually elite, despite the reputation.

I don't see a need for a regular Imperial Army because they're the grunts to the Stormtrooper actual elite, but rather because they're the regular army that stands in contrast to the skull-helmed " New Order Elite" who serve as the pointy end of Palpatine and Tarkin's "rule by fear" doctrine. In this view, most Stormtroopers aren't any more skilled than the average IA troopers, they're just far more deeply indoctrinated and given the very latest gear and the best support in the field. They're the true believers, who will charge down a docking tube into enemy fire without hesitation and die for their Emperor.

"Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" implies a lot more in that light...

Stormtroopers are too iconic not to use whenever you have an excuse, in my opinion. You show anyone who knows anything about Star Wars a stormtrooper and they'll instantly recognize that armor. You show them an Imperial army trooper, they'll most likely cock their head.

Besides which, I never much liked the handwaving and bending over backwards to try and paint stormtroopers as some kind of elite SS Tier One Operators in the books while in the movies they get ganked by Ewoks and nineteen year old farmboys. I can buy the old clones being badass cutting edge supersoldiers, but stormtroopers always struck me as conscripts.

Actually, I like to think of them much the same way as I think of TIE Fighter pilots: 99% of them get smoked on their first mission, but the 1% who don't are the ones you watch out for. Those are the ones who end up with red paint on their wings or black armor.

I know I'm repeating myself a bit here, but... that disconnect between how the Stormtroopers are depicted and their rep really reminds me of their historical antecedents. Most SS troops weren't elites, they were chosen for their appearance and ideology, and then lavished with the best equipment and support. Only a few units of that organization were actually elite, despite the reputation.

I don't see a need for a regular Imperial Army because they're the grunts to the Stormtrooper actual elite, but rather because they're the regular army that stands in contrast to the skull-helmed " New Order Elite" who serve as the pointy end of Palpatine and Tarkin's "rule by fear" doctrine. In this view, most Stormtroopers aren't any more skilled than the average IA troopers, they're just far more deeply indoctrinated and given the very latest gear and the best support in the field. They're the true believers, who will charge down a docking tube into enemy fire without hesitation and die for their Emperor.

"Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" implies a lot more in that light...

That is actually an even better explanation than the one I used so far! And I am german, so I feel ashamed that I didn't see these obvious parallels. Of course, the whole shebang behind the stormies is the doctrine of fear. That works perfect for me, I am gonna adapt that!

Besides which, I never much liked the handwaving and bending over backwards to try and paint stormtroopers as some kind of elite SS Tier One Operators in the books while in the movies they get ganked by Ewoks and nineteen year old farmboys. I can buy the old clones being badass cutting edge supersoldiers, but stormtroopers always struck me as conscripts.

Stormtroopers are elite in the same way the US Marines are elite. There's a higher bar for entry because they're all dedicated infantrymen, the old "every Marine is a rifleman" adage. But that doesn't mean they're badarsed British SAS operators/Navy SEALS/whatever. They're just very good. The West End Games D6 version introduced the storm commando concept, which fits that special forces mold. It remains to be seen if this makes it into canon.

That is actually an even better explanation than the one I used so far! And I am german, so I feel ashamed that I didn't see these obvious parallels. Of course, the whole shebang behind the stormies is the doctrine of fear. That works perfect for me, I am gonna adapt that!

COMPNOR would be your Nazi party analog for the Star Wars universe, with COMPFORCE acting as your paramilitary SA Brownshirts. They even have their own not-at-all-disguised version of the Hitler youth, the Sub-Adult Group (SAGroup). It makes sense that stormtroopers would be recruited out of this environment as COMPNOR members are fanatically loyal.

Besides which, I never much liked the handwaving and bending over backwards to try and paint stormtroopers as some kind of elite SS Tier One Operators in the books while in the movies they get ganked by Ewoks and nineteen year old farmboys. I can buy the old clones being badass cutting edge supersoldiers, but stormtroopers always struck me as conscripts.

Stormtroopers are elite in the same way the US Marines are elite. There's a higher bar for entry because they're all dedicated infantrymen, the old "every Marine is a rifleman" adage. But that doesn't mean they're badarsed British SAS operators/Navy SEALS/whatever. They're just very good. The West End Games D6 version introduced the storm commando concept, which fits that special forces mold. It remains to be seen if this makes it into canon.

That is actually an even better explanation than the one I used so far! And I am german, so I feel ashamed that I didn't see these obvious parallels. Of course, the whole shebang behind the stormies is the doctrine of fear. That works perfect for me, I am gonna adapt that!

COMPNOR would be your Nazi party analog for the Star Wars universe, with COMPFORCE acting as your paramilitary SA Brownshirts. They even have their own not-at-all-disguised version of the Hitler youth, the Sub-Adult Group (SAGroup). It makes sense that stormtroopers would be recruited out of this environment as COMPNOR members are fanatically loyal.

Thanks a lot for that! Gonna implement that into my Campaign right now. This creates an even better atmosphere for my Rebel campaign. And it hasn't started yet, which means I still have time to implement it! This has been a thread full of retreads and repeatings, but in the end the grinder spit out a diamond for me.

Oh and I understand what you mean by the Marines! In Germany the equivalent would be the Gebirgsjäger, which is directly translated to Mountain Hunter. Feldjäger is the "standard" Infantry of the Bundeswehr, Panzergrenadiere are the mechanized infantry. The Gebirgsjäger are considered somewhat elite here.

I wasn't planning on bringing back this topic but, I just received the "Imperial Handbook: A Commander's Guide". It was published in 2015 and it has a Disney logo on it. So i'm assuming it's canon. In the handbook it shows the Imperial Army Trooper uniform as being similar to General Veers uniform in the AT-AT during the Empire Strikes Back. They also show the Vehicle Command Crewer (Heavy Armor) as the crewman next to General Veers in the same scene. (funny, I thought they were Stormtroopers). The last uniform they show is the Vehicle Command Crewer (Armored Cavalry). It's the same uniform as the crewman in the AT-ST that C hewbacca steals in the Return of the Jedi. They don't show the Imperial Commando uniform. It just says it reflects their status.

I wasn't planning on bringing back this topic but, I just received the "Imperial Handbook: A Commander's Guide". It was published in 2015 and it has a Disney logo on it. So i'm assuming it's canon. In the handbook it shows the Imperial Army Trooper uniform as being similar to General Veers uniform in the AT-AT during the Empire Strikes Back. They also show the Vehicle Command Crewer (Heavy Armor) as the crewman next to General Veers in the same scene. (funny, I thought they were Stormtroopers). The last uniform they show is the Vehicle Command Crewer (Armored Cavalry). It's the same uniform as the crewman in the AT-ST that C hewbacca steals in the Return of the Jedi. They don't show the Imperial Commando uniform. It just says it reflects their status.

Sadly, not Canon. It's Legends, according to a recent FB post.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/1/1f/Imperial_Handbook_Legends_Confirmation.png/revision/latest?cb=20140916044721

I wasn't planning on bringing back this topic but, I just received the "Imperial Handbook: A Commander's Guide". It was published in 2015 and it has a Disney logo on it. So i'm assuming it's canon. In the handbook it shows the Imperial Army Trooper uniform as being similar to General Veers uniform in the AT-AT during the Empire Strikes Back. They also show the Vehicle Command Crewer (Heavy Armor) as the crewman next to General Veers in the same scene. (funny, I thought they were Stormtroopers). The last uniform they show is the Vehicle Command Crewer (Armored Cavalry). It's the same uniform as the crewman in the AT-ST that C hewbacca steals in the Return of the Jedi. They don't show the Imperial Commando uniform. It just says it reflects their status.

Sadly, not Canon. It's Legends, according to a recent FB post.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/1/1f/Imperial_Handbook_Legends_Confirmation.png/revision/latest?cb=20140916044721

To bad. I wonder why they would still be producing "Legends" material?

I wasn't planning on bringing back this topic but, I just received the "Imperial Handbook: A Commander's Guide". It was published in 2015 and it has a Disney logo on it. So i'm assuming it's canon. In the handbook it shows the Imperial Army Trooper uniform as being similar to General Veers uniform in the AT-AT during the Empire Strikes Back. They also show the Vehicle Command Crewer (Heavy Armor) as the crewman next to General Veers in the same scene. (funny, I thought they were Stormtroopers). The last uniform they show is the Vehicle Command Crewer (Armored Cavalry). It's the same uniform as the crewman in the AT-ST that C hewbacca steals in the Return of the Jedi. They don't show the Imperial Commando uniform. It just says it reflects their status.

Sadly, not Canon. It's Legends, according to a recent FB post.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/1/1f/Imperial_Handbook_Legends_Confirmation.png/revision/latest?cb=20140916044721

To bad. I wonder why they would still be producing "Legends" material?

Because someone's buying it.

In all likelihood the book was already in the publishing pipeline when the Lucas purchase went through. The book came out soon after it.

In all likelihood the book was already in the publishing pipeline when the Lucas purchase went through. The book came out soon after it.

That's almost certainly the case, given the timing.

Which isn't to say the content isn't worth considering. But for the "orthodox" in the group, well...it's fairly sealed up.

So many people try to equate star wars soldiers and such to modern military contrivances; personally, the empire more resembles 18th century British practices than modern army ones.

Just my $.02 but when I think of Imperial Army Grunts I imagine something like this

Lighter armor, partial helmet instead of totally encapsulating head gear, typical combat gear instead of stripped down "mission" specific load of the Stormtrooper etc.

Pretty impressive in their own right but obviously outclassed and out-intimidated by the guys in the white armor and death's head helmets.

On 12/26/2015 at 3:30 PM, Sturn said:

Pick what you believe in. Having been for and against existence of Army Troopers, I can attest there are very good arguments to support whichever side you wish to be on. It's your game.

I have been reading over a dozen threads related to Stormtroopers on two separate forums (EoTE/AoR) and I have seen your name repeatedly come up arguing for and against the existence of Army Troopers. It has been an educational experience seeing so many view points based on what a persons primary source material reference is. I have seen you debate with "Only what is in the Movies" up to "All current Canon materials" and everything in between, on the mater of the Imperial Army, Army Troopers, and how Stormies fit in the military.

...and I'm sure I will someday change my mind again. Currently still on the side of the "Army" being Stormtroopers and certain support elements while the black-clad "Security Troopers" are the only mook-infantry. The only way I'll probably change that is if we see the actual WEG-inspired Army Trooper turn up in a future Han Solo or Obi Wan spin-off movie. Stormtroopers have always been one of the coolest parts of Star Wars for me and thus an on-going debate of their organization and equipment between friends and even myself.

I'm currently going over a rework of my personal PDF breakdown of personnel in the Imperial Military inspired by Rogue One updates. It's quite hard making it all fit logically. There's such a mish-mash of uniforms and titles of branches/jobs even when limiting it to canon sources.

On 12/16/2017 at 11:36 AM, Sturn said:

I'm currently going over a rework of my personal PDF breakdown of personnel in the Imperial Military inspired by Rogue One updates. It's quite hard making it all fit logically. There's such a mish-mash of uniforms and titles of branches/jobs even when limiting it to canon sources.

I was recently at Barnes & Nobles and I was flipping threw the SW Rogue One Visual Guide; it has a lot of good information that might be of use to you. As inspiration if nothing else.

1 hour ago, Giorgio said:

I was recently at Barnes & Nobles and I was flipping threw the SW Rogue One Visual Guide; it has a lot of good information that might be of use to you. As inspiration if nothing else.

It's on top of the pile beside my desk.

Hi,

for me the imperial army was the army of a specific planet for garison.

like in ep I the naboo soldiers attacking the theed palace

greetings

H

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:36 AM, Sturn said:

I'm currently going over a rework of my personal PDF breakdown of personnel in the Imperial Military inspired by Rogue One updates. It's quite hard making it all fit logically. There's such a mish-mash of uniforms and titles of branches/jobs even when limiting it to canon sources.

Done: Personal Uniforms & Equipment of the Empire .

From the introduction adventure Trouble Brewing (Sorry if I repeat something someone said, Did a forum search for trouble brewing and got no hits)

Quote

There are 18 Imperial Army Troopers in total, two of whom are squad sergeants. Each has access to armored clothing and breastplates, a blaster rifle, and two frag grenades.

I guess that would be the standard gear for garrison duty, Squads of 8 grunts and 1 sgt. (unless they're decimated somehow.)

I know this isn't about the canon, but somehow it was part of the vision for the EoTE Corebook I guess!

Personally I will just go along with my old assumption, there's the army, the navy and the stormtrooper corps. Stormtroopers eliteness coming from speciialised tactics, superior indoctrination(!) and better equipment.

pg 418 of the AoR Core has Imperial Army info and adversary stats. If someone already mentioned this, my apologies for repeating.

On 1/4/2016 at 7:25 PM, Concise Locket said:

The military makeup of the Star Wars universe is both tip-of-the-hat and very obviously influenced by the Allied and Axis armed forces. Given that Lucas, Kasdan, and all the other writers and designers on the original trilogy are/were baby boomers who got their inspiration from watching old March of Time news reels - along with ripping off Flash Gordon and Kurosawa - this shouldn't even be a point of contention.

All of the original trilogy films show enlisted Imperial military forces that aren't stormtroopers. The guys in black uniforms and bucket helmets guarding the detention block in A New Hope were obviously nods to Nazi SS soldiers, given their association with concentration camps and prisons. They do show up again in Empire and Jedi as guards on Star Destroyers. So it makes sense, given the Death Star is a space-borne vessel, that these guys would be Naval security forces/troopers.

The guys driving the AT-ST in Jedi , who were wearing gray and had goggles on their helmets, were a visual nod to German tank drivers and German infantry. We also see some soldiers on the ground on Endor mixed in with the stormtroopers and the officers and in the bunker, just prior to the Ewok sneak attack. They also popped up in the background in Empire . Those are your Imperial Army troopers.

German SA stormtroopers had a political allegiance to the Nazi party, not just the German military, so it makes sense that Imperial stormtroopers are directly allied with the Emperor. In all the films, and in Rebels , they're always running around on foot or on light motorized vehicles. If the Empire is going to send someone to fight man-to-man with small squad tactics - which is how the Rebellion typically fights - they're going to send a stormtrooper.

Looking at the Endor scenes, I see Storm Troopers, Imperial Officers (in grey), Naval Officers (in black) and Naval Infantry (or marines?) in black with black goofy helmets.
I never explicitly see Imperial Army Infantry.

In my world, Storm Troopers are the Infantry of the Imperial Military... period.
There's Naval infantry too (Marines, I call them in my game), but they're basically just there to perform security operations on Naval installations.
Pretty much everyone else is some sort of NCO or officer.

In other words, if you want to be a fighter, you become a Storm Trooper.
If you want to have a military career without all the fighting, you become either Navy or Army, neither of which do much actual fighting and is used as a career ladder for most imperial upper class families. It's also where individuals with technical aptitude are put, albeit in the engineers instead.
If you want to fly, you become a Pilot in the Navy or Army (I separate those in my campaign, but that's just headcanon that not even the players know).