I'm not saying that it should change anyone's game. Do what you want. But according to canon sources, stormtroopers are supposed to be elite. Recently though they have also become the standard ubiquitous front-line troops with the stormtrooper corp under the Imperial Army ToC. The Imperial army trooper is still nothing more than legends material. Whether we ever actually see one remains to be seen. I think it doubtful as the look of stormtroopers screams Star Wars much more than some trooper in dungarees or something.

We've seen non-Stormtrooper infantry in Rebels .

We've seen non-Stormtrooper infantry in Rebels .

Do you remember the episode?

I'm not saying that it should change anyone's game. Do what you want. But according to canon sources, stormtroopers are supposed to be elite. Recently though they have also become the standard ubiquitous front-line troops with the stormtrooper corp under the Imperial Army ToC. The Imperial army trooper is still nothing more than legends material. Whether we ever actually see one remains to be seen. I think it doubtful as the look of stormtroopers screams Star Wars much more than some trooper in dungarees or something.

Never you said I should change my game, just a general comment. But I agree about stormtroopers screaming SW.

Right at the start of the series or in the little preview shorts, working with the two I posted the image of above.

Right at the start of the series or in the little preview shorts, working with the two I posted the image of above.

Oh you mean the speeder bike guys. I thought those were early versions of the scout troopers. I guess they could be non-ST army trooper. I don't know.

Right at the start of the series or in the little preview shorts, working with the two I posted the image of above.

The scene where they are harassing the fruit vendor or in a later episode?

https://youtu.be/jZn_TrwbPN8?t=3m13s

There's another unarmored infantry officer or NCO with the two named characters, and the bike pilots who definitely are not in the uniforms of Stormtroopers or Scout Troopers.

Or are we going to say that there's a "speeder bike corps", and ground-based NCOs (despite the fact that Stormtroopers have their own NCOs and field officers), but no ground infantry other than the Stormtroopers?

There are also other examples in the background of other episodes, I'll look when I have time.

Right at the start of the series or in the little preview shorts, working with the two I posted the image of above.

The scene where they are harassing the fruit vendor or in a later episode?

https://youtu.be/jZn_TrwbPN8?t=3m13s

There's another unarmored infantry officer or NCO with the two named characters, and the bike pilots who definitely are not in the uniforms of Stormtroopers or Scout Troopers.

Or are we going to say that there's a "speeder bike corps", and ground-based NCOs (despite the fact that Stormtroopers have their own NCOs and field officers), but no ground infantry other than the Stormtroopers?

There are also other examples in the background of other episodes, I'll look when I have time.

I still would consider the speeder bike guys scout troopers (I believe their look is based on some Mcquarrie stormtrooper art), but if we want to say that the army troopers are lightly armor guys that sort of look like stormtroopers then sure lets go for that.

There could be ground based non-NCOs that aren't stormtroopers. The support non-stormtrooper units will have heir own NCOs.

The guys in the uniforms are officers . Taskmaster Grint and Commandant Aresko are officers hence their uniforms. The pilots of the speeder bikes and the AT-DPs are a separate element from the stormtroopers, but are not considered infantry but more analogous with pilots or a mechanized unit.

The guys in the uniforms are officers . Taskmaster Grint and Commandant Aresko are officers hence their uniforms. The pilots of the speeder bikes and the AT-DPs are a separate element from the stormtroopers, but are not considered infantry but more analogous with pilots or a mechanized unit.

Makes sense.

The guys in the uniforms are officers . Taskmaster Grint and Commandant Aresko are officers hence their uniforms. The pilots of the speeder bikes and the AT-DPs are a separate element from the stormtroopers, but are not considered infantry but more analogous with pilots or a mechanized unit.

"Taskmaster" Grint is depicted in role and personality in a manner archetypically associated in fiction with "sergeants", including his role in the recruit training. The title of "taskmaster" would also imply some sort of drill sergeant. Also... you didn't link to a "taskmaster" page, you just linked to the "imperial officer" page.

There are also other, unnamed individuals in similar uniforms scattered throughout the series.

As for the bike-mounted soldiers, sorry, but that's just making an artificial distinction to avoid calling them what they are -- mounted infantry .

"Taskmaster" Grint is depicted in role and personality in a manner archetypically associated in fiction with "sergeants", including his role in the recruit training. The title of "taskmaster" would also imply some sort of drill sergeant. Also... you didn't link to a "taskmaster" page, you just linked to the "imperial officer" page.

Thanks fixed it.

There are also other, unnamed individuals in similar uniforms scattered throughout the series.

Also officers.

As for the bike-mounted soldiers, sorry, but that's just making an artificial distinction to avoid calling them what they are -- mounted infantry .

Which doeasn't make them ground pounders. There is a difference between mechanized infantry and infantry. There have been no instances of army troopers in canon. Mechanized army, yes. Officers, yes. But no instances of infantry troopers to date except in legends material.

Were Knights just Mounted Infantry?

Another piece of canon to consider:

The Imperial military is a direct descendant of the Grand Army of the Republic. We have 2 movies and several seasons of the Clone Wars, yet not once did we see a non-elite infantry mook trooper. It was all Clone Troopers and Clone Commandos for their Infantry. Then overnight it morphed into the Imperial military/army. Yes they could have added a non-Stormtrooper infantry mook later, but we are still left with never seeing such on screen or mentioned on screen in 4 movies and a couple Rebels seasons.

Who was the Republic's military before the Clone Troopers?

And we have seen them on screen, there's just a lot of "but but but those aren't" going on, excuses to avoid calling them what they plainly are.

Before the clones, they used Judicial Forces, a paramilitary police force.

Who was the Republic's military before the Clone Troopers?

And we have seen them on screen, there's just a lot of "but but but those aren't" going on, excuses to avoid calling them what they plainly are.

it's your story. Tell it any way you want to.

The reality these days is that the Imperial Army is the Stormtrooper Corp for its ground troops and a mechanized aspect. Doesn't mean you can't have army troopers if you want them. The Imperial handbook talks about them and is a great resource.

Who was the Republic's military before the Clone Troopers?

There wasn't one and that is why there was the Military Creation Act debate in Ep II.

Now all that being said, you can choose how you play them. They are referred to as the foot soldiers of the Empire in both the recent Ultimate Star Wars and Star Wars Rebels-The Visual Guide books. No reason they can't be both much there is a regular US Army and the US Army Rangers. As I said earlier I do this having two slightly different stat blocks for them.

This thread is starting to repeat, but I'll just note again that by any historical standards, the US army are elites. The amount of training, the level of equipment and the roles they fulfil... It's a level of investment and type of usage that only doesn't count as "elite" because the non-elite parts have been dropped. Infantry are no longer the basic type of force projection Western armies. Gone are the marching ranks of Napoleonic soldiers; out-gunned, out-manoeuvred and out-skilled are the Iraqi National Guards and any other lingering non-Western forces that can fight only their equivalents.

There probably are prized groups of stormtroopers with an especially good reputation and even more stringent acceptance criteria - like Vader's 501st which probably has a terrifying reputation even to other stormtroopers. These can be your rangers. But in a society of orbital superiority and routine flying vehicles, you only need elite infantry. Just like a US soldier today represents a level of financial investment that would buy a dozen Islamic State mercenaries for the next two years, storm troopers can be elite infantry compared to historical or planetary forces.

And we have seen them on screen, there's just a lot of "but but but those aren't" going on, excuses to avoid calling them what they plainly are.

I don't think anybody is making "excuses". The images posted for example showed officers who were seen on screen to give orders to stormtroopers. If they were some non-elite regular army they presumably would not be giving orders to the stormtroopers normally. And anyway, it was established by other means that they're officers who quite reasonably wouldn't necessarily be wearing armour around town.

As to bike pilots, I don't think they count as infantry full stop.

Who was the Republic's military before the Clone Troopers?

There wasn't one and that is why there was the Military Creation Act debate in Ep II.

Just to add more background to this if it seems that the Republic didn't have a big standing army, it was a republic of many worlds. Now many of those worlds had forces, but that didn't mean that the republic did. The republic didn't have a big outside enemy prior to the Clone Wars (well in olden times, but not recently). So no big standing army. It governed through economic power, consensus democracy and politicking. The systems (all the big ones, anyway) had representation in the Senate. It was more European Union than a single state. Albeit a European Union on a massive scale. The Military Creation Act was a very, very big deal. It represented a shift in the Republic from being, or at least being perceived as, this grand democracy ruling through consensus, to a more coercive, powerful entity in its own right. By refusing to accept the succession of the Separatists, the Republic moved from being a union to being a controlling over-power. Something which the creation of its own army was - for many - an ominous recognition of. Palpetines masterstroke was in both making the Separatist independence a violent struggle through the secret droid army that had built up, and in setting up the Jedi to be the ones who began it. The Jedi would - of course - be willing to destroy a bunch of machines created solely for war if it meant returning negotiations away from violence and back towards negotiations in the Senate through diplomatic means, to save the Republic.

It was just one small violation of their principles to save so much... after all.

Ok now all this talk has me wanting to create a new game set about 5 years after RotJ. It will center on the New Republic and their new armed forces the Alien Legion . Rather than having a Republic Army like the Clone or Empire army, they have one made up of the various species of the galaxy more like the earlier Republic Army in TOR. This way the Legion can deal with different threats throughout the galaxy without owing allegiance to any one species. For local matters they can be dealt with by a majority of local armed forces, but when problems cross borders or go to places where there is no government support.

My Imperial and Rebels adversary deck has an imperial army trooper and officer. They do come in handy

The guys in the uniforms are officers . Taskmaster Grint and Commandant Aresko are officers hence their uniforms. The pilots of the speeder bikes and the AT-DPs are a separate element from the stormtroopers, but are not considered infantry but more analogous with pilots or a mechanized unit.

"Taskmaster" Grint is depicted in role and personality in a manner archetypically associated in fiction with "sergeants", including his role in the recruit training. The title of "taskmaster" would also imply some sort of drill sergeant. Also... you didn't link to a "taskmaster" page, you just linked to the "imperial officer" page.

There are also other, unnamed individuals in similar uniforms scattered throughout the series.

As for the bike-mounted soldiers, sorry, but that's just making an artificial distinction to avoid calling them what they are -- mounted infantry .

Taskmaster Grint and Commandant Aresko have the same Rank Plaques and Cylinders that a "Commander" (Between a Captain and Major) would have. Aresko is either senior to Grint in time in grade or Grint really likes the job of Taskmaster (which basically sounds like "senior drill instructor")

Or the artists on Rebels copied the artwork from somewhere, without understanding the rank insignia.

Also, "commander" is about as muddled in usage and meaning as a "rank" can be in both Republic and Imperial military terminology.

Were Knights just Mounted Infantry?

The difference between Mounted Infantry and Cavalry is the latter is trained to fight from a mounted position. Mounted infantry would dismount to actually fight. In the case of Speeder Bike pilots, as long as the fight was mobile they'd fight from Speeder. They could dismount and fight on the ground, but only if the battle required it.