The section on the Empire mentions that the familiar Imperial Stormtrooper is actually a member of a special forces group, under the command of the Emporer, something similar to the SS under Hitler in WWII. It also mentions that the more conventional Imperial Army does the lion's share of patrolling, pacifying and garrisoning around the Galaxy.

Yet, we don't see much of these troops in any of the movies, other than officers and the like. Anyone have a link or some info on the typical Imperial grunts and their equipment?

These guys:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper

They've got access to all the same kind of gear as stormtroopers, just without the white armor.

I'm discussing the same issue with a friend of mine and we're both not really sure, if there is real proof for the existence of "imperial army troopers" in the new canon.

- We have the AT-ST pilots in episode 6... but why should they be imperial army troopers and not just... AT-ST-Pilots?

- We have General Veers in episode 5 in this armor. But he only has his uniform and some kind of bodyarmor and helmet... so proof for imperial army troopers? I don't know.

- Oh and we have some of these guys standing next to imperial officers during the arrival of the emperor on the deathstar... but they're like... i don't know 1/10 of all the guys tops. And no one is saying, they are imperial army troopers?

With the new canon I assume there are only stormtroopers and auxiliary troops (like pilots of starfighters, walkers etc., gunners). Which makes sense if you think the stormtroopers are the successors from the clone troopers and they were the only real army troops too.

I have always viewed the stormtroopers as the typical empirical grunts and never accepted that they were an elite force, even though the EU did. My stance was strengthened after the prequels.

I use the stats for them for the imperial "marines" or "fleet troopers". Those you actually see a lot on board the Star Destroyers and the Death Star. They have basically the same uniform only in black, a different helmet and no breastplate.

I still like the idea of Army troopers as a garrison type of thing. We only saw so many of the Stormies because we focused on theatres of war, where the best troops would be deployed. Think of all the other backwater unimportant planets. I doubt that there would be Stormtroopers everywhere. It would be a logistic nightmare to keep all those sealed suits of armor up and running!

Doesn't exist for me. Stormtroopers are the regular empire's grunts for me.

For a long time debates on this very forum convinced me that the Stormtrooper Corps were in fact the only imperial infantry (in the new canon at the very least).

BUT, I started to read Lords of the Sith, which is part of the new Disney canon. In that book, they not only mentionned the existence of the Stormtrooper Corps (which would imply that they are, in fact, separate from something else), but they actually mention that there are other imperial soldiers, mainly used for garrison purposes on low priority or quiet worlds. The book also says that it includes conscripts and enlisted, and that they are not recognized as a threat, in comparison to the Stormtroopers. I don't know how they look, and we don't see them fight in the book per say (although I'm not entirely done as of right now), but it confirms that they do exist. I'm under the impression that the Stormtroopers are usually the troops inside the stardestroyers, conquering planets and doing all the hard missions, including garrison duties in hot zones, while the imperial army is only brought in to keep relative control when the situation has cooled downed a bit.

For a long time debates on this very forum convinced me that the Stormtrooper Corps were in fact the only imperial infantry (in the new canon at the very least).

BUT, I started to read Lords of the Sith, which is part of the new Disney canon. In that book, they not only mentionned the existence of the Stormtrooper Corps (which would imply that they are, in fact, separate from something else), but they actually mention that there are other imperial soldiers, mainly used for garrison purposes on low priority or quiet worlds. The book also says that it includes conscripts and enlisted, and that they are not recognized as a threat, in comparison to the Stormtroopers. I don't know how they look, and we don't see them fight in the book per say (although I'm not entirely done as of right now), but it confirms that they do exist. I'm under the impression that the Stormtroopers are usually the troops inside the stardestroyers, conquering planets and doing all the hard missions, including garrison duties in hot zones, while the imperial army is only brought in to keep relative control when the situation has cooled downed a bit.

Bien sûr, mon ami! That is exactly the thing! Stormtroopers are for attacking (the name pretty much says it) and the army is just garrison.

So even if you agree as a roleplayer, that the army DOES exist, you will meet them very rarely in game either. Because you will most likely never run into trouble on planets where only the army is garrisoned as a smuggler or anything other than crime boss thugs, and on the planets under political turmoil you'll find the stormies again.

Maybe Rogue One will shed some light on the imperial army.

Personally, for the visuals, I treat the stormtrooper as the regular army trooper. And then there is the more elite version such as the 501st stormtrooper. Much like there are, for example, regular US army soldiers and then there are US army rangers. I differentiate them thusly .

I asked this a while ago, I got told by some people "They don't exist, you shouldn't use them, because they don't exist"

Which right royally annoyed me.

That at the fact the Imperial Army Sergent in the book has a different talent to the Stormtrooper Sergent. And is a very cool talent too.

Personally, I see the Stormtroopers as just that... Stormtroopers. Shock troops, the hard and fast hitting elite that go in first to the heavily armed targets.

And the Imperial Army deal with the lesser threats. We don't see them in the films, simply because the films depict the biggest and most important battles vs the Rebellion, not any of the smaller ones.

STs are the ones that boarded the Tantive, the ones that Stormed Hoth, the ones guarding the DS (The biggest and most powerful bases).

The Army in my mind, are the garrison troops, the ones who do the follow up and every day work of the military.

But thats just me.

Imperial Military - Rank and File

Stormtroopers - Navy SEALs, SAS, Royal Marine Commandos. Just on a bigger scale.

(Presuming you even want to draw real life parallels, which may or may not be appropriate)

Bien sûr, mon ami! That is exactly the thing! Stormtroopers are for attacking (the name pretty much says it) and the army is just garrison.

So even if you agree as a roleplayer, that the army DOES exist, you will meet them very rarely in game either. Because you will most likely never run into trouble on planets where only the army is garrisoned as a smuggler or anything other than crime boss thugs, and on the planets under political turmoil you'll find the stormies again.

Maybe Rogue One will shed some light on the imperial army.

Very true, especially since Edge players would probably get more in trouble with local police forces than the military. The Empire doesn't want the army distracted by menial tasks such as lawkeeping.

Personally, for the visuals, I treat the stormtrooper as the regular army trooper. And then there is the more elite version such as the 501st stormtrooper. Much like there are, for example, regular US army soldiers and then there are US army rangers. I differentiate them thusly .

Yes the visuals play an important factor here, and the fact that stormtroopers are way cooler than army troopers.

I do however use black clad naval troopers as typical security guards for ships and installations.

Pick what you believe in. Having been for and against existence of Army Troopers, I can attest there are very good arguments to support whichever side you wish to be on. It's your game.

It's all a matter of what you need, what you expect, and what "elite" means to you.

We already know current canon says:

-Stormtroopers are a significant part of the imperial military.

-Stormtroopers are used (quite well) as front line assault troops

-Stormtroopers are "fanatically loyal to the Empire and impossible to sway from the Imperial cause"

-Stormtroopers are trained and equipped to fight nearly anywhere and "the Empire has organized several specialized units, including snowtroopers and scout troopers"

-Stormtroopers are considered part of the Army.

Quoted areas are from the Databank, so it's what Lucasfilm says.

Additionally we know from the game:

-Stormtroopers have trained NCOs, as the Stormtrooper Sgt. provides bonuses to nearby stormtroopers.

By comparison the Army as we know it isn't solidified in Canon, only appearing as AT-ST drivers, officers, and some background.

-In Rebels however we do see a new non-stormtrooper uniform type that resembles the "Imperial Army" uniform fairly closely.

Noncanon sources do have the Army as being:

-Typically relegated to lower priority missions and garrison duty

-Well equipped, but not with the armor and specialty equipment you'll see in a stormtrooper unit.

-Unlike the Stormtroopers, Army troopers are just... people. They are loyal to the Empire, but (typically) not to the level of a Stormtrooper.

Additionally we know from the game:

-Unlike stormtroopers, army troopers (so far) don't have as good an NCO program, as there's no benefit generating Sgt. character.

So.... Are stormtroopers more elite then Army troopers?

Well, they have slighty better equipment, they have better training in specific missions, functions, and environments, and they have better trained NCOs.

The section on the Empire mentions that the familiar Imperial Stormtrooper is actually a member of a special forces group, under the command of the Emporer, something similar to the SS under Hitler in WWII. It also mentions that the more conventional Imperial Army does the lion's share of patrolling, pacifying and garrisoning around the Galaxy.

Yet, we don't see much of these troops in any of the movies, other than officers and the like. Anyone have a link or some info on the typical Imperial grunts and their equipment?

It's mentioned in the book but I think it was a mistake to do so. We've seen no good evidence in the movies, only the Stormtroopers. The principle cause of people thinking there must be a regular imperial army is the supposition that if the stormtroopers are elites, the regular ones must be out there. However, the entire drive of modern warfare has been to concentrate resource more in more in technology (jets, ships, missiles, tanks, surveillance) and where infantry remains, to make them more and more of an investment year on year. Air superiority changed warfare irrevocably. How much more so orbital warfare? When you have a Star Destroyer in orbit capable of bombing cities with impunity, there is no need for infantry as a primary force to win a war or battle. Instead, the role of infantry becomes urban warfare, lightning raids, maintaining order on the ground - all things that you want elite forces for, not massed rank and file.

The primary military forces of the Empire are space-based navy and armoured vehicles - flying and otherwise. Imagine the military of a society where a flying vehicle is as cheap and reliable as a ground-based truck in ours; and requires as little infrastructure (fuel, landing areas) too. That's Star Wars technology. We've already moved away from WWII style mass battalions. The US war with Iraq was settled solely by its airforce and navy (the latter mostly to support the airforce). Only when the situation moved to occupying the invaded country or conducting on the ground raids, did it move to infantry having a role (I'm discounting scouts). The US soldier of today costs many times more than the US soldier of WWII era (inflation adjusted) and by any historical standard you care to pick counts as elite soldiery both in cost and in amount of training.(1)

In short, it is entirely reasonable for the Empire to ONLY have elite infantry, and no regular infantry. There is little role for regular infantry in the mass-battle sense in a galaxy of star-destroyers and orbital bombardments. Even when we see them fighting on the ground it is "elite" style scenarios such as establishing a breach into the rebel base on Hoth or ship-boarding manoeuvres in ANH.

Those AT-AT pilots, et al. They may be part of the same imperial army structure as the stormtroopers, but they don't need to be stormtroopers. The way I see it, you have the Imperial Navy and then stormtroopers assigned to them as needed on an operational basis.

I wish FFG hadn't put that reference to a regular Imperial Army into AoR because it's unnecessary and it doesn't fit with what we see on screen. If a regular army existed, we would have seen evidence of it. And all we see are pilots. Now they may be part of an army, but they're not infantry. I see no role for a non-stormtrooper infantry, basically.

Now PLANETS might have their own regular army. That is entirely possible. After all, the political entity is an EMPIRE, not a state. That means there are many subject states within it. These will vary from having their own standing army to relying entirely on the Empire for protection. So regular armies are out there. But I don't think the Empire has one other than the stormtroopers plus vehicles / artillery.

For a long time debates on this very forum convinced me that the Stormtrooper Corps were in fact the only imperial infantry (in the new canon at the very least).

BUT, I started to read Lords of the Sith, which is part of the new Disney canon. In that book, they not only mentionned the existence of the Stormtrooper Corps (which would imply that they are, in fact, separate from something else), but they actually mention that there are other imperial soldiers, mainly used for garrison purposes on low priority or quiet worlds. The book also says that it includes conscripts and enlisted, and that they are not recognized as a threat, in comparison to the Stormtroopers. I don't know how they look, and we don't see them fight in the book per say (although I'm not entirely done as of right now), but it confirms that they do exist. I'm under the impression that the Stormtroopers are usually the troops inside the stardestroyers, conquering planets and doing all the hard missions, including garrison duties in hot zones, while the imperial army is only brought in to keep relative control when the situation has cooled downed a bit.

Bien sûr, mon ami! That is exactly the thing! Stormtroopers are for attacking (the name pretty much says it) and the army is just garrison.

So even if you agree as a roleplayer, that the army DOES exist, you will meet them very rarely in game either. Because you will most likely never run into trouble on planets where only the army is garrisoned as a smuggler or anything other than crime boss thugs, and on the planets under political turmoil you'll find the stormies again.

Maybe Rogue One will shed some light on the imperial army.

The thing is, the Empire is not a single state, it is a ruling authority over many other states. Just like the Republic which it grew out of had many member states (planets). Now many of these systems would have their own standing army to a greater or lesser extent. And these would be your garrison forces. I'm sure there are plenty of them. But the rapid, deploy-where-needed and answer-directly-to-the-Empire-not-some-planetary-governor soldiers; these are the stormtroopers, imo. For such a role you want standardized troops with quality supporting infrastructure, not piecemeal exports from a hundred different planets.

The thing with the Empire is, it won. Yes, there is a Rebel Alliance, but at the time of ANH and ESB, it's not a rival to the Empire in military terms, it's a mishmash of insurgencies and random secessionist systems. So what the Empire needs in military terms, is a powerful and very mobile navy and rapid, highly-disciplined strike forces, not big standing armies. You only get the latter when facing an outside threat of equal or greater threat.

I mean it's a fictional setting with a lot of blank areas. We can justify a regular army if we choose to. But I see little reason to do so and it fits better with the canon sources if we don't, imo.

I've found the Imperial Handbook is a good investment for fluff on the Imperial Forces.

If we excluded everything that wasn't canon from this game we'd have to throw most of it out. You don't have to use any part of Legends you don't want to but it is and should be part of this game.

And I want to add, that the entire argument alongside modern military forces is moot. STAR WARS is a space opera fantasy. It has basically nothing that has to be like in our reality. So yeah modern armies think like that, but I doubt the emperor does. He thinks of total subjugation and for that he would indeed need an army. It doesn't really matter.

We have an autistic player in our group who always comes up with realistic explanations he saw on TV or something and wants to apply it to Star Wars. Our entire group is already singing like a choir each time: "Hey! It's STAR WARS! There is no need for scientific accuracy!"

But yeah I don't really see the need for those guys to be in a scenario. So I don't really mind what you do with them. I use their stats for the fleet soldiers. They are definitely canon.

And I want to add, that the entire argument alongside modern military forces is moot. STAR WARS is a space opera fantasy. It has basically nothing that has to be like in our reality. So yeah modern armies think like that, but I doubt the emperor does. He thinks of total subjugation and for that he would indeed need an army. It doesn't really matter.

To be clear, my aim isn't to make Star Wars like our own world, my aim is that it should be internally consistent. If I were interested in the former I would be trying to downplay the presence of Star Destroyers to mitigate all the ways they make Star Wars unlike our own world. Whereas in the latter case, I am exploring why you would need an old-fashioned big regular army to invade and occupy when you can turn a city to glass from orbit. Such intimidation tactics are clearly the Empire's forte as that was the entire basis of the Death Star. Using the air superiority in our own world is just a way of illustrating the impact of such game changers on the need for a military.

As regards subjugation needing an army, that's different to it needing an infantry. Military force can be orbital (in Star Wars), air superiority, tanks, missiles, etc. Infantry are necessary for some tasks, but not for making a country surrender. Once they've done that, you send down your ambassadors and you start setting up intelligence and secret police forces...

We have an autistic player in our group who always comes up with realistic explanations he saw on TV or something and wants to apply it to Star Wars. Our entire group is already singing like a choir each time: "Hey! It's STAR WARS! There is no need for scientific accuracy!"

Scientific accuracy goes out of the window the moment you have pilots whipping their ship around in tight turns at upwards of 1,000kph without breaking their necks! The main goal necessary for many of us to enjoy things isn't scientific accuracy, but consistency. I really hope you're not suggesting it's autistic or wrong to want the setting to make sense.

But yeah I don't really see the need for those guys to be in a scenario. So I don't really mind what you do with them. I use their stats for the fleet soldiers. They are definitely canon.

There we agree. As I said in my earlier post, it's a choice and you certainly CAN make a regular Imperial Army fit into the game if you wish to. But Stormtroopers are iconic and the only infantry we've ever seen in canon, so it's disappointing not to use them.

No I am not saying it's autistic to go with consistency, though I can see how someone might get that from my example.

I was just highlighting the point that sometimes realism is in the way of consistency. In my STAR WARS world the Imp army has a place, just because I want to give the Stormies a more elite air and a feeling of being a bigger threat. That's what the army guys are around for. If the Rebel players meet them, they know the empire doesn't suspect much trouble here.

But if Stormtroopers patrol the streets, then they know the Empire means business...

No I am not saying it's autistic to go with consistency, though I can see how someone might get that from my example.

I was just highlighting the point that sometimes realism is in the way of consistency. In my STAR WARS world the Imp army has a place, just because I want to give the Stormies a more elite air and a feeling of being a bigger threat. That's what the army guys are around for. If the Rebel players meet them, they know the empire doesn't suspect much trouble here.

But if Stormtroopers patrol the streets, then they know the Empire means business...

All fair enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding. People should run their games as they wish. There is sufficient wiggle room to reasonably justify either scenario if a GM has a preference.

The thing is, the Empire is not a single state, it is a ruling authority over many other states. Just like the Republic which it grew out of had many member states (planets). Now many of these systems would have their own standing army to a greater or lesser extent. And these would be your garrison forces. I'm sure there are plenty of them. But the rapid, deploy-where-needed and answer-directly-to-the-Empire-not-some-planetary-governor soldiers; these are the stormtroopers, imo. For such a role you want standardized troops with quality supporting infrastructure, not piecemeal exports from a hundred different planets.The thing with the Empire is, it won. Yes, there is a Rebel Alliance, but at the time of ANH and ESB, it's not a rival to the Empire in military terms, it's a mishmash of insurgencies and random secessionist systems. So what the Empire needs in military terms, is a powerful and very mobile navy and rapid, highly-disciplined strike forces, not big standing armies. You only get the latter when facing an outside threat of equal or greater threat.I mean it's a fictional setting with a lot of blank areas. We can justify a regular army if we choose to. But I see little reason to do so and it fits better with the canon sources if we don't, imo.

I agree with you 100%. The stormtroopers seem to be the main infantry of the Imperial military (probably not in numbers, but certainly in importance). They're the guys on the stardestroyers, conquering new worlds, accomplishing missions, or protecting critical imperial assets. They're devoted to the Empire and uncorruptable (Lords of the Sith has a corrupt officer character, that had agents in the ranks of the army, but none in the few stormtroopers on Ryloth, the guys being too devoted to the imperial cause). They're also better equiped and better trained, and most of all, are reliable. The Empire knows exactly what the Stormtroopers can do, because they all have the same equipment and the same exact training. In contrast, like you said, I imagine the army to be quite eclectic (as I said, the book also mentions conscription, which implies rushed training and possibly a wavering devotion), which is the reason the Empire only uses them when using Stormtroopers would be a waste of assets. I do like that the army has a place in the new canon, but I also like that they're not really important in the big picture. Stormtroopers are cooler, but they're cooler while protecting the Deathstar or storming a rebel base on Hoth, and not on guard duty on some non important, back water world. In rpg terms, I like that the stormtroopers are common enough to use them often, but still special enough so that they never loose that "holy s**t stormtroopers!" aura effect on the players.

As the flower pot once said: "OH NO, NOT AGAIN!"

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/193399-imperial-forces-structure/ , not even two months.

IMHO - The Imperial Army does have some trooper mooks. We see them in the movies several times dressed in black. They are used for basic security whether it's surface installations, shipboard, or on a Death Star. For combat infantry, it's all about the Stormtrooper. My signature has a link on Imperial Uniforms which details my personal opinions.

I was once an Imperial Army Trooper believer, but have been converted by the pro-Stormtrooper-only folks here.