Lucas doesn't really state that a person that gets upset and acts out of anger is evil. That is no where near the message Lucas sent, as some of his heros got angry and acted out of anger and never were portrayed as evil (best example is Luke). And to portray it a such undercuts Anakins fall, as Anakins issue wasn't that he got angry and acted, it was what he did when he acted out of anger.

While technically true, Yoda straight up says "once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny." He also equates fear and anger to suffering and the dark side in his famous PT speech. It's a very easy logical conclusion to make that the Jedi of the PT are very narrow-minded and dogmatic when it comes to things. Obi-Wan's "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" line is a perfect encapsulation of how hypocrtical and blind the Jedi are to their own failings. Ulltimately, it was what destroyed them. Given how Mace treats him, its not surprising to think that Anakin would consider the Jedi Council distant, unapproachable, and judgmental. And let's face it,he did go to them. He went to Yoda with his prophetic dream and got handed a trite pop psychological book quote for "ancient Jedi Wisdom".

Qui-Gon was the only one who could have trained Anakin, because he saw outside the narrow confines of Jedi Dogma, and could have reached the boy, helped him understand things. Instead, he got accepted into an order who didn't want him, purely on a dying man's last wish, taught by a man who wasn't a terribly good teacher, and saddled with a prophecy everyone constantly brought up, but wouldn't explain to him. Finally, after seeing their complete stupidity in handling the "Ahsoka gets framed for murder" situation and their non-apology for hanging her out to dry, Anakin's sudden heel turn in Revenge of the Sith didn't seem so jarring anymore. I blurted out to all my friends in that scene, "God, no wonder he doesn't hesitate to kill you all."

Hyper-Emotional Young Man + Disapproving out-of-touch Elders + Warm, Open Manipulative Friend == "Are you actually SURPRISED he picked the kindly old man who always supported him over the riddle-spouting puppet and the condescending jackass who always looked at him like a mistake?"

Indeed.

Despite the melodramatic way in which the Jedi are "The Good Guys", they are in their own way as bad as the Sith when it comes to being dogmatic and blind to their own failings and imposing their unwavering vision of the universe on everyone they can.

Here's some concrete ideas:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/189059-you-build-the-character-9-the-jedi/

Actually, Yoda does not equate fear and anger to suffering. He spells out the path linking fear, anger, hate, and suffering.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

– Yoda

As for the "non apology", the Jedi Counsel actually *expressly* apologizes for their actions and decisions. The only way it's a 'non apology' is if you don't think they are sincere, and there's no evidence to support that.

Their "this was your destiny, for us to be a bunch of faithless cowards" speech probably didn't help.

Actually, Yoda does not equate fear and anger to suffering. He spells out the path linking fear, anger, hate, and suffering.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

– Yoda

As for the "non apology", the Jedi Counsel actually *expressly* apologizes for their actions and decisions. The only way it's a 'non apology' is if you don't think they are sincere, and there's no evidence to support that.

Are you talking about the way they treated Ahsoka? Oh dear, that was a real low-point for them. For a cartoon with CGI characters and limited facial expressions, the animators did a great job with that scene. Watch Ahsoka's reactions as the council members speak. Plo-koon sounds sincere in his apology. As well he might because the two of them go back to the earliest episodes. Obi Wan also is sincere, I think. But as always Obi Wan follows the party line - ever his weakspot. But watch Mace Windu attempt a ham-fisted "not our fault". You can hear it in his voice and the words he uses. And that's the moment when you can see Ahsoka cross her arms and scowl. He's treating her like a simple child, placating her and spinning her a fairy story. And you can see her distancing herself even as he speaks. Notably, iirc, Yoda doesn't actually speak except to invite her back into the order.

Lucas doesn't really state that a person that gets upset and acts out of anger is evil. That is no where near the message Lucas sent, as some of his heros got angry and acted out of anger and never were portrayed as evil (best example is Luke). And to portray it a such undercuts Anakins fall, as Anakins issue wasn't that he got angry and acted, it was what he did when he acted out of anger.

While technically true, Yoda straight up says "once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny." He also equates fear and anger to suffering and the dark side in his famous PT speech. It's a very easy logical conclusion to make that the Jedi of the PT are very narrow-minded and dogmatic when it comes to things. Obi-Wan's "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" line is a perfect encapsulation of how hypocrtical and blind the Jedi are to their own failings. Ulltimately, it was what destroyed them. Given how Mace treats him, its not surprising to think that Anakin would consider the Jedi Council distant, unapproachable, and judgmental. And let's face it,he did go to them. He went to Yoda with his prophetic dream and got handed a trite pop psychological book quote for "ancient Jedi Wisdom".

Qui-Gon was the only one who could have trained Anakin, because he saw outside the narrow confines of Jedi Dogma, and could have reached the boy, helped him understand things. Instead, he got accepted into an order who didn't want him, purely on a dying man's last wish, taught by a man who wasn't a terribly good teacher, and saddled with a prophecy everyone constantly brought up, but wouldn't explain to him. Finally, after seeing their complete stupidity in handling the "Ahsoka gets framed for murder" situation and their non-apology for hanging her out to dry, Anakin's sudden heel turn in Revenge of the Sith didn't seem so jarring anymore. I blurted out to all my friends in that scene, "God, no wonder he doesn't hesitate to kill you all."

Hyper-Emotional Young Man + Disapproving out-of-touch Elders + Warm, Open Manipulative Friend == "Are you actually SURPRISED he picked the kindly old man who always supported him over the riddle-spouting puppet and the condescending jackass who always looked at him like a mistake?"

Indeed.

Despite the melodramatic way in which the Jedi are "The Good Guys", they are in their own way as bad as the Sith when it comes to being dogmatic and blind to their own failings and imposing their unwavering vision of the universe on everyone they can.

Let me put it in a more modern context.

What do the Jedi do for apprentices? They take children too young to know family to train almost from birth.

Why do they do it? So they won't have attachments that would "tempt" them.

What do the First Order do for Stormtroopers? They take children too young to know family to train almost from birth.

What does Snoke want Kylo Ren to do as his ultimate test? Kill his father so family won't "tempt" him.

When the bad guys agree with your recruiting and interpersonal relationship policies, you're doing it wrong.

So when is a jedi a jedi? You guys know, the topic? I gave it some more thought and this is my own observation. First force emergent from Age does a decent job of representing a young to padwan status. From there the careers represent 5 different style of jedi. The specializations represent aspects of the career but are only a third of it if you combined all three then you would have a complete jedi. However, because the specializations can be cross carers you can create entirely huge variations of jedi. So emergent plus three specializations all with one completed line from first to fifth does a jedi make. That just my opinion after my extensive line on conversion.

So when is a jedi a jedi? You guys know, the topic? I gave it some more thought and this is my own observation. First force emergent from Age does a decent job of representing a young to padwan status. From there the careers represent 5 different style of jedi. The specializations represent aspects of the career but are only a third of it if you combined all three then you would have a complete jedi. However, because the specializations can be cross carers you can create entirely huge variations of jedi. So emergent plus three specializations all with one completed line from first to fifth does a jedi make. That just my opinion after my extensive line on conversion.

While a little harsh on the intro thank you for returning to the topic.

now i would think 4 specs is a bit much, to me following your train of thought the 3 specs in each career ( could sub one out for flavor) seen to work for a base line.

To be honest, I'm not sure you'd really need to have a huge number of specs. Probably two at least if you figure a Jedi Knight should be Force Rating 3 and have at least some ranks in Parry and/or Reflect, given the LS Form specs generally don't include the Force Rating talent. And at Force Rating 3, that's pretty solid odds of activating whatever Force power/effect you'd like without having to make use of dark side pips.

But at lot of the XP would be spent on skills (Lightsaber and Discipline first and foremost) and then on Force Powers, namely Enhance, Sense, and Move to get the "classic tricks" that we routinely see various Jedi Knights accomplishing.

I found this quite useful (E*** or Ama***) not having d6 or d20 stuff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Jedi-Path-by-Daniel-Wallace-Hardcover-I-send-worldwide-/371102050064?hash=item566767e710:g:ajcAAOSwBahU3Aif

Yeah, the Jedi Path has been quite useful in helping get into the mindset of a Jedi, or at least one that was raised in the Jedi Order proper.

Had one GM of mine introduce the book as a prop in a NJO-era game he was running, with my PC receiving a copy (sans margin notes) directly from Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. That was probably one of Alwyn's finest moments (the other being stopping a deranged former Inquisitor from turning Bastion into a smoldering ruin via orbital bombardment with bomb-wearing rakghouls). Character wound up passing off the book to an burgeoning Force adept in a different campaign after getting bounced into the Legacy Era, but sadly that campaign ended not long after.

I also don't think you necessarily need a FR 3. I think FR 3 is a reasonable goal for a fully trained Jedi Knight (in any era) but I think you can get away with a FR 2 depending on the character's force powers.

You don't *need* a FR 3 to do Jedi Knight force skill level for the classic Jedi powers of Sense, Foresee, Enhance, Influence or Move. The most demanding one is Move so if your concept is that the character is merely ok (or even subpar) with Move you can easily get away with a FR 2.

Going with the same principle I think you can also get away with a FR 3 for Jedi Master.

I also don't think you necessarily need a FR 3. I think FR 3 is a reasonable goal for a fully trained Jedi Knight (in any era) but I think you can get away with a FR 2 depending on the character's force powers.

You don't *need* a FR 3 to do Jedi Knight force skill level for the classic Jedi powers of Sense, Foresee, Enhance, Influence or Move. The most demanding one is Move so if your concept is that the character is merely ok (or even subpar) with Move you can easily get away with a FR 2.

Going with the same principle I think you can also get away with a FR 3 for Jedi Master.

And if you go with the interpretation of the movies that what you see on screen his the heroic moments rather than something that character can do confidently and reliably every time, then even FR2 is sufficient to do some impressive things with Move. A lot of it is about the upgrades, not the Force Rating.