The problem I have now, is that this means there is no longer a simple table to work from... you HAVE to do maths on the fly to work out how much fuel is used.

This is why I was suggesting that each ship have a standard number of fuel cells (e.g.: 50), so that fuel use per ship can be measured in cells. That makes it easier during most sessions, because you can account for fuel use like hit points or something. That way the complexity is reserved when they have to fill up the ship, calculating the cost of filling each cell at each Silhouette.

If the fuel cost has a range of 10-20cr @ Sil1 (average 15), then squaring results in cost of filling from empty:

Cost * Sil^2 (HWK-290) = 15 * (3^2) = 135cr * 50 cells = 6750cr

Cost * Sil^2 (Space Master) = 15 * (5^2) = 375cr * 50 cells =18750cr

You can get quite a few jumps and have several combat sessions before you need to tank up. Just judging from my own campaign, but this is close to in line what I've been charging. It also makes hijacking a fuel tanker pretty lucrative

I did give ships a fixed value.

Starfighers: 25

Freighters: 50

Anything larger was not covered due to differing drives.

And at 12 THOUSAND credits to fill a YT1300, my players would mutiny.. they have never had that much cash IN TOTAL since I started GMing!!

But I did write these rules to fit MY group and MY payouts.

But I still feel 12 GRAND is too much for a YT1300.

And now for something completely different:

As you, Dave, have only mentioned, but not expanded on, DIY repairs/maintenance in your booklet, I'm going to share my reflections on them. With a YYYYGG-Mechanic in the group I had to come up with something.

Based on the cost for hull trauma repair, the difficulty of damage control, and a mechanic's monthly salary I deduced the labour cost to be about 30% of the total repair cost. So, if you DIY and everything goes smoothly (or with a passive check), you'll pay 70%; in case of a check extra successes will reduce repair time by 10%, advantage/threat will decrease/increase cost by 5%, respectively. 150 cr of salary or 500 cr of repairs equal one workday for a single mechanic, using up 350 cr in parts.

As maintenance will normally require fewer parts than repairs, I doubled the labour to 60%. So a workday is good for 250 cr of maintenance (100 cr in parts).

I like that Grimmerling, but I will need to read it again for it to sink in, brains abit addled at the moment.

If/When we do update this with all this feedback, would you be prepared to work with us to expand and refine that?

(That goes for everyone who had provided feedback).

Credit will of course be given in the document.

I'd be more than happy to help in whatever way I can.

OK.

I have set up (as per Rusaks suggestion), a Google Doc with the body text copied into it, so that anyone can work ont he same source material.

If ANYONE wishes to contribute changes/developments/expanding on ideas, and would like to take part in refinding/developing this, please PM me, and I can throw you the link over.

So, I don't know if anyone is interested, but I have a spreadsheet that I created to handle the whole "fuel cost" issue and profitability of smuggling runs for my PC's. It's here .

I used the ship profiles itself to determine the Fuel Cell load. I had picked up rules for the basic fuel consumption rate of a ship in hyperspace (which presumably would be the most fuel intensive as it has the highest speed to mass index). To determine the Fuel Cell load of each starship, I used a simple design concept; that any given ship would hold enough consumables for it's intended passengers load going on it's maximum journey in hyperspace. That way, I can use the ship profiles as written to help me determine the Fuel Cells (and thus fuel efficiency) of the various starships.

A question. What would you classify a HWK-290 as? I've seen it labeled both a heavy fighter and a light freighter online.

A question. What would you classify a HWK-290 as? I've seen it labeled both a heavy fighter and a light freighter online.

My Rules are based on the Sil.

The actual description of the ship does not effect anything, I dont know the Sil off the top of my head.

I was going for simplicity when I wrote them. And I would expect to stick with them in any developments, so while it might not fit into the "bracket" of "Light Freighter" it is "of that size" (per the rules), so it would fall into the category as far as my supplement is concerned. (Simply, the size of the ship.. its bigger than a Fighter, but not a Large Cargo Hauler)

Still looking for more feedback!

For the cost of fuel I suggest the following.

Every ship has 50 fuel cells. Those cells are used up at the same ratio. One X hours of Y activity uses up one cell. That is the same for each size of ship. The cost to re-fill a cell goes up with ship size of the ship.

Base cost is 10cr so to re fill one cell on a silhouette 3 ship is 10 twice that for a silhouette 4 (20) and four times that for a sil 5 (40)

For the cost of fuel I suggest the following.

Every ship has 50 fuel cells. Those cells are used up at the same ratio. One hour of activity uses up one cell. That is the same for each size of ship. The cost to re-fill a cell goes up with ship size of the ship.

Base cost is 10cr so to re fill one cell on a silhouette 3 ship is 10 twice that for a silhouette 4 (20) and four times that for a sil 5 (40)

I believe, the number of fuel cells should be tied to the Consumables stat of the ship. What use is having food for several months, if you have to fill up your tank every other week? Therefore I'm giving a ship 5 h worth of hyperspace travel for each day of Consumables.

For the cost of fuel I suggest the following.

Every ship has 50 fuel cells. Those cells are used up at the same ratio. One hour of activity uses up one cell. That is the same for each size of ship. The cost to re-fill a cell goes up with ship size of the ship.

Base cost is 10cr so to re fill one cell on a silhouette 3 ship is 10 twice that for a silhouette 4 (20) and four times that for a sil 5 (40)

I believe, the number of fuel cells should be tied to the Consumables stat of the ship. What use is having food for several months, if you have to fill up your tank every other week? Therefore I'm giving a ship 5 h worth of hyperspace travel for each day of Consumables.

That's a good point. I suggested the base 50 cells for simplicity's sake but admit it doesn't take into consideration those ships designed to go months and years without re-fueling. Perhaps it should be more like 10 cells plus one cell per day of consumables.

VERY cool. Thanks for sharing and really nice work!

Still looking for more feedback!

Just found this the other day, it is fantastic. I'm My PCs are about to start doing some smuggling runs and this looks like it is going to be perfect.

You may not know this but maybe someone around here does, is there a more expansive chart or good way for calculating hyperspace travel? I have Fly Casual's chart, but I was wondering if there's something out there that has more planets and routes on it?

You may not know this but maybe someone around here does, is there a more expansive chart or good way for calculating hyperspace travel? I have Fly Casual's chart, but I was wondering if there's something out there that has more planets and routes on it?

I think many people swear by the Essential Atlas for charts, and while I contacted the author for details about hyperspace lanes, he replied it was such a monumental task as to be sysiphean. Given that, the most common answer I've seen around here is to make it up. I suspect this isn't the answer you wanted, sorry.

If you have a program to read an excel file, my profitability index will calculate travel times for you.

It has every planet in the Essential Atlas and factors it by relation to hyperspace routes, all currently written up ships and hyperdrive speeds, and can reduce time based off of advantage and triumph use. I posted in the thread a page or two ago, but I've updated it since then to tighten up the travel times and add newly released content from the books.

Kyla's Smuggling and Profitability Index v1. 1

If you have a program to read an excel file, my profitability index will calculate travel times for you.

It has every planet in the Essential Atlas and factors it by relation to hyperspace routes, all currently written up ships and hyperdrive speeds, and can reduce time based off of advantage and triumph use. I posted in the thread a page or two ago, but I've updated it since then to tighten up the travel times and add newly released content from the books.

Kyla's Smuggling and Profitability Index v1. 1

Awesome. Is there a user guide or beginners directions for it though?

No, but a quick run down below;

White fields require inputs, greyish fields are just data that is automatically referenced by the sheet (outputs).

Run Seg - This is merely the a number to help you keep track of each part of the journey. Generally, it's best to have a "run segment" start when the ship lifts off and end when it touches down in a port.

Craft Name - The Type of ship or, alternatively, if you have added a line on the "Data Tables" tab to be your party's craft, then it will be the ship name (see "Crosuca Gem" as an example, a YT-1300 freighter my group has). This loads the crew compliment, encumbrance rating, and hyperdrive rating for the ship to use in calculations later. Alternatively, if you use "Additional Cargo Type" as the craft, it will allow you to create a line where only the cargo bought or sold is calculated.

Crew - The number of crew you have on board. This is added to passengers to determine consumables and water used on the the run segment.

Passengers - The number of non-crew humanoids that traveled in the segment. This is added to crew to determine consumables and water used on the the run segment.

Cargo - The type of cargo you are carrying. This is used to determine the base sale price by cargo type. If no "Sale Price" is then entered, the default value will automatically calculate.

Encumbrance Loaded - The amount of cargo that is being carried (by type). This adjusts the "Encumbrance Remaining" value as the ship is loaded. This value will remain static on each line of the run segment until it is sold.

Encumbrance Sold - The amount of loaded cargo that is sold at the end of the run segment. This will then apply a positive credit towards both the "Segment Profit" and the "Total Smuggling Operation Profit" fields. The "Encumbrance Loaded" for that cargo will then be removed from the next segment (as the operation for that cargo type is done).

Sale Price - This field over-rides the sheets' calculation of the Encumbrance Sold x Average Price. Use this if there is an agreed upon price for the cargo.

Encumbrance Remaining - The remaining space you have in the ship for more cargo.

Starting Port - This is the beginning planet that the ship began this leg of the trip from. Along with the Ending Port field it determines the total distance traveled and thus the base time of travel.

Ending Port - This is the planet where the ship ended the leg of the journey. Along with the Starting Port field it determines the total distance traveled and thus the base time of travel.

Speed Used - This is a drop down to determine whether a craft used Hyperspace travel or Sublight travel to get where it's going. This tells the sheet what calculation times to use and what hyperdrive from the craft to use.

Drive Class - This will auto-populate for hyperspace travel options.

Sublight Distance - If the "Speed Used" is sublight, the distance of sublight travel must be entered. The options in the drop down represent the realistic range of Sublight travel, as traveling between systems at sublight speeds is unrealistic (the Falcon in Episode V was using a backup hyperdrive when its hyperdrive was brunt out, not sublight engines).

Advantages Used - This is the number of Advatanges used during the Astrogation roll to reduce the travel time.

Triumphs Used - This is the number of Triumphs used during the Astrogation roll to reduce the travel time.

Total Travel Time - This is the output of the time (after Adv/Triumph mods) that is required to get from the Starting Port to the Ending Port.

Fuel Cells Used - This is the total amount of fuel cells used in the travel of the run segment.

Meals Used - This is the total amount of food used in the travel of the run segment.

H2O Used - This is the total amount of water used in the travel of the run segment (between consumption and life support uses).

Days in Port - This is the total time the ship is going to remain docked at a Spaceport on the Ending Port. If the PCs land in wilderness, put a "0" in this space, as it's used for calculating the BoSS docking fees and landing permits based on the class of Port on the referenced planet.

Docking Fees - The output field for the above calculation.

Restock Fees - The cost of replacing the Meals and H2O used. Spaceports require the replacement of this per BoSS "Humanitarian Protocols" and include it in the cost of docking.

Segment Profit - The profit or loss from that given segment of travel.

Total Smuggling Operation Profit - The total profit or loss from all segments on the sheet.

The Data Tables are merely where all the crunchy numbers are represented. You can add in your own starships as you wish, just be sure not to insert whole lines to spreadsheet, just the columns "b" through "n" or else you will mess up the formulas elsewhere.

Thank you!

Also check out the “Trade Route Economics” thread at https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/216905-trade-route-economics/#entry2161086

The OP on that thread has done a lot of good work in this space.

If you have a program to read an excel file, my profitability index will calculate travel times for you.

It has every planet in the Essential Atlas and factors it by relation to hyperspace routes, all currently written up ships and hyperdrive speeds, and can reduce time based off of advantage and triumph use. I posted in the thread a page or two ago, but I've updated it since then to tighten up the travel times and add newly released content from the books.

Kyla's Smuggling and Profitability Index v1. 1

@Kyla - This sheet looks pretty good. I feel like our sheets cover down on different areas and have a lot of similarities. Maybe, we can work together to come up with an even better tool for this kind of thing if we collaborate. Something that is even more thorough, but is more user friendly and hides the majority of the data from the users so that they don't have to mess with it (unless they really want to).

Brad linked my thread above (Thanks Brad), so I won't double tap the hyperlink, but it's the Trade Route Economics one.

@RebelDave - I pulled somewhat from Op Costs to come up with my Excel sheet tool. Made sure to credit your work, but let me know if there's a better way to mention Op Costs in the sheet info, if you get a chance to check it out. Thanks.