I hereby present you with something that I and RusakRakesh have been working on for the better part of a year.

Operational Costs gives a basic breakdown and a method for tracking the everyday costs involved with running a startship, from Fuel and Maintenance to feeding the crew, be it a Starfighter, Light or Heavy freighter. (It does not go as far as covering the operation of Capital scale ships, but thats like comparing Cars, Trucks and Aircraft Carriers... totally different beasts)

They have been designed to work within all the rules presented within the FFG publications, so no adjustments or tweaks are required, and a tracking sheet is included to make tracking these costs easy.

I am fully aware that this level of detail is not intended to be covered in the core rules, and thus may not be of interest to everyone. I developed these after I wanted to include this level of detail in my game, as it is something some of my players enjoy.

I must also say a HUGE thankyou to Shay Blechman (RukashRakesh) who has helped refine, edit and organise this final product. Without his help, it wouldnt be anywhere near as refined as it is now.

Any feedback is welcome, on both the content, layout and appearance.

I hope some of you might find some use for this!

We would appreciate if anyone does use this, to give us feedback on the process and numbers, this is a v1 of the doc.
I have an artist lined up, so new and original artwork should follow sometime in the next few months (hes abit back logged), and changes may crop up based on any feedback provided. ANy contributors will be credited as Playtesters of course.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-cK7UE7hkkcTzJocVowQnJwRkk/view?usp=sharing

In addition, I hope this will stand almost as my CV or Resume. I am more than open to doing layout work for others, depending on time. size and mental health, I am more than happy to lend my efforts to others projects, I don't ask for compensation as I know fan made projects are born from passion rather than commercialism. And I am perfectly happy to work on projects non Star Wars RPG related. Keep in mind however, I am not an artist, creating images and backgrounds is not my forte, but provide me with art and graphics, words and an idea, and I can put things together

Cheers!
RD

PS: Anyone wishing to help develop this further, adding the suggestions made in this thread, please PM me for a link to a working document.

Looks great... I'm looking forward to digging in.

(and thanks for the hard work... I know how much goes into something like this)

Firstly, thank you!

I like this level of nitty gritty detail with the right group, especially as a player. I don't forsee this fitting with my current group that I run, mostly as they're relative newbs to the system and RPGs in general, so I like to keep things simpler, at least while they're getting comfortable with the system.

While killing time at work here, I noticed a couple of mis-spellings, but I'm getting calls just frequently enough to not have any noted down yet. Nothing world ending, but if I catch them again, I'll PM you the edits.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-cK7UE7hkkcTzJocVowQnJwRkk/view?usp=sharing

Yoink!

In addition, I hope this will stand almost as my CV or Resume. I am more than open to doing layout work for others, depending on time. size and mental health, I am more than happy to lend my efforts to others projects, I don't ask for compensation as I know fan made projects are born from passion rather than commercialism. And I am perfectly happy to work on projects non Star Wars RPG related. Keep in mind however, I am not an artist, creating images and backgrounds is not my forte, but provide me with art and graphics, words and an idea, and I can put things together

Cheers!

RD

I know of some projects in the works, but I don’t know if they need any help.

I’ll ping them and find out.

Firstly, thank you!

More then welcome!

And feedback is good!

And feedback is good!

Maybe you should check with people who have worked with me before on fan-produced projects.

Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it.

And feedback is good!

Maybe you should check with people who have worked with me before on fan-produced projects.

Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it.

I have no idea who you have worked with, and I wouldnt want to push myself on others. :0

But thanks!

I have no idea who you have worked with, and I wouldnt want to push myself on others. :0

For Spark of Rebellion, my first major review found 80-plus items, and the supplement was only like 96 pages long. I didn’t quite hit the average of one item per page, but I came close.

Each round of review has typically found fewer and fewer things to be corrected, but in the most recent copy I have printed off, on average every other page is dog-eared for one thing or another.

After a couple of rounds, I made enough of a pest of myself that they drafted me onto the team, and I helped set up the rpg.buzz site.

I won’t promise to provide the same level of depth of feedback for your work, but as far as I’m concerned you do now have fair warning.

I have no idea who you have worked with, and I wouldnt want to push myself on others. :0

For Spark of Rebellion, my first major review found 80-plus items, and the supplement was only like 96 pages long. I didn’t quite hit the average of one item per page, but I came close.

Each round of review has typically found fewer and fewer things to be corrected, but in the most recent copy I have printed off, on average every other page is dog-eared for one thing or another.

After a couple of rounds, I made enough of a pest of myself that they drafted me onto the team, and I helped set up the rpg.buzz site.

I won’t promise to provide the same level of depth of feedback for your work, but as far as I’m concerned you do now have fair warning.

Honestly... I'm more interested in feedback on the layout.

On the content.... well its more something i started for my own group that grew into something I could practice my layout work on, and thats the result. The 'rules' themselves are thing I expect most people wont use (not suited to their style) or use bits from (to suit their style) or change to work for them. Which is cool

Its the layouts I enjoy the most, so really that's kinda what I am hoping this advertises more than anything else.

Unless my brain starts to cooperate next year.

Honestly... I'm more interested in feedback on the layout.

On the content.... well its more something i started for my own group that grew into something I could practice my layout work on, and thats the result. The 'rules' themselves are thing I expect most people wont use (not suited to their style) or use bits from (to suit their style) or change to work for them. Which is cool

For Spark of Rebellion, my comments were primarily about typographical errors, smart versus dumb quotes, improving language, layout, and various other things that are not directly related to the actual rules themselves. It’s not like I’m the frog or that angry penguin or something — I generally know when I feel something is over or underpowered, or just feels wrong, but that’s about as far as I go on the specifics of the rules themselves. With regards to artwork, I know what I like and what I don’t like, or what “looks good” to me, but I’m not an artist.

All the other things related to producing any kind of publication, now that’s something I can sink my editorial teeth into.

Its the layouts I enjoy the most, so really that's kinda what I am hoping this advertises more than anything else.

Fair enough. Thanks again!

Honestly... I'm more interested in feedback on the layout.

On the content.... well its more something i started for my own group that grew into something I could practice my layout work on, and thats the result. The 'rules' themselves are thing I expect most people wont use (not suited to their style) or use bits from (to suit their style) or change to work for them. Which is cool

For Spark of Rebellion, my comments were primarily about typographical errors, smart versus dumb quotes, improving language, layout, and various other things that are not directly related to the actual rules themselves.

That exactly the feedback we need for Op Costs

I feel that I done a good job of helping with editing, for someone who's English isn't his mother's tongue. Certainly needs more then Dave's and my eyes and minds to make it readable and understandable. Although we tried to keep it in way of SWFFG styling, prologues and repetitive phrasing of the same thing, that tend to be.

Mentioning SoR, working with Jaspor and the rest at Rancor really improved this piece of work, especially Jaspor's inspiring production work, management an all.

This is so fantastic! I've been meaning to construct something like this, and you just saved me a ton of work!

This is so fantastic! I've been meaning to construct something like this, and you just saved me a ton of work!

Glad it might be of some use

I'd like to see some availabilities on the various costs -- perhaps tied to the grade?

What would also be useful is a spreadsheet that did the calculations for the players so all they have to do is put in a few variables (crew size, flight duration, number of jumps, etc.) and get a total bill with various line items.

I'd also like to see another table pertaining to "special fees" associated with certain groups. For example, a port might be Rebel Friendly and they'd get a 25% cost reduction. Another port might be run by the Black Sun, so there's a special "protection" surcharge on top of the fees.

If you'd like, I can probably put together a spreadsheet of that nature, but someone else would have to make it pretty as that's not really in my wheelhouse (I'm very much a back-end guy).

I'd like to see some availabilities on the various costs -- perhaps tied to the grade?

What would also be useful is a spreadsheet that did the calculations for the players so all they have to do is put in a few variables (crew size, flight duration, number of jumps, etc.) and get a total bill with various line items.

I'd also like to see another table pertaining to "special fees" associated with certain groups. For example, a port might be Rebel Friendly and they'd get a 25% cost reduction. Another port might be run by the Black Sun, so there's a special "protection" surcharge on top of the fees.

If you'd like, I can probably put together a spreadsheet of that nature, but someone else would have to make it pretty as that's not really in my wheelhouse (I'm very much a back-end guy).

A Spreadsheet would certainly be an "add on" and very welcome.

However, your ideas are interesting, and I would love to hear more, and work them into a second release!!!

PM me? and we can collaborate if you wish.

Just had a browse, fairly good supplement, nicely done. Can't say I'll be using it myself as it contradicts the methods I use, but pretty good nonetheless.

Just had a browse, fairly good supplement, nicely done. Can't say I'll be using it myself as it contradicts the methods I use, but pretty good nonetheless.

I fully expected some people to not find it useful, it goes into details the system glosses over. And I am find with that

But thank you for your kind words on the look of it

If you'd like, I can probably put together a spreadsheet of that nature, but someone else would have to make it pretty as that's not really in my wheelhouse (I'm very much a back-end guy).

A Google Docs spreadsheet would be pretty easy to put together for that sort of thing. IIRC, they have a “Gear” option that lets you download those kinds of things and run them locally, so that you can access them even if you’re not connected to the ‘net.

Speaking only for myself, I’d be inclined to go that direction instead of creating an Excel spreadsheet version which would then be likely to be difficult to import anywhere else.

Nicely laid out, and some good information, but I don't really understand the fuel cell thing. A fuel cell seems to cost a specific amount (modified by starport grade), and you use a "fuel cell"s worth of fuel for certain activities. But this doesn't seem to be tied to Silhouette at all, so the cost of, say, one hour of atmospheric flight seems to be the same regardless of whether it's a Sil4 or Sil5 or even larger ship. Undoubtedly it would cost more to keep larger tubs in the air, but these costs don't reflect that.

I would think the solution to this would be simple: every ship has a basic 50 fuel cells, and the cost of each cell depends on the starport grade * Silhouette. Extra cells could be added via Hard Points.

That exactly the feedback we need for Op Costs

I’ve already printed a copy off, and I’m going through it now.

Mentioning SoR, working with Jaspor and the rest at Rancor really improved this piece of work, especially Jaspor's inspiring production work, management an all.

Yeah, I’ve been very impressed by Jaspor and the team that he and Drathen have put together.

I’d like to see that kind of thing get more widespread, whether officially under the auspices of RPG or maybe just inspired by it.

I would think the solution to this would be simple: every ship has a basic 50 fuel cells, and the cost of each cell depends on the starport grade * Silhouette. Extra cells could be added via Hard Points.

Interesting idea.

If you think about the initial use of the word “fuel cell” in Formula One racing, that basically just meant a gas tank that was flexible and built with lots of internal structure to keep it from rupturing or exploding even in the most extreme kinds of accidents. That type of usage of the term would make a lot more sense, than using the words “fuel cell” as a stand-in for gallons or liters or other measure of liquid volume.

And if you think about the construction of larger modern aircraft, they do have a number of fuel cells that they distribute across various key parts of the vehicle. Fuel can be moved from one cell to another to help keep the aircraft center-of-gravity well-positioned, or to evacuate a leaky cell, or whatever.

This usage of the words “fuel cell” is also consistent with the description at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fuel_cell/Legends and the Canon version at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fuel_cell .

I’m not seeing anything in the “ fuels ” category that would give us a better unit of measure for fuel, however. ;(

Looks good at first glance! I'll review the content more closely soon, but nicely done. And we might take you up on the offer to help with other projects.

Mentioning SoR, working with Jaspor and the rest at Rancor really improved this piece of work, especially Jaspor's inspiring production work, management an all.

Yeah, I’ve been very impressed by Jaspor and the team that he and Drathen have put together.

I’d like to see that kind of thing get more widespread, whether officially under the auspices of RPG or maybe just inspired by it.

Awww shucks guys, thanks! It's been interesting, rewarding, and frustrating at times, but it's definitely pretty awesome when the final product comes together and is well received by the community.

Nicely laid out, and some good information, but I don't really understand the fuel cell thing. A fuel cell seems to cost a specific amount (modified by starport grade), and you use a "fuel cell"s worth of fuel for certain activities. But this doesn't seem to be tied to Silhouette at all, so the cost of, say, one hour of atmospheric flight seems to be the same regardless of whether it's a Sil4 or Sil5 or even larger ship. Undoubtedly it would cost more to keep larger tubs in the air, but these costs don't reflect that.

I would think the solution to this would be simple: every ship has a basic 50 fuel cells, and the cost of each cell depends on the starport grade * Silhouette. Extra cells could be added via Hard Points.

I like this idea, though I would have it scale a lot faster. Something like: Starport Grade * Silhouette^3. Bigger ships should be much more expensive to keep flying.

^2

I like this idea, though I would have it scale a lot faster. Something like: Starport Grade * Silhouette^3. Bigger ships should be much more expensive to keep flying.

Silhouette is already an exponential growth pattern, and with larger sizes you also get larger economies of scale. Now, those economies of scale don’t increase as fast as the Silhouette does, of course.

In the real world, it might cost say $50 to fill up a 20 gallon gas tank on a large car, but maybe $500 or even $1000 to fill up a semi-tractor trailer truck that has much, much larger tanks. Sure, their diesel fuel might be a lot less expensive than our gasoline, but they use much more of it on a regular basis due to their much longer trips and longer duty time.

So, maybe just a power of two, instead of cubed?

Squaring or cubing quickly erodes potential profit from any shipping run, and defeats the economy of scale pretty quickly as well.

Simple test case: YT-1300 (Sil4) vs Space Master (Sil5). The Space Master has almost 5 times the capacity (800 vs 165), but part of the trade off is the low speed and terrible handling. Say the fuel is 25cr per fuel cell @ Sil1. For most ships, this gives you 50 jumps, or 50 hours of flight time, which, keep in mind, isn't a lot. If you track this in your game, fuel will always be an important factor no matter what. To load a ship from empty:

Cost * Sil (YT-1300) = 25 * 50 * 4 = 5000cr

Cost * Sil (Space Master) = 25 * 50 * 5 = 6250cr

If you square that:

Cost * Sil^2 (YT-1300) = 25 * 50 * (4^2) = 20000cr

Cost * Sil^2 (Space Master) = 25 * 50 * (5^2) = 31250cr

Cost * Sil^3 (Space Master) = 25 * 50 * (5^3) = 156250cr