Barrel Roll on Large ships was eventually FAQ'd, I'm sure boosting on huge ships will be FAQ'd to either use the huge template or Leebo being banned and 'maneuver-like' actions being restricted so huge ships don't do silly things like boost or SLAM. In the mean time I would be perfectly content if my opponent wants to put Leebo on a Corvette and 'boost' using the huge template, the ion token makes it not so OP.
Automated Protocols works as intended
Right, back home again now. Can anyone think of any pilot abilities or upgrade cards that allow another ship to take a specified free action? The abilities I can think of off the top of my head just allow other ships to take free actions without specifying the action, which would mean that the huge ship would at least be limited to actions they can normally do. If there's any abilities that specify the free action ("a friendly ship can perform a free barrel roll action" for example), we are then open to the letter of the rules allowing huge ships to perform actions they were never meant to perform.
Jeez guys it's X-wing. Please don't argue the rules like Warhammer 40k forums. Yes, you are all very good at logic and interpreting the English written word. Nowstay calm and Fly Casual. Their still ironing out the Epic rules and design. Consider they've only just recently have a standard wave size in ships available for Huge so selection. This is practically still wave one. Cut eh some slack and wait for the FAQ
More seriously than my last post, I actually do hope that they FAQ the Huge Ship Boost rule to mean using the Huge Ship template, instead of FAQing Leebo to not be able to go onto Huge Ships. Being able to swing a Huge Ship into firing range- or away from opponents- is a useful tool. The opportunity costs associated with it (a precious action + energy next round) are restrictive enough that it might be a bad idea generally. However! The option should be embraced instead of rejected.
Jeez guys it's X-wing. Please don't argue the rules like Warhammer 40k forums. Yes, you are all very good at logic and interpreting the English written word. Nowstay calm and Fly Casual. Their still ironing out the Epic rules and design. Consider they've only just recently have a standard wave size in ships available for Huge so selection. This is practically still wave one. Cut eh some slack and wait for the FAQ
You're mixing up 2 completely different things here I'm afriad.
We should dissect the rules to see how they work and how they fall apart. If we don't, the bugs in the rules will potentially remain unspotted and unfixed. This does not conflict with Fly Casual however - Fly Casual just means that you will not exploit such bugs in the rules whilst gaming. This is exactly what I meant in my first post when I said that I'm fairly certain that they don't intend for what they've actually written, and as such I will limit myself to what I think the intent was rather than what the rule actually says.
In the Epic tournament rules there is an Epic Play card restrictions section. Surely Leebo will just be added there to the other restrictions of no Navigator on huge ships and Biggs' no effect on huge ships.
Possibly. It is more elegant though to ban huge ships from making boosts (or barrel rolls). That future proofs them incase some other card pops up in the future that allows it.
Just add a line about "Huge ships may not make any free action that is not printed on their action bar."
In the Epic tournament rules there is an Epic Play card restrictions section. Surely Leebo will just be added there to the other restrictions of no Navigator on huge ships and Biggs' no effect on huge ships.
Possibly. It is more elegant though to ban huge ships from making boosts (or barrel rolls). That future proofs them incase some other card pops up in the future that allows it.
Just add a line about "Huge ships may not make any free action that is not printed on their action bar."
Overly restrictive - there are a few cards with the Action header that are either Huge Ship only - or use mechanics (i.e. Energy) that only Huge Ships can use.
Huge ships aren't particularly action-efficient and don't have access to as many actions as small and large ships, so restricting future upgrades to action bar actions only limits the design space for improvements.
"Huge ships cannot perform free actions UNLESS they are equipped with an Upgrade card that allows them to, such as the "Automated Protocols" Upgrade card"
One of the members of the Back to Dials Facebook group brought this up to me:
"Leebo" crew says to "perform a free boost action." Does this mean that you can boost a Tantive or Transport?
Seems like intention is that it shouldn't. Can huge ships use the templates needed to perform a boost action (I haven't really played with them but I recall their being a special maneuver template for them).
Huge ship boost would use huge ship movement template.
I think an FAQ will be needed before we accept that ruling.
This thread is super odd. Do people actually think this is intended to work with Leebo?
That's just a fail.
RAW-wise? Leebo, Squad leaders...
****, Tantive is already OP, with it having a way to get 2 Focus token uses per turn
Letting it get free actions from lando, making it super-reactive with Engine cargo upgrade and Lee-Boost
(And I'm not even speaking about the horrible horrible idea of making a Boost like it's printed on Boost reference card)
Nonono, it's a RAW mistake. RAI it is just a card that has no FREE word. just perform a Recover\Reinforce action. nothing else.
That's just a fail.
RAW-wise? Leebo, Squad leaders...
Even with the rather clumsily written Huge Ship Free Action ruling, Squad Leader still won't work on Huge Ships.
Huge ships cannot perform free actions unless they are equipped with an Upgrade card that allows them to, such as the "Automated Protocols" Upgrade card.
That's just a fail.
RAW-wise? Leebo, Squad leaders...
Even with the rather clumsily written Huge Ship Free Action ruling, Squad Leader still won't work on Huge Ships.
Huge ships cannot perform free actions unless they are equipped with an Upgrade card that allows them to, such as the "Automated Protocols" Upgrade card.
RAW-wise the " unless they are equipped with an Upgrade card that allows them to" simply removes the prohibition to perform free actions.
Just get the PROTOCOLS OF EPIC and wow, you're now officially awesome, you can get any free action.
RAI it doesn't and shouldn't work that way.
That's just a fail.
RAW-wise? Leebo, Squad leaders...
Even with the rather clumsily written Huge Ship Free Action ruling, Squad Leader still won't work on Huge Ships.
Huge ships cannot perform free actions unless they are equipped with an Upgrade card that allows them to, such as the "Automated Protocols" Upgrade card.
RAW-wise the "unless they are equipped with an Upgrade card that allows them to" simply removes the prohibition to perform free actions.
Just get the PROTOCOLS OF EPIC and wow, you're now officially awesome, you can get any free action.
RAI it doesn't and shouldn't work that way.
Yes - point taken
And obviously it wouldn't be possible to reinforce both sections of a huge ship via a free action since no ship can perform the same action twice, right?
And obviously it wouldn't be possible to reinforce both sections of a huge ship via a free action since no ship can perform the same action twice, right?
Yes - nothing has changed in that respect
Alright, thank you.
Nevermind, I apparently haven't looked at my epic ships lately.
Edited by VanorDMThis thread is super odd. Do people actually think this is intended to work with Leebo?
No, of course it isn't INTENDED to work that way. That's why everyone has been saying "it's obviously not intended to work that way"
The problem is that it still isn't WRITTEN to not work that way.
The problem is that it still isn't WRITTEN to not work that way.
There's a couple way's they could fix it, the problem is the rule in this case was really poorly written.
You can make at least an argument that RAW by equipping Automated Protocols that the ship can perform any free action... Clearly that's not RAI, but RAI quite often means jack. I'm not sure it's a very strong argument but the rules are so poorly written it leaves room for that argument.
The rules should've said something like 'Huge ships cannot perform free actions unless they are equipped with an Upgrade card, they then can perform free actions listed on that card only " Then it would be clear RAW that squad leader won't do anything.
Then there's the issue of Leebo. That could be fixed by either simply putting Leebo on the list of upgrades huge ships can't equip, or perhaps a better fix would be to state in a FAQ that huge ships can't barrel roll or boost.
Edited by LingulaThat could be fixed by either simply putting Leebo on the list of upgrades huge ships can't equip...
The rules should've said something like 'Huge ships cannot perform free actions unless they are equipped with an Upgrade card, they then can perform free actions listed on that card only " Then it would be clear RAW that squad leader won't do anything.Then there's the issue of Leebo. That could be fixed by either simply putting Leebo on the list of upgrades huge ships can't equip, or perhaps a better fix would be to state in a FAQ that huge ships can't barrel roll or boost.The problem is that it still isn't WRITTEN to not work that way.
You think?
What the rule needs to say is
"Huge ships cannot perform free actions except for those granted by their own equipped upgrade cards." And
"Huge ships cannot perform boosts or barrel rolls." To deal with Leebo.
You think?
Yes I do. I missed your post, but yeah we both think the same thing.
After reading this whole thread...dramas dramas and here's the text from the card itself;
"Once per round, after you perform an action that is not a recover or reinforce action, you may spend 1 energy to perform a free recover or reinforce action."
Response from Frank:
Automated Protocols is a noted exception to the rule that huge ships cannot perform free actions. A huge ship equipped with Leebo cannot perform a free boost action. Huge ships cannot perform free actions granted from Squad Leader, Lando Calrissian (ship), or another huge ship performing a coordinate action.Thanks for playing,
Response from Frank:
So another case of 'Do what we mean and not what we say.'