As long as it uses the huge ship template, I don't see the problem with Leebo on a huge ship. Receive one ion token to perform boost. So basically, use an action and an energy to boost. Thinking about it in that way, I don't see Leebo as being worth it, taking his points, a crew slot, an action, and an energy to work.

Here the picture of the rulebook:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153465725303732&l=aeffe9f100

That's not public. If you right click on the picture and select "Copy Image Address", that will give you a link that can be shared with anyone.

Stupid facebook. It says that anyone can see the picture with the link I provided... anyway, I did what you said and edited my post with the new link: https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/1919432_10153465725303732_8016389071392087000_n.jpg?oh=7a119ab97fc10bd2fea0bc75dbd766bc&oe=5718EDFC

Leebo presents a problem because you could engine booster before your maneuver, do your maneuver, then perform a boost action. That is a lot of moving for a ship of that class.

Will have to wait and see how this corner case gets resolved.

Chiraneau with engine booster already allow you to do that (if you consider a Boost from a Huge Ship use the Huge Ship template and not the normal Boost).

Why do people think Leebo will be a problem he will never be on a huge ship cos he's flying the Outrider blowing ships up with his HLC

I do think they will let it go and allow it and let a Huge ship with Leebo do a 1 straight like Engine Booster and take the Ion that sticks around till next round

I interpreted this to mean that a Huge Ship must be equipped with an upgrade that provides explicit permission to perform free actions.

So emphasis on the word ALLOWS - not the word UNLESS

However - Automated protocols provides no more explicit permission for Huge Ships to perform Free Actions than Leebo does (it's implicit rather than explicit).

We know what it's supposed to mean - if FFG wanted to say that if a Huge Ship equips a card that instructs it to perform a Free Action it may now do so - they could have just said that - but they didn't (not quite) - and Leebo would be horrifically broken on Huge Ships.

So as Forgottenlore very wisely pointed out in the other thread:

We all know how it is supposed to work, so just do that.

I see no problem at all..

anybody who puts leebo on an epic ship an claims to boost with it..

there's a shovel and a nice place for you in the woods behind the house. problem solved.

violence isn't -the- solution. but -a- solution non the less.

The intent is this:

"Huge ships can provide free actions specified on upgrade cards they have equipped, limited to those actions listed in the Huge ship rules."

It was certainly screwed up.

I, personally, blame the playtesters.

The intent is this:

"Huge ships can provide free actions specified on upgrade cards they have equipped, limited to those actions listed in the Huge ship rules."

It was certainly screwed up.

I, personally, blame the playtesters.

or even more simply:

"Huge ships cannot perform free actions unless they are equipped with a Huge Ship Only Upgrade card that allows them to, such as the "Automated Protocols" Upgrade card."

The intent is this:

"Huge ships can provide free actions specified on upgrade cards they have equipped, limited to those actions listed in the Huge ship rules."

It was certainly screwed up.

I, personally, blame the playtesters.

or even more simply:

"Huge ships cannot perform free actions unless they are equipped with a Huge Ship Only Upgrade card that allows them to, such as the "Automated Protocols" Upgrade card."

You do realise that those 2 rules would be substantially different, right? The former basically says that you can only ever claim free actions from equipped upgrade cards and that they must be actions that huge ships can perform. The latter basically says that by equipping any upgrade card that provides a free action, a huge ship is now at liberty to perform any free action offered to it.

You do realise that those 2 rules would be substantially different, right? The former basically says that you can only ever claim free actions from equipped upgrade cards and that they must be actions that huge ships can perform. The latter basically says that by equipping any upgrade card that provides a free action, a huge ship is now at liberty to perform any free action offered to it.

Well, they are different, but not quite that different. The former is correct, but the latter actually limits it more in one respect (has to be a "Huge Ship Only" upgrade card), and less in another respect (doesn't have to be a "Huge ship action").

Practically speaking they're almost identical, because (a) there probably won't be non-Huge ship only upgrade cards that grant Huge ships actions, and (b) there probably won't be any Huge ship only upgrade cards that grant the equipping ship non-Huge ship actions.

The intent is this:

"Huge ships can provide free actions specified on upgrade cards they have equipped, limited to those actions listed in the Huge ship rules."

It was certainly screwed up.

I, personally, blame the playtesters.

I see what you did there. It takes honour to place the blame upon yourself. I salute you.

(I see your name listed in the playtester credits)

Clearly Huge ships can use Leebo. But also clearly, there is no Huge Ship boost mechanic. Therefore, using Leebo would cause the Huge Ship to receive an Ion Token and nothing else.

But also clearly, there is no Huge Ship boost mechanic.

Where is that rule?

But also clearly, there is no Huge Ship boost mechanic.

Where is that rule?

Show me the Huge Ship Boost Reference Card and I'll concede that there is a Huge Ship Boost. Until then, it doesn't exist.

The rules for boost don't specify any limits on the types of ships that can perform it, they just say "ship", that means any ship that gains the ability to perform the action can do it. Same as large ships and barrel rolls, if you gave a large ship the ability to barrel roll it did so in the same manner as small ships. It required rather sizable errata to change that.

Obviously that is not how it is SUPPOSED to work, but it is very important to understand the difference between what the rules actually say, and what "everyone knows" is the way they are supposed to work. There is no rule saying that a huge ship cannot perform a boost action, and there needs to be.

But also clearly, there is no Huge Ship boost mechanic.

Where is that rule?

Show me the Huge Ship Boost Reference Card and I'll concede that there is a Huge Ship Boost. Until then, it doesn't exist.

Show me the Huge Ship Target Lock Reference Card and I'll concede that there is a Huge Ship Target Lock. Until then it doesn't exist.

This thread illustrates why RAW and 'common sense' interpretations should always be considered together. You cannot go by only one way of reading the rules.

If I purely used common sense, Keyan Farlander would not be able to lose his stress if he did not roll any eyes and scum would not be affected by rebel captive. If I went purely RAW, Leebo would allow the Tantive to boost and the Raider wouldn't...well, you get the idea.

It's a bit worrying that both RAW issues came up after amended rules rather than older versions. Maybe the designers are struggling with how big the game has become.

Exce

"Huge ships cannot perform free actions UNLESS they are equipped with an Upgrade card that allows them to, such as the "Automated Protocols" Upgrade card"

One of the members of the Back to Dials Facebook group brought this up to me:
"Leebo" crew says to "perform a free boost action." Does this mean that you can boost a Tantive or Transport?

Seems like intention is that it shouldn't. Can huge ships use the templates needed to perform a boost action (I haven't really played with them but I recall their being a special maneuver template for them).

Huge ship boost would use huge ship movement template.

Except that can't be, because the boost action is defined on the boost reference card, as using the 1 straight or 1 bank template, and putting it in the ships guides. - If you allow leebo to boost a large ship, it covers an insane amount of ground.

RAW may not be working super well - but RAI is pretty clear.

RAW may not be working super well - but RAI is pretty clear.

Yes, trying to figure out what was intended is probably the way to go, but the disadvantage is that it is more difficult - I was pretty sure what was intended with the slam & bomb, but that was in fact the wrong interpretation.

Except that can't be, because the boost action is defined on the boost reference card, as using the 1 straight or 1 bank template, and putting it in the ships guides. - If you allow leebo to boost a large ship, it covers an insane amount of ground.

Disagree. The Huge ships have their own movement template, which replaces the standard movement templates in all instances when it comes to maneuvering Huge ships. They have their own 1-straight and 1-bank template, so would use them when performing a boost action. It's as simple as that.

With that in mind, Leebo actually sounds like a perfectly fair trade for a Rebel Huge ship. A temporary speed boost/course correction at the expense of (some) energy generation next turn.

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

Hello.

Automated Protocols clearly states that given the right circumstances the huge ship can perform a free recover or reinforce action.

So, no Leebo.

But Leebo states that given the right circumstances (being able to Perform an Action), the huge ship can perform a free boost action.

Since huge ships do not ever skip their Perform Action step, aren't the circumstances always right for Leebo?

Clearly poor wording on FFG's part. Of course we are waiting for Huge Ship rules to be updated so according to this rule it doesn't explain the boost mechanic for Lebo. However it does stop huge ships using the coordinate ability to give each other free actions.

They need to amend the huge Ship rules to where coordinate can only be done on large or small ships only and huge ships are restricted to 5 main actions (target lock, jam, coordinate, reinforce, recover) and actions cards but prohibits huge ships from taking focus, boost, barrel-roll, evade and cloak actions.

Hello.

Automated Protocols clearly states that given the right circumstances the huge ship can perform a free recover or reinforce action.

So, no Leebo.

But Leebo states that given the right circumstances (being able to Perform an Action), the huge ship can perform a free boost action.

Since huge ships do not ever skip their Perform Action step, aren't the circumstances always right for Leebo?

Clearly poor wording on FFG's part. Of course we are waiting for Huge Ship rules to be updated so according to this rule it doesn't explain the boost mechanic for Lebo. However it does stop huge ships using the coordinate ability to give each other free actions.

They need to amend the huge Ship rules to where coordinate can only be done on large or small ships only and huge ships are restricted to 5 main actions (target lock, jam, coordinate, reinforce, recover) and actions cards but prohibits huge ships from taking focus, boost, barrel-roll, evade and cloak actions.

In the Epic tournament rules there is an Epic Play card restrictions section. Surely Leebo will just be added there to the other restrictions of no Navigator on huge ships and Biggs' no effect on huge ships.

In the Epic tournament rules there is an Epic Play card restrictions section. Surely Leebo will just be added there to the other restrictions of no Navigator on huge ships and Biggs' no effect on huge ships.

Possibly. It is more elegant though to ban huge ships from making boosts (or barrel rolls). That future proofs them incase some other card pops up in the future that allows it.

Disagree. The Huge ships have their own movement template, which replaces the standard movement templates in all instances when it comes to maneuvering Huge ships. They have their own 1-straight and 1-bank template, so would use them when performing a boost action. It's as simple as that.

That would work if boost were classified as a maneuver, or if the rules for performing it said it acted like a maneuver, but that is not the case.

Its again a case of assuming "It's supposed to work THIS way" without any rules saying that it does.

It is pretty clear that FFG doesn't want the boost action to mix with Huge ships at all. They have already created 2 cards that functionally mimic boosting for them but are worded differently to avoid reference to the boost mechanic.

Possibly. It is more elegant though to ban huge ships from making boosts (or barrel rolls). That future proofs them incase some other card pops up in the future that allows it.

No. I;m sorry. I want my barrel rolling Raider and CR-90. I didn't know I wanted it until you mentioned it, but now I'm adding it as a free action in all cases to both ships. Let me be clear: it's a barrel roll using the _small ship_ rules.

And a 4 point cargo upgrade that gives a Huge Ship the cloaking device + ACD! Put that on a CR-90 that's running next to Roark, and... yeah. You would be able to cloak + use Automated protocols for a recover or reinforce action at PS 12 every turn.

Please? It's all I want for Christmas!