Let me lead with a few caveats: I am trying to sort this out before I get to characters, and I am deliberately avoiding some of the discussion of how ship upgrades can impact strategy here until the end.

So looking at both the original wave 1 squadrons and the wave 2 squadrons, we get the following grid (where MASQ is mean attack result for squadrons and MASH is the mean attack result for ships, in terms of expected damage):

• Name, Cost, Speed, Hull, MASQ, MASH , Notes
• A-Wing, 11, 5, 4, 1.5 , 0.75 , Counter 2
• B-Wing, 14, 2, 5, 1.5 , 1.75 , Bomber
• X-Wing, 13, 3, 5, 2.0 , 0.75 Bomber, Escort
• Y-Wing, 10, 3, 6, 1.0 , 1.00 Bomber, Heavy
• YT-1300, 13, 2, 7, 1.5 , 0.50 , Counter 1, Escort
• YT-2400, 16, 4, 6, 2.0 , 0.75 , Rogue
• HWK-290, 12, 3, 4, 1.0 , 0.50 , Counter 2, Intel
• Scurrg H-6, 16, 3, 6, 1.0 , 1.75 , Bomber, Grit, Heavy

Anti-Squadron

• Ignoring counter, the X-wing and the YT-2400 are the undisputed champs of smashing squadrons in the face.
• When you include counter and make the assumption that, for every attack you make, you will get attacked back, the A-wing performs the best (expected 2.5 damage).
• Therefore, for anti-squadron, the A-Wing, X-Wing, and YT-2400 all have arguments as to why they are the best. Additionally, all are fast enough to function as space superiority fighters.
• The second tier would be the B-Wing, the YT-1300, and the HWK (with counter assumption).

Anti-Ship

• The B-Wing and the Scurrg stand head and shoulders above everything else in terms of ship damage. Nothing else is even close.
• Y-Wings, A-Wings, and YT-2400s form the next block of anti-ship attackers.

What this means is that several ships appear in the top 2 tiers for both categories, namely the A-Wing, the YT-2400, and the B-Wing.

Of course, one of those things is not like the others, by which I mean the B-Wing is outrageously slow. Speed 2 is obviously a huge handicap, and the relative strength of the B-wing for the points becomes much less impressive when you consider that it can make it a bit more than halfway across the board on its own in a six turn game.

So what conclusions drop out of this for the vanilla squadrons on a standalone basis?

• The A-Wing now has company in the best all-around rebel ship slot, as the YT-2400 has joined it in the bracket of being at least good at everything. Additionally, the YT-2400 has rogue, which is hard to put a price on; it frees up commands for your ships (though you are acting after any squadrons given ship commands). Suffice to say, we haven't fully seen how these interactions play out yet, but I think there is a real chance that the YT-2400 becomes the go-to throw in ship for the Rebels.
• There is a real chance that lists built carefully with an MC-80 packing the Independence title and B-Wings could be terrifying. There's a lot to think about in that kind of build, but the B-Wing is actually better than the A on a point for point basis versus ships by a good margin, it's just slow as hell. This is a way around that problem, but I'm not sure how integration into a full list will work. However, this makes the B, in essence, an even better all-arounder than the A if you can overcome the speed problem...

So what conclusions drop out of this in terms of synergy?

• A-Wing still work best alone. They are faster than everything else, they want to be attacked because of counter so including escorts harms them, and they need squadron activations to go first, so one will have to plan for that. The best pairing with them is probably the YT-2400 so that the A-Wings can dive in first, engage ships, and then the YT-2400 can show up later with rogue to bat cleanup.
• The B-Wing and a single YT-1300 seems like a match made in heaven. You have an exceptionally beefy escort with counter... that is really slow. Thankfully, their slow B-wing brethren will not outpace them, so having a lone YT-1300 with a B-Wing swarm could be a good form of really annoying ablative armor.
• However, in terms of min-maxing... the best anti-squadron fighter (X-wing) and the best standalone bomber (Scurrg) also seem like a match made in heaven. The Scurrg sucks against squadrons... but the X-wing is great. The X-wing is actually pretty sub-par against ships... but the Scurrg is great. The X-wing has escort to cover the Scurrg, but the Scurrg has grit to leave once the X-wings are engaged to hit a ship. They are both the same speed and can hang together easily. I haven't tested this combination yet (and, truth be told, didn't notice how much synergy there was until doing this table), but this is another one where if the interaction is not too fiddly, it could be surprisingly mean.

So on that note: what is everyone else seeing with the new rebel squadrons so far?

Also, I will eventually add some commentary on the named pilots, but wanted to start with the things that multiples of can exist...

Edit: exploded the table, then tried to fix it.

Chocolate > vanilla.

That will be all.

Chocolate > vanilla.

That will be all.

This is objectively incorrect.

It depends on my mood.

(Sorry Rhein, I won't ignore you. List looks good, and confirms why A Wings were the clear winners of Wave 1, and will still be great in Wave 2.)

Spot on analytics, well reasoned conclusions. 10/10, would read again.

I just posted this in another thread, but here I go with my experiences with A-Wings and YT-2400s.

Well, let's see..

4x YT-2400s, 64 points, 24 hull points, 16 dice alpha, speed-4 Rogue, 4 blacks vs. ships.

6x A-Wings, 66 points, 24 hull points, 18 dice alpha, speed-5, 6 blacks vs ships.

So A-Wings have a larger alpha with greater threat range, but you will only activate 4-5 at a time unless you have say, Expanded Hangars + token on a Squadron-4 ship. I could toss virtually the same alpha with a command-4 ship if I take the YTs and those 16 dice are worth it to me. Another thing to note about the YTs vs. the A-Wings is damage distribution. Yes, the YTs stay around a bit longer per ship so they're more useful for tying things down ideally, but the A-Wings Counter 2 allows them to spread potential damage to each attacker. Also, the more dice you have per attack, the better the chances you have at taking down aces with defense tokens. That's another advantage the YTs have. The very best thing about the YTs I think is their Rogue movement, allowing me to free up commands entirely on my ships if I so choose, and being able to shoot/move so I can pressure/tie up more targets without having to be issued orders.

Like others have said, it all depends on list. For me, I'm currently enjoying the freedom and flexibility that 4 YTs give me.

I just posted this in another thread, but here I go with my experiences with A-Wings and YT-2400s.

Well, let's see..

4x YT-2400s, 64 points, 24 hull points, 16 dice alpha, speed-4 Rogue, 4 blacks vs. ships.

6x A-Wings, 66 points, 24 hull points, 18 dice alpha, speed-5, 6 blacks vs ships.

So A-Wings have a larger alpha with greater threat range, but you will only activate 4-5 at a time unless you have say, Expanded Hangars + token on a Squadron-4 ship. I could toss virtually the same alpha with a command-4 ship if I take the YTs and those 16 dice are worth it to me. Another thing to note about the YTs vs. the A-Wings is damage distribution. Yes, the YTs stay around a bit longer per ship so they're more useful for tying things down ideally, but the A-Wings Counter 2 allows them to spread potential damage to each attacker. Also, the more dice you have per attack, the better the chances you have at taking down aces with defense tokens . That's another advantage the YTs have. The very best thing about the YTs I think is their Rogue movement, allowing me to free up commands entirely on my ships if I so choose, and being able to shoot/move so I can pressure/tie up more targets without having to be issued orders.

Like others have said, it all depends on list. For me, I'm currently enjoying the freedom and flexibility that 4 YTs give me.

I think you have that backwards.

Brace is useless vs. 1 damage, so you would prefer 10 attacks at 1 die each to 1 attack at 10 dice.

Scatter is complete immunity to one attack, so again, you would prefer 10 attacks each at 1 die to 1 attack at 10 dice.

Edit: Ignoring Gallant Haven, which is its own weird kettle of fish, and should be addressed by exploding the ship with extreme prejudice rather than worrying about the squadrons...

I just posted this in another thread, but here I go with my experiences with A-Wings and YT-2400s.

Well, let's see..

4x YT-2400s, 64 points, 24 hull points, 16 dice alpha, speed-4 Rogue, 4 blacks vs. ships.

6x A-Wings, 66 points, 24 hull points, 18 dice alpha, speed-5, 6 blacks vs ships.

So A-Wings have a larger alpha with greater threat range, but you will only activate 4-5 at a time unless you have say, Expanded Hangars + token on a Squadron-4 ship. I could toss virtually the same alpha with a command-4 ship if I take the YTs and those 16 dice are worth it to me. Another thing to note about the YTs vs. the A-Wings is damage distribution. Yes, the YTs stay around a bit longer per ship so they're more useful for tying things down ideally, but the A-Wings Counter 2 allows them to spread potential damage to each attacker. Also, the more dice you have per attack, the better the chances you have at taking down aces with defense tokens . That's another advantage the YTs have. The very best thing about the YTs I think is their Rogue movement, allowing me to free up commands entirely on my ships if I so choose, and being able to shoot/move so I can pressure/tie up more targets without having to be issued orders.

Like others have said, it all depends on list. For me, I'm currently enjoying the freedom and flexibility that 4 YTs give me.

I think you have that backwards.

Brace is useless vs. 1 damage, so you would prefer 10 attacks at 1 die each to 1 attack at 10 dice.

Scatter is complete immunity to one attack, so again, you would prefer 10 attacks each at 1 die to 1 attack at 10 dice.

Edit: Ignoring Gallant Haven, which is its own weird kettle of fish, and should be addressed by exploding the ship with extreme prejudice rather than worrying about the squadrons...

3 hits and 1 accuracy is 2 damage vs. brace while locking down scatter.

do the same with A-Wings and its 1 damage.

That's the angle I'm approaching it from.

Does anyone else remember all of the hate directed at the A-Wing back in the days when squadrons were first spoiled? It seems like there were only a few of us willing to defend the A-Wing back then, or maybe it is just my imagination.

Oh, hindsight, how you make me laugh now...

I think you calculated your MASH on the X-Wing incorrectly. Each die has a potential 6 damage (2 hits, 2 crits and one double hit) so it should be .75 same as the A-Wing and YT-2400.

Otherwise though a great breakdown.

[*]There is a real chance that lists built carefully with an MC-80 packing the Independence title and B-Wings could be terrifying. There's a lot to think about in that kind of build, but the B-Wing is actually better than the A on a point for point basis versus ships by a good margin, it's just slow as hell. This is a way around that problem, but I'm not sure how integration into a full list will work. However, this makes the B, in essence, an even better all-arounder than the A if you can overcome the speed problem...

/points to recently finished Vassal tournament

Yes, Independence B-Wings are vicious little bastards.

Does anyone else remember all of the hate directed at the A-Wing back in the days when squadrons were first spoiled? It seems like there were only a few of us willing to defend the A-Wing back then, or maybe it is just my imagination.

Oh, hindsight, how you make me laugh now...

People might have been lacking appreciation for counter and speed 5. Now it seems like we have lost those early memories of the alpha strike one shot kill on TIEs or Interceptors. Let's give the reliable old x-wing some more love.

I'm all over the X-Wing.

I have 7 X-Wings, Wedge, and Jan ready to go my next gaming day.

Wedge with Flight Controllers is going to be my Anti-Dengar Alpha Striker. Because I can't resist the lure of having to borrow a die from my opponent, even though I have 2 dice packs already...

Chocolate > vanilla.

That will be all.

This is objectively incorrect.

It depends on my mood.

(Sorry Rhein, I won't ignore you. List looks good, and confirms why A Wings were the clear winners of Wave 1, and will still be great in Wave 2.)

Chocolate > vanilla.

That will be all.

This is objectively incorrect.

It depends on my mood.

(Sorry Rhein, I won't ignore you. List looks good, and confirms why A Wings were the clear winners of Wave 1, and will still be great in Wave 2.)

But I'm allergic to Chocolate.

Is it me, or do I feel that YT-2400s are basically better than the X-Wing in every way?

Same AS, more health, more speed, Rogue movement, black vs. ships, for 3 points more? I mean, I'd take that over Escort for sure.

Its the 3 Points more that breaks it for me.

That, and they're more $$ expensive to buy en masse.

Chocolate > vanilla.

That will be all.

This is objectively incorrect.

It depends on my mood.

(Sorry Rhein, I won't ignore you. List looks good, and confirms why A Wings were the clear winners of Wave 1, and will still be great in Wave 2.)

(BLARB)

But I'm allergic to Chocolate.

That's unfortunate.

I think you calculated your MASH on the X-Wing incorrectly. Each die has a potential 6 damage (2 hits, 2 crits and one double hit) so it should be .75 same as the A-Wing and YT-2400.

Otherwise though a great breakdown.

Correct - typo in my formula, good catch. Leaves us with the same problem of Scurrg and B Wing >>>>> All.

Thank you.

I think you calculated your MASH on the X-Wing incorrectly. Each die has a potential 6 damage (2 hits, 2 crits and one double hit) so it should be .75 same as the A-Wing and YT-2400.

Otherwise though a great breakdown.

Correct - typo in my formula, good catch. Leaves us with the same problem of Scurrg and B Wing >>>>> All.

Thank you.

No problem. Have you played any games with the Scurrg yet? (I haven't). Looking at the squad card I am not sure grit, +1 health, +1speed but -1 blue AS dice is worth the two points. But I have yet to play a game with anything with grit so it is hard for me to say how good it is.

Is it me, or do I feel that YT-2400s are basically better than the X-Wing in every way?

Same AS, more health, more speed, Rogue movement, black vs. ships, for 3 points more? I mean, I'd take that over Escort for sure.

It does feel that way a bit. 3 points is not a big deal when you look at 1 squadron, but it adds up quickly. Would I rather have 2 YT-2400s or 2 X-Wings and XI7s on a ship for example?

I'm also a huge fan of Jan and the regular HWK. Those 2 need some Escort around to get the most out of them. That alone will keep X-Wings in my lists.

Is it me, or do I feel that YT-2400s are basically better than the X-Wing in every way?

Same AS, more health, more speed, Rogue movement, black vs. ships, for 3 points more? I mean, I'd take that over Escort for sure.

It does feel that way a bit. 3 points is not a big deal when you look at 1 squadron, but it adds up quickly. Would I rather have 2 YT-2400s or 2 X-Wings and XI7s on a ship for example?

I'm also a huge fan of Jan and the regular HWK. Those 2 need some Escort around to get the most out of them. That alone will keep X-Wings in my lists.

I would rather have the YT-2400s because we are talking about XI7s on a ship that has to take the squadron command vs. no XI-7s but YT-2400s and a ship spamming repair commands.

The rogue keyword is what really does it.

I think you calculated your MASH on the X-Wing incorrectly. Each die has a potential 6 damage (2 hits, 2 crits and one double hit) so it should be .75 same as the A-Wing and YT-2400.

Otherwise though a great breakdown.

Correct - typo in my formula, good catch. Leaves us with the same problem of Scurrg and B Wing >>>>> All.

Thank you.

I did some similar calculations awhile back. I took one more step and divided each of your categories by the squadrons cost. Then I compared them to the average stats per points for an efficiency type rating.

<nevermind, formatting issues>

I basically got to the same conclusions that you drew, but it was still useful to look at. Overall, I find myself looking based more on the special abilities that I want. Escort, Intel, and Rogue all being very useful.

Is it me, or do I feel that YT-2400s are basically better than the X-Wing in every way?

Same AS, more health, more speed, Rogue movement, black vs. ships, for 3 points more? I mean, I'd take that over Escort for sure.

That's if you don't have anything to escort. If you have Jan, those X-Wings become rockstars. I'm not advocating for all X-Wings, but 1 or 2 definitely have a place in rebel squadron builds.

One thing that hasn't been talked about is the problem of expensive squadrons when you need a certain even number amount to slow down your ship deployment.

One reason why 8 tie fighters is good is that they've got some decent tie up ability while being cheap enough to stuff into ISD lists.

I liked having 6 squadrons in my rebels lists. At 11: I can get that for a measly 66. At 16 that's like 96 points.

Also honestly I'm NOT going to buy 6 rogues packs. Really! We shoulda gotten two RV for each pack. There was so much room in that pack.