Fix for Scyk:

Title: Scyk interceptor 0pts

This ship no longer sucks. It is teh awesomeness. Shut up and fly it. The end.

Actually, since the Scyk already has a title let's work with that and just get FFG to FAQ it to add one extra hull. Not OP, probably not enough to squeak into many tournament lists, but it's fluffy and at least the /FO doesn't laugh at it quite so hard.

Confession: I own zero Scyks.

The big problem is the generic Starvipers not getting the Virago title. There shouldn't even be a title, they should just all have those upgrade slots without it.

At 25 points, this I agree with. While I love my PS 1 Enforcers, they would be beasts with a FCS.

I think the generic Starvipers could use a point drop, but are otherwise fine. I love the elites, though. Xizor with a Z-95 swarm did me well for Regionals. If my dice hadn't gone cold in my last game, I would've made Top 16. Part of what makes Scum their own faction is that they don't have a lot of high PS pilots. That's a good thing. We are seeing a lot more interesting pilots at lower than PS 9, which is good. I'm tired of the game forcing you to take a PS 9 pilot all the time just to deal with the other PS 9 pilots you always see.

Also, Guri gives the action economy that people want in a Starviper. I don't get why people don't like Guri. You can't have all your pilots be PS 7+.

I like how people want to give the Scyk Autothrusters to fix it, but the generic Starvipers can get it and people still say it needs a boost. OK...at the prices they are at, they do need something.

I like how the Starviper can 1 bank or hard turn. That's potent.

I think the Scyk is probably just 1 pt too expensive. I'm sure it was done to stop HLC spam. The people that complain about not being able to go 1 forward are also those that put HLC's on them. Something like a title to drop the point, but not let you take HLC would be good.

The dial is not a bad dial as it can also 1 bank and 1 hard turn, which few ships can do. It's great for when you get mixed into it. Lots of people bag the TL ability, but it is actually a good option to have. I've used it on my Scyks and my Tie FO's nicely when people say there is no use. There is always that turn when you can't fire that you can grab a TL for later.

The Scyk compared to an Academy Pilot has 1 PS, ability to TL, and a shield instead of a hull point (nice for all the crits happening these days). Drop it one point and it's good to go! Generic Scyks are not bad to put one or two in a list.

I think the generic Starvipers could use a point drop, but are otherwise fine. I love the elites, though. Xizor with a Z-95 swarm did me well for Regionals. If my dice hadn't gone cold in my last game, I would've made Top 16. Part of what makes Scum their own faction is that they don't have a lot of high PS pilots. That's a good thing. We are seeing a lot more interesting pilots at lower than PS 9, which is good. I'm tired of the game forcing you to take a PS 9 pilot all the time just to deal with the other PS 9 pilots you always see.

Also, Guri gives the action economy that people want in a Starviper. I don't get why people don't like Guri. You can't have all your pilots be PS 7+.

I like how people want to give the Scyk Autothrusters to fix it, but the generic Starvipers can get it and people still say it needs a boost. OK...at the prices they are at, they do need something.

I like how the Starviper can 1 bank or hard turn. That's potent.

The Starviper is a victim of bad press. Our top X-wing players are Rebel pilots. This says NOTHING about how powerful the Empire is, or how devastating the S&V can be. We seem to agree on the one thing we would change about the PS1 generic... it should be 23 points so one could fly four with autothrusters. I know I personally wish the title wasn't unique.

I'm glad the Starviper is not popular. I win tournaments with them. No one expects them, prepares for them, or knows how to handle them. Like most ships in X-wing, you need to fly this one a few times before its true power reveals its self. There is nothing red on the dial other than the s-loops. This means it is very hard to predict where the Starviper will go. Those 1 turns are killer and often unexpected! Be brave enough to perform a 1 turn while stressed. Often this will block your opponent or put you outside of their arch.

I too am tired of the PS argument. I have never, nor will I ever, place VI on a Starviper. Practice and know the advantages of mid PS ships. Ace PS 8+ ships often become very predictable. Knowing you move first, force travel lanes. This will result (when you get good at this with Starvipers) in one of two adventitious scenarios. 1) To avoid bumping, the opponents ace moves exactly where you wanted them to and all (or most) of your ships will be getting quality shots on said ace. 2) Your opponent's ace bumps your Starviper leading to a actionless/tokenless ship. 1 or more of your ships will be able to fire upon the helpless ace.

I will say I've won games vs. Dash with my higher PS 9 Xizor. Just Xizor vs his donut hole.

IMO, HWK need no fixin.

Rebel Operative (16)

-Twin Laser Turret (6)

-Weapons Engineer (3)

x4 = 100 points

I rest my case.

The star viper aces are nice but the ps hurts them even if you need it or not since you still pay a lot of points. If they got a bit cheaper then i can accept the low ps since I will have points for some fun tricks.

On the topic of scum aces in general, dang the tlt was such a atupid idea. It negates both xisor and talonbane .

The star viper aces are nice but the ps hurts them even if you need it or not since you still pay a lot of points. If they got a bit cheaper then i can accept the low ps since I will have points for some fun tricks.

On the topic of scum aces in general, dang the tlt was such a atupid idea. It negates both xisor and talonbane .

Also, Guri gives the action economy that people want in a Starviper. I don't get why people don't like Guri. You can't have all your pilots be PS 7+.

I think it's simply that given the amount of points that are implicitly sunk into boost + barrel roll + the knife fighter dial, and the general lack of additional options/versatility available to the ship -- even with Virago there are only a couple of Systems/Illicits worth considering -- players are impelled to use it as an arc-dodger. A role which depends on PS.

You can call that a failure of imagination, but it's also fairly evident that FFG gave it all the qualities to debut as "the Scum are-dodger" and then shot it in the foot by holding to the "Scum pilots have low PS" archetype. That's a perfectly acceptable design archetype to promote, but ships need to built around it, and the Viper feels like it was build in spite of it.

Alex Davie agrees that the viper needed more greens and they over did it on the nerfs to it during play testing. I think a good upgrade for the M3A and HWK would remove primary weapon attack power for Shields. Giving the HWK 1 and M3A 2 if needed.

Also, Guri gives the action economy that people want in a Starviper. I don't get why people don't like Guri. You can't have all your pilots be PS 7+.

I think it's simply that given the amount of points that are implicitly sunk into boost + barrel roll + the knife fighter dial, and the general lack of additional options/versatility available to the ship -- even with Virago there are only a couple of Systems/Illicits worth considering -- players are impelled to use it as an arc-dodger. A role which depends on PS.

You can call that a failure of imagination, but it's also fairly evident that FFG gave it all the qualities to debut as "the Scum are-dodger" and then shot it in the foot by holding to the "Scum pilots have low PS" archetype. That's a perfectly acceptable design archetype to promote, but ships need to built around it, and the Viper feels like it was build in spite of it.

The Starvipers are 2 or 3 points over-costed, and they should have at least the illicit upgrade slot by default, and the lowest pilot skill guys should be at 2.

But they're still pretty fun. Fantasy flight doesn't adjust the cost of pilot cards outside throwing an upgrade card on them. Does anyone use the torpedo slot? a Chardaan refit style -2 points would pretty much fix em.

Actually that could be a Scum-wide upgrade.

Scum only upgrade, -1 point per ordinance on your upgrade bar

This upgrade uses up all missile and torpedo and bomb slots on your upgrade bar.

Would make a certain Firespray-31 Title more popular.

You could have a single 31 point Andrasta Mandalorian Mercenary in your list.

I'd really like to see a Starviper title that lets you fire in an auxillary rear arc, like the ship does in a couple other rpgs and I think in the book.

LunarSol, on 23 Dec 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:LunarSol, on 23 Dec 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

The Starviper mostly just needs some action economy. It wants to be the Interceptor, but lacks the Greens to abuse PTL and the PS to not need VI. Honestly, a new pilot with a more dancey ability would probably make it competitive straight away.

Starviper needs a "Fix" being it needs help. Better pilots at good price with action economy. It has bad dial a free upgrade that fixes that would work as well.

Rebel Ywings need more pilots, good ones. Rebel HWK need help. Ewing really does need a FIX.

M3A really needs overhauled to have an actual purpose. It needs Emergency Surgery not just a "fix".

The Starviper has a great dial. It has all of the 1 speed manuevers. The Segnor's Loop is fantastic for turning around while maintaining arc on things.

See, it it doesn't have green hard two turns it's automatically a bad dial. Power creep, god forbid I have to actually put thought into whether or not to Push The Limit and not just do it every single turn.

The Starviper has a great dial. It has all of the 1 speed manuevers. The Segnor's Loop is fantastic for turning around while maintaining arc on things.

See, it it doesn't have green hard two turns it's automatically a bad dial. Power creep, god forbid I have to actually put thought into whether or not to Push The Limit and not just do it every single turn.

How many Starvipers have you used in Tournaments or even won anything much with in tournaments? That ship is just floating in mediocre space with no clear identity. Off the top of my head I don't remember Starvipers being in any quality lists in last years tournaments. Im not saying Starvipers are as bad as M3As just they lack eh... purpose overall in a squad.

Generic Starvipers need a real boost.

The Starviper has a great dial. It has all of the 1 speed manuevers. The Segnor's Loop is fantastic for turning around while maintaining arc on things.

See, it it doesn't have green hard two turns it's automatically a bad dial. Power creep, god forbid I have to actually put thought into whether or not to Push The Limit and not just do it every single turn.

How many Starvipers have you used in Tournaments or even won anything much with in tournaments? That ship is just floating in mediocre space with no clear identity. Off the top of my head I don't remember Starvipers being in any quality lists in last years tournaments. Im not saying Starvipers are as bad as M3As just they lack eh... purpose overall in a squad.

Generic Starvipers need a real boost.

I took Xizor and 5 Z's to a Store Championship and beat a lot of Fat Turrets to get to the final table. Lost to my first time facing Bro Bots.

Took the same list to Regionals and beat two identical Bro Bot lists in a row. My last game had my dice turn ice cold where even my opponent said he almost felt sorry for me. If I had won that last round, I would've made Top 16.

The Starviper has a great dial. It has all of the 1 speed manuevers. The Segnor's Loop is fantastic for turning around while maintaining arc on things.

See, it it doesn't have green hard two turns it's automatically a bad dial. Power creep, god forbid I have to actually put thought into whether or not to Push The Limit and not just do it every single turn.

How many Starvipers have you used in Tournaments or even won anything much with in tournaments? That ship is just floating in mediocre space with no clear identity. Off the top of my head I don't remember Starvipers being in any quality lists in last years tournaments. Im not saying Starvipers are as bad as M3As just they lack eh... purpose overall in a squad.

Generic Starvipers need a real boost.

I agree that the Starviper is lacking. It's not the dial though.

It's a little too pricey for what it does.

The Starvipers are 2 or 3 points over-costed, and they should have at least the illicit upgrade slot by default, and the lowest pilot skill guys should be at 2.

I love my PS 1 Starvipers! They move first, force the action to where I want it, and can also be blockers.

I do wish they had at least an illicit slot though.

Would people get up in arms if FFG reviewed the price cost for every ship in the game and made changes to everything? Like what Gamesworkshop does every year when they release new rulebooks and armybooks?

As long as they don't touch things that don't need to be worked over.

Let us keep running 3 Interceptors because it is fun.

Lt. Lorir's ability shouldn't cause a stress.

If they start doing things like GW I might cry.

If they start doing things like GW I might cry.

Maybe you missed all the Asmodee = Evil Empire online sales policy threads...

I'm ok with the StarViper's cost. Its a fast maeuverable but squishier B-Wing for 3+ pts more. (I'm not that happy with FFG's interpretation of it as a knife-fighter, but its workable within the game. If I were to interprete the StarViper it would have greens in 3 turns, 4 & 5 straight speeds but reds 1 & 2 straights and 1 banks. - But this is irrelevent, FFG has mad a decision here and I'm willing to stick with it.)

For 3 points more has +2 Agility, +1 Hull, -4 Shields, -1 PS, gains Boost and loses a Systems, Cannon and Torpedo, SLoops at 3 instead of KTurn at 2, comparing the loweset cost B-Wing to the lowest cost StarViper. Excluding SLoops and KTurn (which are red on both craft), the StarViper has an extra green at 3 straight, but lhas whites where the B-Wing has reds at 4 straight, 3 banks and 1 turns. However this is outside the StarViper's faction making it harder to compare.

Comparing within S&V, the Cartel Marauder costs 5 pts less vs the Black Sun Enforcer. Differences are: +1 Agility, 3 & 1 straight green, 3 SLoop reds, torpedos, Boost, Barrel Roll in favor of the StarViper; +1 Pilot Skill, 2 green banks, 5 & 4 KTurn reds, missiles, illict in favor of the Kihraxz.

Basically for 5 points the StarViper gains:

• +1 Agility
• Boost & Barrel Roll options
• very slightly superior dial (option to go 1 straight, both ships have the same number of green and red overall)

but loses:

• Illict Upgrade slot
• Missiles vs Torpedoes (general consenus is that missiles are slightly better but is a very, very small difference)

+1 Agility and Boost for 5 points isn't a bad deal. The Illict Upgrade loss is quite noticable vs the starviper.

Here are my suggestions for StarViper "fixes" (Neither really improves it for free, but does give it more options):

Title: StarViper-M2: 0 pts: You must equip one cannon upgrade card that costs less than 3 points (paying the squad point cost as normal). Your upgrade bar gains the Illict Upgrade Slot.

Torpedo: Buzz Droid Dispenser: not free, 2 pts?: SCUM ONLY. During the Combat phase, instead of performing any attacks, you may choose 1 enemy ship at Range 1 and roll 1 attack die. On a hit or critical result, the enemy ship receives one Buzz Droid token.

Buzz Droid token: Any ship with any number of Buzz Droid tokens perform the following ability. ACTION: Roll a number of defense dice equal to the number of Buzz Droid tokens on your ship. Remove one Buzz Droid token for each Evade result you roll. (For all rules and purposes this ability is considered an ability granted from a Damage Card.) During the End Phase, a ship with one or more Buzz Droid tokens rolls a number of attack die equal to the number of Buzz Droid tokens on it. Deal one facedown Damage card for to the ship for each Hit result rolled, and one faceup Damage card for each Crit result rolled.

I've been thinking a lot recently about fixing the hawk. And the same issue keeps coming up with it not that it's useless or has no place or anything but more that it costs to much.

What if there was a mod or title or whatever that reduced it's primary weapon to 0 aND reduced the cost by what ever a balanced number would be?

I feel like it fits. It exaggerates an existing weakness to bring down the cost whilst not making it more powerful in anyway just more affordable (could be argued that means more power per point)

I mean it's a transport I kinda feel like the only weapons it should have are modifications anyway so turrets and stuff.

Anyway just a though might be silly/game breaking having a 0 attack ship but was just thinking and thought id put it out there considering the precedent of the oppisite has be set by the jumpmaster 5000.

Actually, the HWK, in universe, is an unarmed, fast maneuverable transport on par with some starfighters, not the clumsy crap it is in the game.

The HWK in game represents the Moldy Crow, an upgunned HWK.