So the scum ships that really need help are the Scyk and the StarViper, right? The Scyk more so, but I still feel the generic Starviper is missing just a little something.

HWKs are probably fine, although I wouldn't mind a generic HWK pilot who was above PS1.

So the scum ships that really need help are the Scyk and the StarViper, right? The Scyk more so, but I still feel the generic Starviper is missing just a little something.

HWKs are probably fine, although I wouldn't mind a generic HWK pilot who was above PS1.

The generic SVs need saving from being boring. The PS3 one especially

Shields are not the answer- at least not the complete answer -to fixing either the Starviper or the M3-A.

They need attack or maneuvering efficiency on top of whatever defensive improvement is added.

Some ideas.

Engine Enhancement. Modification, SV only. After you boost, you may barrel roll as a free action. After you barrel roll, you may boost as a free action. (I was actually thinking about this as a Jedi-ability but it kind of works here as well).

Networked Targeting. Modification. If another friendly ship is within range 1 of the target, you may reroll one attack die. (helps efficiency on pilots with no EPT).

The Starviper and the HWK do not need fixes. The Scyk would still suck even with a second shield.

The Starviper might not need a fix like the X-wing or TIE Adv, but it needs something. A bump like they kept giving y-wings in the way of options I think would go a long way for the Starviper. I would agree with you and others that the HWK is in a decent spot right now, at the very least people are still talking about HWK lists.

It would have been nice had the title not been unique. Had they done that, I'd be flying 3 Vipers almost every time!

The Starviper needs a little nudge. The generics are a point or two two expensive and the named pilots have cool abilities but lack PS. A couple new pilots could go a long way for helping the Starviper but I'd like to see something that would help the existing pilots and generics just a bit.

I have flown HWKs a fair bit, they normally do pretty well for me. I do think that the named pilots need a little help mostly because the ship gets so expensive when you try to utilize their abilities and synergies that it is hard to earn their points back in damage/supporting actions. The generics can hold their own with TLT + Recon Spec.

I don't think the M3A is a bad ship. The dial is actually really nice, the PS5 generics can be useful and obviously it can carry a cannon for cheap. The generics are a point to expensive for such a fragile and offensively weak ship. Carrying a cannon tends to put a target on it's back and then the fragility of the things takes center stage. Laetin and Serissu have ok abilities, but they are strange. Laetin has to evade an attack before his kicks in so you are relying on defense dice for you ability to proc and that is always a risky proposition, the lack of an EPT hurts him as well. I'm not sure about Serissu, I need to fly her in a few different squads but her ability is defensive, not offensive and X-Wing is weighted toward offensive actions. A couple new pilots with offensive minded abilities could help a lot.

I think the Syck could be easily fixed by giving a one point discount on the ship via a title and have a one or two point modification that added either a hull point or an agility die that was only compatible with the Heavy Syck title.

The Starviper needs a little nudge. The generics are a point or two two expensive and the named pilots have cool abilities but lack PS. A couple new pilots could go a long way for helping the Starviper but I'd like to see something that would help the existing pilots and generics just a bit.

I agree with this. I feel like the way to fix Guri and Xizor is to bump both their Pilot Skills by 2 without it eating up their EPT slot. I'm just not sure how to do this without a title that bumps heads with Virago.

If Guri were PS7, then VI to hit PS9 would have her see play, along with her passive focus token ability and a FCS.

If Xizor were PS9 to start with, he could take Predator or PtL and Advanced Sensors, thereby making him a real ace. Instead, Xizor just takes VI and FCS, which makes him always action starved and somewhat clunky.

Even if the cost of VI had been factored in and they had both been bumped in cost by 1 point, it still would have fixed their problems and let them see play.

Maybe there should be a non-unique StarViper title that increases Pilot Skill by 2 and grants a System Upgrade slot, but not an illicit slot. Not sure if it should cost 1pt or 2pts. Only problem is that it pretty much erases Virago for any ship that didn't really want an illicit upgrade, like the new Cloaking Device.

The Rebel Operative with TLT and Rec Spec is a solid 25 points. Jan Ors boosting Dash to a 5 dice HLC is stupid and game breaking. Kyle and Roark are a bit niche but overall the HWK post-TLT is fine IMO.

Also, the Scyk has a pretty good dial, I don't see what the issue is. Seems as though anything that doesn't have green hard 2 turn maneuvers is immediately branded as having a sh*tty dial. The Advanced's dial is decent also.

I agree that the HWK is in a decent spot post TLT. Rebel HWKs are built a little more on the "synergy" that really is losing a place in the game (my opinion but look at Squad leader, Hobbie, Dutch, Lando, and Cracken... been a minute since you have seen those names pop up here frequently hasn't it?) and thus the named pilots suffer a little outside of specific niche builds.

The M3A's dial is terrible but it cries out for a 1 straight, a five straight, and economy. The ship really needs a thoughtful fix, that I have no doubt is in the works and will be great because FFG really hasn't let us down on fixes (yet, looking at you IA.) The tie Adv dial is ok. It definitely gets a lot better with twin ion engine, like a **** load better, but it can be ran without it.

Problem is the Kihraxz would also benefit, and it's already an AMAZING ship.

Well it's like the Integrated astromech for the Scum version of the X-wing

The Starviper needs a little nudge. The generics are a point or two two expensive and the named pilots have cool abilities but lack PS. A couple new pilots could go a long way for helping the Starviper but I'd like to see something that would help the existing pilots and generics just a bit.

I agree with this. I feel like the way to fix Guri and Xizor is to bump both their Pilot Skills by 2 without it eating up their EPT slot. I'm just not sure how to do this without a title that bumps heads with Virago.

If Guri were PS7, then VI to hit PS9 would have her see play, along with her passive focus token ability and a FCS.

If Xizor were PS9 to start with, he could take Predator or PtL and Advanced Sensors, thereby making him a real ace. Instead, Xizor just takes VI and FCS, which makes him always action starved and somewhat clunky.

Even if the cost of VI had been factored in and they had both been bumped in cost by 1 point, it still would have fixed their problems and let them see play.

Maybe there should be a non-unique StarViper title that increases Pilot Skill by 2 and grants a System Upgrade slot, but not an illicit slot. Not sure if it should cost 1pt or 2pts. Only problem is that it pretty much erases Virago for any ship that didn't really want an illicit upgrade, like the new Cloaking Device.

I think giving Guri and Xizor PS7 and PS9 respectively would be a bad thing unless you are somehow removing the EPT slot. The next step is to slap VI on them for PS9 and PS11. I'm hoping the Cloaking Device helps them both out. When wave seven was being previewed I had a thought that swarms would be coming back and the average PS would come down, in a lower PS meta Guri and Xizor are fine as long as you have a plan for the odd Ace or two. But the last tourney I went to had a lot of PS9+ ships.

After thinking about it some more what I think would really help the starviper would be a way to get Evade Tokens. You would think that 3 Agility and 4H-1S would be really tough, but in my experience they tend to wear critical hits like Johnny Depp wears bracelets. You evade a hit or two but the crit goes through(this applies to Xizor as well as soon as his escort is dead.) All crits are bad, having two or three cripples a ship. Being able to get a guaranteed evade from a systems slot, modification, or support ability from another ship could go a long way.

The Rebel Operative with TLT and Rec Spec is a solid 25 points. Jan Ors boosting Dash to a 5 dice HLC is stupid and game breaking. Kyle and Roark are a bit niche but overall the HWK post-TLT is fine IMO.

Also, the Scyk has a pretty good dial, I don't see what the issue is. Seems as though anything that doesn't have green hard 2 turn maneuvers is immediately branded as having a sh*tty dial. The Advanced's dial is decent also.

I agree that the HWK is in a decent spot post TLT. Rebel HWKs are built a little more on the "synergy" that really is losing a place in the game (my opinion but look at Squad leader, Hobbie, Dutch, Lando, and Cracken... been a minute since you have seen those names pop up here frequently hasn't it?) and thus the named pilots suffer a little outside of specific niche builds.

The M3A's dial is terrible but it cries out for a 1 straight, a five straight, and economy. The ship really needs a thoughtful fix, that I have no doubt is in the works and will be great because FFG really hasn't let us down on fixes (yet, looking at you IA.) The tie Adv dial is ok. It definitely gets a lot better with twin ion engine, like a **** load better, but it can be ran without it.

I would like to disagree on the M3A's dial. Compare it to a Tie/ln, it has six green maneuvers(1 and 2 banks, 2 and 3 straights), the Tie has four. It has one banks which the Tie doesn't have but loses the three hard turns. I'll take that trade. It is a shame that it doesn't have a five straight but it does have five and three speed k-turns.

I absolutely agree that it needs a little help.

On the interceptor and StarViper matter, I'd like to see this:

Modification

At the end of the Combat Phase, if you have no focus, evade or blue target lock tokens and are not stressed, assign one focus token to your ship.

Possibly Boost restrict it like Autothrusters.

Grants some much needed action economy to boost arcdodgers without PTL, and more importantly doesn't interact with PTL. It also doesn't stack with Autothrusters, creating some build decisions.

Because it doesn't interact with PTL it encourages other EPTs. That might lead to overuse of VI, but I've found that to be a less dominating EPT than PTL on a well-suited ship.

I have flown HWKs a fair bit, they normally do pretty well for me. I do think that the named pilots need a little help mostly because the ship gets so expensive when you try to utilize their abilities and synergies that it is hard to earn their points back in damage/supporting actions. The generics can hold their own with TLT + Recon Spec.

Is that really worth it when you can get a TLT Y-Wing for a point less?

I have flown HWKs a fair bit, they normally do pretty well for me. I do think that the named pilots need a little help mostly because the ship gets so expensive when you try to utilize their abilities and synergies that it is hard to earn their points back in damage/supporting actions. The generics can hold their own with TLT + Recon Spec.

Is that really worth it when you can get a TLT Y-Wing for a point less?

I don't know yet! I have recently started running TLT Y-Wings instead of the TLT+Recon Spec HWKs. Also I've ran the R4 Agromech on the Y-wing so it is actually a point more. It was nice to consistently get 2+ hits on both TLT attacks though my opponent had amazing green dice. IIRC his Academy Tie dodged two hits from Guri, 2 hits from a Kihraxz, 3 hits from a Heavy Mangler Syck, and the first TLT shot all without spending a token. No damage on the thing until the last TLT attack.

Do you prefer you TLT Y-Wings with or without a mech? What about BTL-A4?

The Starviper needs a little nudge. The generics are a point or two two expensive and the named pilots have cool abilities but lack PS. A couple new pilots could go a long way for helping the Starviper but I'd like to see something that would help the existing pilots and generics just a bit.

I agree with this. I feel like the way to fix Guri and Xizor is to bump both their Pilot Skills by 2 without it eating up their EPT slot. I'm just not sure how to do this without a title that bumps heads with Virago.

If Guri were PS7, then VI to hit PS9 would have her see play, along with her passive focus token ability and a FCS.

If Xizor were PS9 to start with, he could take Predator or PtL and Advanced Sensors, thereby making him a real ace. Instead, Xizor just takes VI and FCS, which makes him always action starved and somewhat clunky.

Even if the cost of VI had been factored in and they had both been bumped in cost by 1 point, it still would have fixed their problems and let them see play.

Maybe there should be a non-unique StarViper title that increases Pilot Skill by 2 and grants a System Upgrade slot, but not an illicit slot. Not sure if it should cost 1pt or 2pts. Only problem is that it pretty much erases Virago for any ship that didn't really want an illicit upgrade, like the new Cloaking Device.

I think giving Guri and Xizor PS7 and PS9 respectively would be a bad thing unless you are somehow removing the EPT slot. The next step is to slap VI on them for PS9 and PS11. I'm hoping the Cloaking Device helps them both out. When wave seven was being previewed I had a thought that swarms would be coming back and the average PS would come down, in a lower PS meta Guri and Xizor are fine as long as you have a plan for the odd Ace or two. But the last tourney I went to had a lot of PS9+ ships.

After thinking about it some more what I think would really help the starviper would be a way to get Evade Tokens. You would think that 3 Agility and 4H-1S would be really tough, but in my experience they tend to wear critical hits like Johnny Depp wears bracelets. You evade a hit or two but the crit goes through(this applies to Xizor as well as soon as his escort is dead.) All crits are bad, having two or three cripples a ship. Being able to get a guaranteed evade from a systems slot, modification, or support ability from another ship could go a long way.

The Rebel Operative with TLT and Rec Spec is a solid 25 points. Jan Ors boosting Dash to a 5 dice HLC is stupid and game breaking. Kyle and Roark are a bit niche but overall the HWK post-TLT is fine IMO.

Also, the Scyk has a pretty good dial, I don't see what the issue is. Seems as though anything that doesn't have green hard 2 turn maneuvers is immediately branded as having a sh*tty dial. The Advanced's dial is decent also.

I agree that the HWK is in a decent spot post TLT. Rebel HWKs are built a little more on the "synergy" that really is losing a place in the game (my opinion but look at Squad leader, Hobbie, Dutch, Lando, and Cracken... been a minute since you have seen those names pop up here frequently hasn't it?) and thus the named pilots suffer a little outside of specific niche builds.

The M3A's dial is terrible but it cries out for a 1 straight, a five straight, and economy. The ship really needs a thoughtful fix, that I have no doubt is in the works and will be great because FFG really hasn't let us down on fixes (yet, looking at you IA.) The tie Adv dial is ok. It definitely gets a lot better with twin ion engine, like a **** load better, but it can be ran without it.

I would like to disagree on the M3A's dial. Compare it to a Tie/ln, it has six green maneuvers(1 and 2 banks, 2 and 3 straights), the Tie has four. It has one banks which the Tie doesn't have but loses the three hard turns. I'll take that trade. It is a shame that it doesn't have a five straight but it does have five and three speed k-turns.

I absolutely agree that it needs a little help.

Not having a five straight isn't that big of a deal when you have a 4 straight. Rarely has the lack of a 5 straight ever been an issue for me when flying other small bases that have a 4 straight but no 5 straight.

Having no one straight really isn't that big of a deal when you have 1 banks.

The 3 and 5 k turn spread is real nice. You have a short K turn to stay close and not fly off the map, and a 5 k turn to guarantee not bumping.

Having no 3 hard is weird and it occasionally matters but in most situations a 2 hard will do.

It has a better dial than a TIE Fighter. There, I said it. If everyone is going to consider something with a better TIE Fighter dial as having a bad dial, that just goes to show how much power creep there is.

I don't get why people think the hwk needs a fix, it's a fine ship for it's role wich is support. You shouldn't run 4 of them and expect to win a combat encounter, you should run 1-2 as support ships for other more combat powerful ships or combos. With tlt you can even get quite a nice combat presence as well if you pay the points.

Sure it's not really that easy to use in a lot of lists since it runs away with points easy and it's often more efficient to pick another strong combat ship when your only goal is to shoot down as many points in 75 min and prevent your opponent of doing the same. That's more of a problem with x-wing compedetive than the ship design, utility pilots and ships is not as valuable there as they are in casual or cinematic matches.

The scyck however is a mess, It really wants to take ptl to make the most of it's actions and to protect it's fragile frame but the dial dosen't help it get rid of the stress that well, you see it's not a "bad" dial but it's bad for this ships role. It's also meant to be a glass cannon with a huge offence and fragile defence but the ship is to fragile and action weak to mount a 2+ point cannon on it. And the lack of ept on the 2nd uniqe pilot just crushes this idea

The second thing the scyck can do is to be a cheap fighter to spam but it's too expensive and gives too little to make it worth taking over the very efficient Z-95. It also lacks the boost action so it can't do the flanking manouvers you want too. So it need either a dial fix or something for stress removal, or something to make it cheaper IMO, possible something to give it boost. A hotwired engine booster that gives boost but with some sorth of drawback would be fun and scummy.


The starviper is pretty fine as far as the aces with virago are concerned, the low pilot skill hurts since for Xisor VI is pretty much auto include when you really want to use outmanouver or pred. They did however do the same mistake as with the e-wing and defender with the generics (seems they never learn) that they got no ept and fewer customization options and too low pilots skill to cost that much points.

Something to help the generics would be nice, if it even gives just a tiny tiny help to the aces I think the starviper would be set for life.

HWK-290: · Jan Ors (25)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

· Kanan Jarrus (3)

Total 34 pts (can add wired for 1 pt if you have it spare)

I think this version of Jan is pretty good. 2 support abilities and good dmg output at range. Put her on a refused flank with her friends in the way and I feel like she would contribute a fair bit. Obviously it depends what you put her with but overall I think the HWK is viable.

You wanna fix the starviper? Follow the precedent set forth by Maarek Steele, and put Talonbane in one. Let that ridiculousness sink in for a minute. Throw on an illicit cloak and S&V has a "fair" phantom that could have 11 PS (though not so necessary without advance cloak device). The starviper isn't really a bad ship, just has lame pilots.

Want to fix the Starviper? Stop treating it like an interceptor. The Starviper is a state of the art fighter. It has the dial and agility of a TIE Fighter and the punch and protection of an X-wing.

It doesn't need PTL or VI. It doesn't even need an EPT to do what it does best, outfly opponents by staying unpredictable and taking advantage of a superior dial; even when stressed.

PS1 Starvipers excel at supporting large ships and the two unique pilots can lead a fleet to victory.

Whenever I play quad Starviper I wish I had Autothrusters. Whenever I play triple Starviper each with Autothrusters and a Z-95, I wish I had a 4th Starviper. Both variants aren't terrible, they're just 'meh'.

If I could fly 4 with 4 Autothrusters that'd be quite playable.

I'm hoping the Star Viper gets a bomber variant like in the Shadows of the Empire game. Just a title upgrade or something to give it a bomb slot.

As to how they will package it, my money is still on there not being a Scum Aces. One huge ship will be a Hutt ship, where they will fix the Scyk, and the other will be a Black Sun ship, where they will fix the Star Viper.

Rebel vets will be E-Wing + a thing

I do think they will have an Aces pack for Scum - but it might be slightly different from the rebel/imerial aces style. For one - scum has more large ships than Imperial or Rebels. When Imperial Aces was announced, the Empire had 6 ships, 4 small and 2 large (1 small and 1 large had just released); when Rebel aces as announced, the Rebels had 8 ships, 7 small and 1 large (2 small had just released). By wave 8's launch (the time I expect a Scum Ace pack), Scum will have 11 ships, 4 large and 7 small (of which 1 small and 1 large would have just released). Due to the large amount of ship out for Scum at release it is possible they will release it as a 3 model pack with 19+ upgrade cards, as opposed to a 2 model pack with 12 upgrade cards. Also there is the fact that many of their ships are Large as compared to Reb/Imps.

Of the 9 minis their representation at Worlds was something like this graded by number of players who used this ship (highest tournament position achieved by a player using at least one of the ship):

1. Aggressor (made top 16)

2. Y-Wing (made top 8)

3. HWK-290 (made top 32)

4. Kihraxz (made top 32)

5. Firespray-31 (made top 128)

6. Z-95 Headhunter (made top 64)

7. StarViper (made top 128)

8. YV-666 (made top 64)

9. M-3A Scyk (made top 128)

The list is based in the players who bothered to put their list in the List Juggler - note that the one player who fielded the M-3A Scyk, also fielded the StarViper and HWK-290 (the 3 ships mentioned in this thread ).

I don't think they will release 2 huge ships at the same time - probably stagger it over wave 9 and 10.

The Action VI looks like a good choice for the first just after Wave 9 - with the Wild Karrde as the most famous of that version; and an Interceptor refit for the more combat oriented version operated by the Black Sun and Zann Consortium. If it come in Black Sun colors, I think a chromed alt paint of the StarViper would work well paired with it.

- No - not garbage, more like solid - but lacking the competitive edge.

Got a good laugh outta this one. Old X-wings were garbage without integrated astromech,

She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts...

Lots of nice insights and responses in this thread. I do think the opinions differ a bit about which needs need a little boost (and how much of a boost/what kind of a boost)

I personally hadn't thought about the Tie/FO and Khiraxz also getting the boost from my proposed 'fix', that does make it a bit more tricky, especially for the Tie/FO (which I believe is in a good spot now).

So perhaps Scum only would be a good idea (and it would make it possible to include in a 'scum aces' pack).

I do like more personal fixes to the ships, but on the other hand, this is an easy boost and it boosts multiple ships in 1 go (I will try to say 'boost' instead of 'fix' from now on )

I don't think an extra shield on the Hawk would break it, despite it probably having a very good spot as far as stats are concerned.

Personally I do think that ships with 1 shield are a lot more chancy when it comes to crits: getting a bad crit early can cripple you by a fair bit. Especially the M3-A can blowup in 1 turn easily by just 1 ship having a good roll (and you having a bad one).

4 Starvipers would be pretty scary to face I think. But some modification that increases part of the durability or aciton economy would be nice.

I am still leaning a bit to designing something that helps multiple ships (a la extra munitions or TLT etc, that also helped multiple ships)

So if you would have to design a 'boost' for more than 1 of the mentioned ships in this thread, what would you design? Very curious to see what designs people will make

You know, I wouldn't be sad if the HWK or Scyk got the ability to regenerate their solitary shield as an action, even if only once before the card is discarded. It's a bigger deal for the Scyk, but the HWK can more easily spare the action... Hmm. Interesting thought.

Heck, that'd be kinda neat for the starviper (who would be balancing it against auto thrusters) and the kithraxz (who would need to survive the joust long enough to find the time to make the action worthwhile) to boot.

You wanna fix the starviper? Follow the precedent set forth by Maarek Steele, and put Talonbane in one. Let that ridiculousness sink in for a minute. Throw on an illicit cloak and S&V has a "fair" phantom that could have 11 PS (though not so necessary without advance cloak device). The starviper isn't really a bad ship, just has lame pilots.

Maarek Stele's ability kind of sucks in a Defender that wants to use the Defender/D title because the 2 and 3 point cannons can't get critical hits.

Starvipers are fine ships, I agree, they're just overpriced. They should have also gotten the x7 title, and Defenders should have been errataed 5 points cheaper.

The big problem is the generic Starvipers not getting the Virago title. There shouldn't even be a title, they should just all have those upgrade slots without it.

My main problem with the StarViper is that they are:

1) Poorly adapted from fluff (thats fine - let's move on)

2) Really boring with only torpedoes outside the title.

Tried em, not really my fav ship but they're ok.