I'm worried about melsminiatures now.
Space Rocks Cease & Desist
I can only talk about my first hand experience, which was they responded and fixed straight away. If others have had a less good experience I respect that.
I am honestly wondering how far it will go. I/e: I remember the GW c&d letters that cropped up. Hopefully they don't just send one to ALL creators of accessories. I say this because of the trays etc that I sell. Should I change the names? Etc.
You are not doing anything illegal, but the problem is if they do send you a cease and desist 'most' small companies will rather yield than risk a lawsuit with a gigantic company with limitless funds that will inevitably cost them money, stress and time even if they aren't doing anything wrong. Personally I'd never give them a reason, and wouldn't use any names affiliated with a specific brand.
Edited by Lord TareqA pox on both their houses.
The dates are blacked out, why?
As for the mouse and intellectual property, you think they wrote Snow White and the seven dwarves? They took it from The Brothers Grimm once copyright ran out, and now rain down unholy fire on anyone that uses the name.
As for any of their ip that is going to enter the public domain, they lobby Congress to get the laws changed. This stunts artistic expression over all. Think about the last time they came up with anything new?
And if you think, "they are only following the law", no, they aren't. Their shotgun litigation is abuse of process.
As the article states, the FB user was within their free speech rights.
Did Space Rock bogart the neb b design, yes. Did they lie to their customers and then use the cease and desist as a final excuse? The blacked out dates would kinda hint to that.
Is the mouse within their rights, in this case, yes. Are they a bully, stifling artistic expression and cultural growth, yes.
I'm worried about melsminiatures now.
Yes, that site is pretty much a giant lawsuit waiting to happen.
I'm worried about melsminiatures now.
Yes, that site is pretty much a giant lawsuit waiting to happen.
P.much
Edited by GronardIIYes, that site is pretty much a giant lawsuit waiting to happen.I'm worried about melsminiatures now.
P.much
Thankfully, I already got my space rocks off.
I think the main difference is that I'm not seeing paid advertising for Mel's on FB like I did for the Neb B model. Mel's can keep a low profile and probably avoid scorn.
I think the main difference is that I'm not seeing paid advertising for Mel's on FB like I did for the Neb B model. Mel's can keep a low profile and probably avoid scorn.
Right up until everyone keeps mentioning them on a Offical Forum of a licenced copyright holder.... oh wait......
I don't know why they used Armada models for their debris. They would have been fine with just random junk, boty in sales and not being pestered by Disney.
I think the main difference is that I'm not seeing paid advertising for Mel's on FB like I did for the Neb B model. Mel's can keep a low profile and probably avoid scorn.
DAM IT STASY! The first rule of Mel's is, don't talk about Mal's!
Thankfully, I already got my space rocks off.
BAD, bad Madaghmire!
Go to your room.
BAD, bad Madaghmire!Thankfully, I already got my space rocks off.
Go to your room.
That's how I got into this mess.
A few brief notes, as someone with actual business experience around IP issues:
- I am only surprised they did not get hit with a C&D sooner. Generic space debris is obviously not protected by any variety of IP, but the usage of the actual ships from the Star Wars universe (and, it seems, the casting of the specific FFG ships in particular) was unlikely to be a protected use in even the US, which is pretty permissive from a Fair Use perspective.
- This is a very different case than the sort of nonsense GW gets up to with attempting to claim ownership of things like "Space Marine", "Space", "Marine", and the entirety of Earth's oceans because they are filled with "Marine Life". An analogous case would, in fact, be the chinese recasters who take the literal model and make exact copies and sell them, as that's what Space Rocks was doing with the damaged ships.
- I agree with the advice to issue a chargeback for those impacted, if you can.
- Disney is going to have to protect the Star Wars IP. They paid a ton for it, so I cannot blame them for wanting to defend an investment. If you don't do this kind of thing, you do eventually begin to lose bits and pieces of your rights over time in an increasingly large landslide. With that said, if you don't like how IP law works in general, that's fine, but don't make the mistake of confining your objections to Disney in that case.
TL;DR - this seems like a smart business move by Disney, given how IP law works, and I'm only surprised it didn't happen earlier.
Edit: Let me also be clear I have nothing personal against the Space Rocks guys, nor am I claiming they did anything in bad faith. IP is complicated, and a lot of what people think "should" happen is not what actually happens when the law is involved. I suspect it's good intentions all the way around, but a classic case of conflicting wants colliding under the law.
BAD, bad Madaghmire!Thankfully, I already got my space rocks off.
Go to your room.
That's how I got into this mess.
Remind me to wash my hands after touching your models the next time we play.
Edited by ReinholtLike really, does anyone have a good explanation for why they blacked out the dates on the C&D order and removed their contact information?
Something like this:-
"Oh dear we have a C&D from Disney. We're FUBAR'd."
"Well we may as well close up shop. We were naughty boys and got caught out"
"Hang on. If we wait a month or two we could get in a few more ££/$$'s and then just shut up shop."
"Great idea. And if we post the C&D with the date blanked out, we can blame Disney - those evil b'stards!"
"Good call - lets do it"
Im no IP Lawyer, but I understand if you try to sell the same product the IP holder is selling, you shouldn't. The part I'm bothered about is selling a product NOT made and/or offered by the IP holder, ie the Space Rocks...a gdamn decoration for a GAME!
Example: Could I commission an artist to sculp a Luke Skywalker bust for me?...a likeness of me piloting a Bwing painting?...
Im no IP Lawyer, but I understand if you try to sell the same product the IP holder is selling, you shouldn't. The part I'm bothered about is selling a product NOT made and/or offered by the IP holder, ie the Space Rocks...a gdamn decoration for a GAME!
Example: Could I commission an artist to sculp a Luke Skywalker bust for me?...a likeness of me piloting a Bwing painting?...
Under US law, the answer to "can you do this" and "can you then sell these things to others" might not be the same, as an FYI.
The core issue would not be the act of creation for personal non-commercial use (which, in the context of breaking up ships to create debris for your own personal gaming table and/or you piloting a B-wing, as good examples), which are probably covered under Fair Use exemptions (assuming you defend them correctly), but rather if you then attempted to take said things and sell them to others.
It's a big step to go from "I created this thing purely for my own personal use as a creative expression" to "I am selling this to other people", both in terms of likelihood of legal sparring and ability to defend oneself if it happens.
Edited by ReinholtLooks like if you run around making noise near a sleepind dog, it'll wake up and bite you in the ass.....
This sucks, I just placed an order with them last week.
I think they were under the radar until the Neb-B model hit the internet. That generated enough interest that they got noticed.
I just contacted PayPal to get my money back. Wish I didn't have to.
I think they were under the radar until the Neb-B model hit the internet. That generated enough interest that they got noticed.
Friggin X Wing players. Always screwing things up!
I think they were under the radar until the Neb-B model hit the internet. That generated enough interest that they got noticed.
Friggin X Wing players. Always screwing things up!
Agreed! They should just play armada and love it~!
I think they were under the radar until the Neb-B model hit the internet. That generated enough interest that they got noticed.
Friggin X Wing players. Always screwing things up!
Agreed! They should just play armada and love it~!
As the good Admiral Piett said, "We don't need their scum!"
Not that I would know any X-wing players cough cough
Edited by GronardII