I've read that using TIE/FO's in formation with something like Howlrunner takes away a lot of what makes them special, which is their AMAZING movement (arguably the best dial in the game). They're not as good jousting as TIE/LN, and they don't pack the same punch point for point. TIE/FO's make GREAT discount aces, but I bought 2 Force Awakens Core Sets and a TIE/FO expansion for the ace pilots. I kinda want a reason to use them all, haha. When do you want to use generic TIE/FO's?

you can use them effectively in conjunction with the new (unreleased) Tie/D title with Vessery.

as a 3/3 split of cracksquads 3 obsidian 3 Omega

as filler if you have '15 free points'

3x Black Squadron, 3x Omega Squadron, 6x Crackshot is the list. It's such a good list lol.

You want to use them when you'd normally run TIE Fighters but have an extra 3 points. 6 Crack Squadrons is 90 points, so there you go. I wouldn't run the base 15 point one because a Crack Squadron is better for the same amount of points. Either that or you really, really need a TL capable ship for Vessery.

Howlrunner is almost always the priority, so they'll be free from her pretty quickly in my experience That re-roll is worth its weight in gold regardless, except in Zeta L's case because stress makes him stiff and Predator helps alleviate blanks

anyway, you're basically not using the generic FO while the TIe/ln could do a better job. the Tie/Ln can do a better job in every case except

1. Juke + Relay (normal Ties can't modify Juke by themselves; can't take relay)
2. You have 3 points lying around
3. Vessery wants his TLs

the upgrade from a Black Squadron crackshot to an Omega Squadron crackshot is surprisingly significant, as the dial + shield + TL gives them ridiculous durability and surprising independence. Problem is, it's just not efficient if you're running a swarm, so you basically fill in as many Ties as possible and then use leftover points to start upgrading

Juke + Relay Omegas are incredibly potent with or without Howlie. They're best levied in numbers to abuse Juke, generally in trios as you can't fit any more unless you're running four and an academy. They're highly maneuverable and surprisingly punchy + durable; great all-round ships and easily my favorite generic ever.

From Aggressors to TLTs, the Juke + Relay Omega is one of very few generics that doesn't give a crap who it's fighting so long as you've practiced flying them. Those segnors really let you get the upper hand on higher PS by darting right behind them and into really inconvenient angles that they can't reach

of course, you use the named Tie/FOs because their abilities (especially Omega L and Zeta L) are bonkers good, but that's besides the point

the only FOs I'd ever run naked are a single Epslion squaddie for filler in Vessery's squad, or Epsilon Ace for cheap PS 12(!)

4 Omega juke Comms + AP = Imperial 4bz?

They're an absolute joy to fly. Check my "Vessery Resurgance" list here to see how I run them (hint, Epsilons with Comm Relay). They fly like butter and have insane action power.

Really, only when you have points lying around? I've read that a lot of people see the TIE/FO occupy a different role than the TIE/LN, namely that of a tanky blocker due to its better maneuverability and survivability. Point for point, TIE/FO fighters actually have more health! Would something like using 3-5 of them as front-line for an HLC platform work?

I'd like to think that there are more opportunities to use the generics.

They're an absolute joy to fly. Check my "Vessery Resurgance" list here to see how I run them (hint, Epsilons with Comm Relay). They fly like butter and have insane action power.

Oh, and thanks for the list. I don't have a Defender, but I'm planning to get one when the Imperial Veterans comes out!

4 Omega juke Comms + AP = Imperial 4bz?

JJJJA(brams)

Really, only when you have points lying around? I've read that a lot of people see the TIE/FO occupy a different role than the TIE/LN, namely that of a tanky blocker due to its better maneuverability and survivability. Point for point, TIE/FO fighters actually have more health! Would something like using 3-5 of them as front-line for an HLC platform work?

I'd like to think that there are more opportunities to use the generics.

no, not only when you have points lying around

it's only when you points lying around OR you got Juke + Relay, a unique combo that, thus far, only the Tie/FO can use

22 points for Omega Squadron with Juke + Relay is incredible value that can dominate both lower PS generics and fight off higher PS aces

(technically the T-70 can use it, but only with outside help ala Jan Ors or Red Ace's ability, except those both suck since you're depending on outside help for very little gain; especially in Red Ace's case as you need r2-d6 to take an ept)

Thank you. It would be nice if they came out with a cheap 1-2pt Tech upgrade that suits the TIE/FO well.

Would you guys suggest running Howlrunner with them or no? They're a lot more independent with their built in Target Lock, dial, and can hit better if you're running Omegas with Juke so I'm not sure.

How do we think Carnor Jax and 3 Juke/relay /FO's would fly?

Thank you. It would be nice if they came out with a cheap 1-2pt Tech upgrade that suits the TIE/FO well.

Would you guys suggest running Howlrunner with them or no? They're a lot more independent with their built in Target Lock, dial, and can hit better if you're running Omegas with Juke so I'm not sure.

TL isn't something you use instead of Howlrunner, it's an option that makes chasing down fast, high priority targets much easier

basically, you only ever take locks when you're sure you're not getting shot at or getting to shoot (such as when someone, either you or your opponent, is running for the hills). Then, when battle is joined again, you can focus and have a focus + TL ready for a fully modified shot

in my experience with Juke FOs, Howlie has been great. Not only is the re-roll amazing, but the Juke FOs are a surprisingly durable wall with Relay Evade + normal action focus. Plus, she can carry crackshot to help punch through tougher enemies and she's often a priority target, which leaves your Juke FOs in that much a better shape when she dies and frees their dials up

Basically, with Howlie it's "choo! choo! Here comes the Juke train!"

And after Howlie, you get to show off

The only FO I found to not like Howlie is Zeta Leader, because his stress makes it very difficult to fly in formation (or joust). He'd much rather be flanking. Predator has alleviated dependence on Howlie and he's still flying fine alongside her now, but it was rough make when he had Juke + Relay.

Really, only when you have points lying around? I've read that a lot of people see the TIE/FO occupy a different role than the TIE/LN, namely that of a tanky blocker due to its better maneuverability and survivability. Point for point, TIE/FO fighters actually have more health! Would something like using 3-5 of them as front-line for an HLC platform work?

I'd like to think that there are more opportunities to use the generics.

That is pretty much exactly what I've used them for, pairing 3 Zeta Squadron Pilots with an HLC weilding TIE Defender.

You can also run 2 or 3 generics along with a pair of aces in the low-mid 30s. Really, there's lots of uses for the new TIE/fo. Its an excellent ship. That extra shield, the TL and segnor's loop make it far more worthwhile than a TIE/ln. I don't really care about the loss in 'jousting efficiency', frankly. I have found them to be much more useful than generic TIE/lns. YMMV.

You can also run 2 or 3 generics along with a pair of aces in the low-mid 30s. Really, there's lots of uses for the new TIE/fo. Its an excellent ship. That extra shield, the TL and segnor's loop make it far more worthwhile than a TIE/ln. I don't really care about the loss in 'jousting efficiency', frankly. I have found them to be much more useful than generic TIE/lns. YMMV.

I'll echo this. Because of the reasons blade_mercurial stated, you find that the guns tend to stay on target a lot more often than with TIE/lns. Even though their raw efficiency is lower, I find I get more out of them.

How do we think Carnor Jax and 3 Juke/relay /FO's would fly?

I... like the sound of this. It really doesn't seem like Imperials have a lot of support options when it comes to pilots aside from Jax, Howlrunner, and the Lambda pilots. Hopefully Jax would give them the ability to hit high AGI targets. I'll have to give it a try.

TL isn't something you use instead of Howlrunner, it's an option that makes chasing down fast, high priority targets much easier

Thanks for clearing some stuff up. I don't own Howlrunner, but I was seriously considering buying a TIE expansion for her especially since Imperials seem to lack support options.

Overall, I'm really glad to hear that a lot of people seem to like the TIE/FO's.

How do we think Carnor Jax and 3 Juke/relay /FO's would fly?

I've been practicing with it:

'3 Jukes and a Jerk'

3 omega pilots w/ comm relay & juke = 22 x 3

66

For the remaining 34 points, I've tried VI and PTL Jax:

VI, royal, autos & shield = 33 (giving a 1 point initiative bid) OR

Push, royal, autos & hull or stealth= 34

The VI version has its pros and cons: requires very careful flying (well any interceptor does, really). If you get caught in multiple firing arcs, Jax is pretty much dead unless you get really lucky or its R3 for autothrusters. If you manage to get behind the enemy though, PS10 means you are moving last against anything except VI Vader. And moving last with Jax is really handy to stay in that range 1 position behind your foes, denying token use. No push the limit makes Jax a little squishier against turrets, and also IG88s with HLC + FCS are killer if they catch Jax in arc. Push Jax is more durable against the heavy hitters, but has a tougher time keeping in the range 1 'safe' spot behind higher PS aces (ultimately your best bet is to use him as a blocker in those cases).

So, basically, its a cool list that has lots of potential, but its not easy to fly. When you get it working though, its extremely frustrating for your opponent, and while the Omegas are not exactly hard-hitters, if the target has no focus, Juke makes their damage output much more consistent.

You can also run 2 or 3 generics along with a pair of aces in the low-mid 30s. Really, there's lots of uses for the new TIE/fo. Its an excellent ship. That extra shield, the TL and segnor's loop make it far more worthwhile than a TIE/ln. I don't really care about the loss in 'jousting efficiency', frankly. I have found them to be much more useful than generic TIE/lns. YMMV.

Completely true.

I feel you should fly it a little different than TIEl/n's in that you get in and layer on those actions, even if you give up a shot. It seems to pay off in spades.

I continue to be surprised by how little I see people talking about Omega Squad w/Juke + Comms. Then again, I've played around with a few lists that use 3 Omegas plus a 34 point ace and I've never been 100% happy with how I finish the list out. I think the two Jax builds above are a good example of how 34 points seems to leave the ace either hitting lighter than usual or lesser in their ace hunting duty because of lower PS or mobility.

My favorite take on this is to put in Vader with VI, ATC, and prockets to make Fel, VI Poe, and PS9 Vader sweat a bit but I'm curious what others have found to work here. Or, alternatively, if 3 of these Omegas leaves too awkward a space to fill how else do you use them effectively?

(I'm looking forward to an x7 Crackshot Vessery for those 34 points whenever we get imperial veterans, but I don't want to wait that long!)

So now that the Tie/FO expansion is out and people have had a chance to try it out for themselves, how does everyone feel about the comm/juke combo on generics? When does it work and not work?