I see only two possible issues here. First, some retailers may or may not have account ts with the distributors that FFG is transitioning towards. I have worked in other lines of us in essential (bicycles, for one), and there are no one-distributor-sells-all, although there are two that are close. MAP policies and manufacturers limiting the supply chain is common in other areas. When this sort of transition happens, some retailers loose access to prodcue, while others my gain. I do not know the distribution side of gaming to have any idea how many retailers might be affected, but I bet FFG knows.

The problem will come to those handful of retailers with both an online presence and a LGS (Team Covenant comes to mind). I hope they can work something out, but I think the underlying problem is this. I suspect that FFG is going to raise the wholesale cost to the online guys much more than the 3-5% for the LGS to force the sales prices to be more uniform across the marketplace. If I am an LGS, I might give the 3-5% in exchange for the same ship that I sell for $15 bucks also sells close to $15 at shipsareus.com. The problem is accounting. If I have both an LGS and buy wholesale at price X, but also an online store and sell at price Y, how do I know that the online price ship got sold online and the LGS went over the counter? Barnes and Noble gets around this because their online and retil outlets are seperate entities under a single umbrella with a reasonable division of inventory. Most LGS with an online presence do not have this.

I am not too torn up about this. I buy most of my ships locally, but I do buy upgrade cards online. I like to run things like 7-ship swarms with FBA, but I do not want 4 Agressors. I may want to fly a Scum Hawk swarm, but do not want to buy 5 Most Wanted packs for 5 Spice Runners (I am that guy). I worry because folks who are willing to split the boxes up are the smaller guys and they probably are not going to be able to do that anymore. There is always Ebay.

Things will still be available locally and online. Some people see this as a money-grab because you no longer can save a couple of bucks per ship online. I don't see it that way. FFG has made the decision to strengthen the LGS by leveling the playing field between the LGS and online stores, and I am OK with that. The fact is that if they raised their prices 15%, people would complain, but it is not then end of the world. In this case, they will likely only raise them on line. As I recall, they seem to have held the suggested retail steady over the past few years, and they are not setting a MAP floor so that those retailers offering discounts are still free to do so.

Just my opinion. I am willing to take a wait and see approach on this and give FFG some time to work this out. There will be some winners and loosers..this is a business after all, but unless FFGS screws this up in monumental fashion, I think any changes we see at the playing table will be small.

All I take away from this thread is that I'm not worth my paycheck to you guys, thanks.

North America only? Don't care much then. .

North America only? Don't care much then. .

Yeah, being that brick'n'mortar stores is the ONLY viable way for me to get product in the first place, I don't really see this as affecting me in any way, shape or form. Except maybe make me feel slightly less bad about what I pay for it, since I won't be constantly reminded that players in the USA can get it all for half the cost!

North America only? Don't care much then. .

I don't know, it conspicuously says nothign whatsoever about non-US interests, which worries me a lot more than what they HAVE said about US interests. That would be my biggest question overall - What About Everyone Else? We may not be the biggest market for the game (I'd be interested to see figures) but we certainly ARE a market for the game, and probably a significant one, it concerns me they've not said anything at all about that.

I'm not going to pretend I read the whole thread and took time to understand all the details, eg the place where you'll usually going to find the Devil.

Instead, I'm just going to drop a few numbers. Yesterday my LGS (friendly omitted) put a new X Wing shipment on the shelves, and Rebel Aces was $39.85. Want to know what the same product cost on Amazon discount on the same day? I think you do, cause it was ten bucks.

Instead of writing a detailed post about how you need to spend fuel to get to an LGS, and how they will only have 20-30% of the range at a given time, I'll just leave it at ten bucks.

North America only? Don't care much then. .

I don't know, it conspicuously says nothign whatsoever about non-US interests, which worries me a lot more than what they HAVE said about US interests. That would be my biggest question overall - What About Everyone Else? We may not be the biggest market for the game (I'd be interested to see figures) but we certainly ARE a market for the game, and probably a significant one, it concerns me they've not said anything at all about that.

Asmodee is a huge player in Europe, they would've instituted something like that already.

So basically exactly what GW did...we lost a lot of LGS's when that happened.

And Wizkids.

What's with game compagnies hatin' on online sales?

Does anyone know if this will affect sales from the Book Depository? Their free shipping to Australia and comparatively now prices are pretty attractive.

what if you are "deployed" and can ONLY get your miniatures by APO post office? way to screw over the troops!!

So much hyperbole in this thread. You can still buy online, so can we stop with all the doomsaying about how FFG is trying to tell you what you're allowed to do or claiming that this is some kind of personal attack?

It could be clearer, sure. But so far it looks like they're trying to prevent online retailers from being able to sell at crazy low costs on a somewhat regular basis. As someone who works an entry level job, you can afford to pay what I've been paying at my local store. Hell, I've been buying X-Wing, Armada, computer parts, paint supplies, videogames, and bullets all year without any serious financial hiccups or missed payments on things like bills or rent. All despite the fact that I'm bad at math and worse at keeping track of my money. If someone as financially incompetent as I am can handle these prices then so can you.

No, you probably won't see Imperial Veterans selling for $10 or Epic ships going for $40 anymore. But you won't be forced to quit the game due to a lack of nearby game stores, either. You'll just have to pay what I've been paying. Well, adjusted for region and all. Like I said before, I've been paying LGS prices this entire time and the only time I've gone broke since starting this game was because I impulse bought a rifle after forgetting I owed like $300 on my credit card. Even then I found money for the Outrider and Decimator.

You aren't being deprived of access to X-Wing. You aren't being discriminated against. You're used to getting crazy deals from a business model that runs very low costs and now that you're probably not getting "barely profiting" prices it just feels like you're being screwed.

what if you are "deployed" and can ONLY get your miniatures by APO post office? way to screw over the troops!!

Well if big boys holding actual pew pews for a living need to play with plastic pew pews in their spare time, while away, they will find a way.

what if you are "deployed" and can ONLY get your miniatures by APO post office? way to screw over the troops!!

Well if big boys holding actual pew pews for a living need to play with plastic pew pews in their spare time, while away, they will find a way.

I dunno, combining SW with the armed forces could lead to odd things...

Yeah, this isn't saying "People who buy online must be stopped!" it's saying, "People who sell online at prices brick and mortar stores can't possibly compete with must be stopped!" Forcing online retailers to limit their discounts isn't putting more money in ANA's pockets; those retailers already paid for the stock, and had been willing to accept smaller profit margins for larger volume. That's something physical stores simply cannot do if they want to do things like keep the lights on and pay employees.

North America only? Don't care much then. .

I don't know, it conspicuously says nothign whatsoever about non-US interests, which worries me a lot more than what they HAVE said about US interests. That would be my biggest question overall - What About Everyone Else? We may not be the biggest market for the game (I'd be interested to see figures) but we certainly ARE a market for the game, and probably a significant one, it concerns me they've not said anything at all about that.

Asmodee is a huge player in Europe, they would've instituted something like that already.

In the UK, the 30/40/50% discounts the US guys get regularly from Amazon or MM simply do not exist for FFG products. 10% is pretty normal, occasionally you see 20% but that's your lot. I suspect that the US may align to this, which if you're used to 50% off then it's a hike in cost ofc, but it's hardly healthy long term for the product to have it at such deep discounts as "normal".

North America only? Don't care much then. .

I don't know, it conspicuously says nothign whatsoever about non-US interests, which worries me a lot more than what they HAVE said about US interests. That would be my biggest question overall - What About Everyone Else? We may not be the biggest market for the game (I'd be interested to see figures) but we certainly ARE a market for the game, and probably a significant one, it concerns me they've not said anything at all about that.

Asmodee is a huge player in Europe, they would've instituted something like that already.

In the UK, the 30/40/50% discounts the US guys get regularly from Amazon or MM simply do not exist for FFG products. 10% is pretty normal, occasionally you see 20% but that's your lot. I suspect that the US may align to this, which if you're used to 50% off then it's a hike in cost ofc, but it's hardly healthy long term for the product to have it at such deep discounts as "normal".

It's the same in the rest of Europe.

I'm so sick of hearing that we have to stick up for our FLGS' and basically hand them extra money. If the business model sucks and doesn't work, the business model sucks. We the consumer shouldn't throw more money at it to prop it up. Let it fail if it is going to fail and if there is a demand for something they provided (such as gaming space), something will pop up to fill the void (such as gaming cafés, game stores that rent play space or something else entirely). If the demand isn't there, then it isn't a business.

Aside from that, a bunch of Investment bankers give zero ***** if local game stores get propped up. This is a cash grab with "it will help local stores" as the side effect used for PR spin.

Well, you don't have to stick up for your FLGS. Asmodee/FFG will do it for you. .

I'm so sick of hearing that we have to stick up for our FLGS' and basically hand them extra money. If the business model sucks and doesn't work, the business model sucks. We the consumer shouldn't throw more money at it to prop it up. Let it fail if it is going to fail and if there is a demand for something they provided (such as gaming space), something will pop up to fill the void (such as gaming cafés, game stores that rent play space or something else entirely). If the demand isn't there, then it isn't a business.

Only viable in larger cities. The city I live in is large enough for an LGS to do well, but I doubt very much that it would survive as a gaming cafe. Until the concept of gaming cafes has taken a stronger hold, we're still going to need LGS' to exist to prevent a lot of these games from dying out. I only know that X-Wing even exists because I noticed it on the shelf back when I played Magic.

An LGS serves more purposes than just being a place to buy the game. Online retailers can do that specific thing better, but they are completely unable to fulfill a lot of other functions that an LGS can serve.

In the UK FFG games are distributed exclusively by Esdevium Games. At one point I had a sample price list for their products that they send out to potential clients.

As I remember that list had X-Wing products for sale at around 30% off MRSP. So a single blister came in at around the £8.36 mark. A lot of UK online retailers are selling single blister somewhere in the region of around £9.99 - £10.79, meaning that they're making a profit of somewhere in the region of £1.33 - £2.43. Which means that they have to sell a lot of individual blisters to make a reasonable amount of money. One of the most profitable X-Wing items on the list was the Core Set.

This is the same price that a bricks and mortar store gets the product for; so when they're charging £11.95 for a blister, they're only making around £3.60 per model.

Now, regardless of how they're selling the product, either through webstores or on ebay, there are costs involved. Once paypal, ebay or merchant or bank charges are deducted the amount of profit that these sellers makes diminishes.

Online sellers may, or may not have the same amount of overheads as a bricks and mortar store; however, it's becoming more apparent that a lot of the online stores and ebay sellers are actually local game shops using the internet to prop up their trade and sell more products than they can in store. Which in a perverse way means that should online sellers be restricted to a few companies, rather than support the LGS model,a move like this could actually put some of them on the edge.

Cheers

Baaa

Well, you don't have to stick up for your FLGS. Asmodee/FFG will do it for you. .

See the paragraph I edited in. It might be nice for LGS, but how many times do we have to see this same schtick to realize it isn't about helping the LGS at all? They want to increase profit. This is a way for them to do so with some spin to make it look better.

Well, you don't have to stick up for your FLGS. Asmodee/FFG will do it for you. .

See the paragraph I edited in. It might be nice for LGS, but how many times do we have to see this same schtick to realize it isn't about helping the LGS at all? They want to increase profit. This is a way for them to do so with some spin to make it look better.

If it helps the game stores in the process, what's wrong with that?

I know MajorJuggler suggested buying online and handing the store the difference in cash, but that is not as good in the long run as a store is also judged by its sales.

I'm so sick of hearing that we have to stick up for our FLGS' and basically hand them extra money. If the business model sucks and doesn't work, the business model sucks. We the consumer shouldn't throw more money at it to prop it up. Let it fail if it is going to fail and if there is a demand for something they provided (such as gaming space), something will pop up to fill the void (such as gaming cafés, game stores that rent play space or something else entirely). If the demand isn't there, then it isn't a business.

Only viable in larger cities. The city I live in is large enough for an LGS to do well, but I doubt very much that it would survive as a gaming cafe. Until the concept of gaming cafes has taken a stronger hold, we're still going to need LGS' to exist to prevent a lot of these games from dying out. I only know that X-Wing even exists because I noticed it on the shelf back when I played Magic.

An LGS serves more purposes than just being a place to buy the game. Online retailers can do that specific thing better, but they are completely unable to fulfill a lot of other functions that an LGS can serve.

Well, you don't have to stick up for your FLGS. Asmodee/FFG will do it for you. .

See the paragraph I edited in. It might be nice for LGS, but how many times do we have to see this same schtick to realize it isn't about helping the LGS at all? They want to increase profit. This is a way for them to do so with some spin to make it look better.

If it helps the game stores in the process, what's wrong with that?

I know MajorJuggler suggested buying online and handing the store the difference in cash, but that is not as good in the long run as a store is also judged by its sales.

Like.. what the hell did y'all do before 30% discounts for no reason were a thing? Pay full price or just cry a lot?

Why do you deserve Imp Aces for $10?

It's like fast fashion all over again. Next it'll be kids in Bangladesh getting fingers cut off in the x-wing stamp so we can have disposable $5 minis.

Give your heads a shake.